Hokuseiho Out- Hakuho Demoted - Miyagino-beya Closing

[Kaninoyama 1,866]

With ex-Asahifuji retiring, it will be an interesting dynamic now at Isegahama-beya with the two Yokozuna peers remaining and no one left to "teach Miyagino how to be a proper oyakata."

Doesn't seem like a situation that can be maintained indefinitely. 

[Akinomaki 41,179]

The heya will be down from 19 members who were absorbed to 9 with intai 9&10 after the Natsu basho - the question is: where will Kusano go? The fact that he still has no Isegahama shikona hints that he may want to go where he was scouted for.

On 08/04/2024 at 13:52, Akinomaki said:

The fun begins, another big name, now as uchi-deshi for Hakuho: Kusano joins the heya of Kiho.

On 08/04/2024 at 13:36, Akinomaki said:

On 23/02/2024 at 15:00, Akinomaki said:

Kusano today in Kumamoto said he'll join ozumo later on and aim for ozeki and yokozuna, the heya is undetermined yet - it won't be Miyagino, but maybe he had thought about joining there till yesterday

Well, it will be Isegahama, he had planned to join where Kiho is member, his friend since nursery school. The NSK today acknowledged the ms60TD qualification for student yokozuna Naoya Kusano 草野直哉 (185cm, 160kg). He was seen today at the heya with his luggage, like the others who moved there.

Kiho - back to Kawazoe - hasn't quit yet

[Asashosakari 19,941]

38 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

With ex-Asahifuji retiring, it will be an interesting dynamic now at Isegahama-beya with the two Yokozuna peers remaining and no one left to "teach Miyagino how to be a proper oyakata."

Or Isegahama-oyakata will have a lot more time to do the teaching when he's no longer running a heya at the same time... I've always found it a bit odd how it's been taken as self-evident by most fans that this whole "education of Hakuho" thing cannot possibly extend beyond July 2025. Yeah, normally it requires a shisho <-> affiliated oyakata relationship for one to have supervisory power over the other, but this isn't a normal hierarchical arrangement in the first place.

[Akinomaki 41,179]

The special rijikai to discuss the case of Miyagino will be on June 2nd https://www.jiji.com/sp/article?k=2025052901103&g=spo

[Yubinhaad 11,856]

Sponichi claims Miyagino has submitted his resignation, but the Kyokai haven't accepted it because of the upcoming board meeting noted above.

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

2 hours ago, Yubinhaad said:

Sponichi claims Miyagino has submitted his resignation, but the Kyokai haven't accepted it because of the upcoming board meeting noted above.

Bring out the tinfoil hats!

[Kaninoyama 1,866]

10 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Or Isegahama-oyakata will have a lot more time to do the teaching when he's no longer running a heya at the same time... I've always found it a bit odd how it's been taken as self-evident by most fans that this whole "education of Hakuho" thing cannot possibly extend beyond July 2025. Yeah, normally it requires a shisho <-> affiliated oyakata relationship for one to have supervisory power over the other, but this isn't a normal hierarchical arrangement in the first place.

Apparently, Hakuho feels otherwise. 

Edited May 29 by Kaninoyama

[Kaninoyama 1,866]

The jist of the report is that Hakuho had decided during the Natsu basho to submit his resignation, and already notified his supporters and sponsors. As Yubinhaad indicated, the resignation hasn't been accepted pending the 6/2 board meeting, but Hakuho's intention to resign is said to be firm. As some here and elsewhere have speculated, his relationship with Terunofuji is not the greatest and he is not comfortable with continuing underneath a peer who he views as inferior to him in terms of both career achievement and ability to teach. 

It's possible that the timing of the resignation submission is a last-ditch attempt for Hakuho to apply pressure to get his heya back, but insiders believe that if he still doesn't have his heya back by the time Terunofuji takes over the Isegahama name on 6/9, that will be the final straw and there will be no further recourse for Hakuho to remain with the Kyokai. 

 

Edited May 30 by Kaninoyama

[Ryoshishokunin 330]

I mean, he's right.  It would be laughable for terunofuji--who is also younger than him, on top of the above–to be Hakuho's minder.  Sanyo, maybe.  Terunofuji, no.  

[Koorifuu 1,079]

Just the fact this is being brought up is already vindicating to a degree those who claimed that this has always been a personal vendetta.

I hope common sense and basic decency reign at the end but my hopes aren't all that high.

Edited May 30 by Koorifuu

[Godango 1,054]

I, for one, have learned that @Kintamayama is usually right and I believe he wrote off Hakuho lasting as an oyakata even before his intai.

This is very sad, but for me the writing was on the wall as soon as he was stripped of the heya.

EDIT: Obviously I will wait and see what actually happens but the Sponichi report isn't difficult to believe.

Edited May 30 by Godango

[Jakusotsu 6,188]

4 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

As some here and elsewhere have speculated, his relationship with Terunofuji is not the greatest and he is not comfortable with continuing underneath a peer who he views as inferior to him in terms of both career achievement and ability to teach. 

[Chartorenji 243]

The timing of it all gives some hope to those hoping Hakuho stays. Would make sense for him to bring in the added pressure of "Hey I'm gone if you don't give my stable back" as its clear this meeting in a couple days is the last chance. But this could also be him getting word that the stable isn't happening, and putting in papers in advance. 

Will be interesting to see what happens to the Isegahama stable afterwards though. Guessing Ishiura will take over the plans and start up his own stable, but idk who leaves with him and who stays/retires out of the former Miyagino group. Hope it opens up a door for the other Mongolian at least, would suck if he is somehow left out in the cold after all of this. 

[dingo 1,388]

It's just one report and I'd wait until further info but if that's Hakuho's way of putting pressure on the Kyokai then it reeks of desperation. And I can very well see the Kyokai saying OK, your choice, you're free to go. In general I don't believe the Kyokai takes well to ultimatums and Hakuho of all people should know that as well. So I find it hard to believe it's his plan of getting the heya back. Maybe he's really had enough and the Kyokai intended ot to end this way from the beginning. Who knows, I'll wait and see what happens. Very intriguing in any case. 

[Kaninoyama 1,866]

15 minutes ago, dingo said:

It's just one report and I'd wait until further info but if that's Hakuho's way of putting pressure on the Kyokai then it reeks of desperation.

To be clear, this part of my post was my own conjecture. But the rest of it was straight from the article. 

[Akinomaki 41,179]

6 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

The jist of the report is that Hakuho had decided during the Natsu basho to submit his resignation, and already notified his supporters and sponsors.

Funny, because the other papers report that he confirmed after the end of the basho that he doesn't intend to quit 

- blacklisted

[Akinomaki 41,179]

Sponichi goes on like Bunshun last time, but they are a reliable source: Miyagino doesn't deny that he handed in the resignation, interviewed as he left for Mongolia to visit the grave of his father: "I can't say anything about it"

o

Edited May 30 by Akinomaki

[Kaninoyama 1,866]

31 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Funny, because the other papers report that he confirmed after the end of the basho that he doesn't intend to quit 

- blacklisted

所属する伊勢ケ浜部屋の25日の千秋楽のパーティーでは、角界を離れる意思がないことを口にしていたが、同関係者は大の里の横綱昇進セレモニーに水を差さないようにするための配慮だったと見ているようだ。

Edited May 30 by Kaninoyama

[I am the Yokozuna 204]

that would be a sad outcome reeking of personal vendetta. Such a technically diverse sumo professional with understanding of the need for physical preparation and proper rehabilitation should be leading training of a new crop of rikishi
Not to mention he is like the best ad asset for the sumo federation at this point. 

[Jakusotsu 6,188]

1 hour ago, I am the Yokozuna said:

...should be leading training of a new crop of rikishi.

IIRC, that's what he failed to do when he still held the reins.

[Kintamayama 45,974]

In all this I would just like to remind everyone that when Hakuhou decided to stay in the Kyokai, he was forced to sign a document that he will "be a good boy" as a condition to be accepted as an Oyakata. Unheard of and unprecedented. Then, they decided he can't hold on to his name either, changing the rule for "everyone" to show this wasn't personal. We kinda let these things slide for some reason. They simply did not want him there in the first place, created some obstacles, and when that didn't deter him, waited for a misstep to occur. Now, I know Hakuhou was never a perfect example of hinkaku (Yoshikaze comes to mind in one of the most bizarre occurrences to ever grace the dohyo) but he was revered by his deshi and many others and some good deshi came out of the heya so he must have been doing something right as an Oyakata.. That is why I repeatedly said he would not last long. Too much baggage. I know this is a rumor at this point, but everything points to it being true. A big loss for the Kyokai for sure, but it should not have happened in the first place IMHO.  It's probably tinfoilhat to speculate that maybe this Mongolian who broke smashed all records possible had his "revenge" coming to him eventually. Or maybe not. Anyway, a match made in heaven it ain't.

[Yarimotsu 614]

1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

We kinda let these things slide for some reason. They simply did not want him there in the first place

I know for me, the reason I didn't go on and on about this is because it isn't going to accomplish anything. To actually think about how thoroughly hakuho's record dominates sumo and to try to mesh how he has been treated in that way with his legacy is really damn hard. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is far from the first time. It really stuck out to me how wajima's handprint is missing from the yokozuna handprint stones outside the kokugikan. Sure, that man might have sullied his reputation and been forced out the door for good reason, but when the nsk treats what should be their current golden boy in this way it's hard for me to look at any prior incident of a recent trailblazer being forced out the door. Hakuho took his eyes off a deshi with a really detestable attitude for too long, that much is true. We also know it is true of at least a few other current oyakata (with varying degrees of detestable behaviour swept under the rug) - all of whom since have kept their stables, including the easy comparison of nishonoseki who now gets to reap the rewards of his own deshi's success. Others have mentioned after the fact that onosato's rise was probably inevitable, and some have praised kisenosato for a steadying hand in this rise, but these commentators seem to have forgotten both the minor scandals around onosato under nishonoseki's guidance, and especially forgotten the intrigue around which stable the boy would join in the first place. 

 

That's a long rant going all over the place. Arguably I should keep it to myself, but I want to release these thoughts. Hakuho's got a lot on his plate and as the uber-famous international personality that he should be and probably always will be, that won't change. That might not be the most suitable for someone trying to manage a heya full of young men, but when has this consideration ever factored into sumo heya before? Special treatment again. I note that not once was it publicly discussed to move any oyakata into miyagino beya to stabilise it and teach hakuho and the deshi how to behave there. In hindsight at least, that seem far more acceptable to both stables' Rikishi and their futures in sumo, and far more likely to keep the nsk's members/employees on good terms. 

 

I can understand all the rationale that led to this situation, but I cannot condone it.

[Kintamayama 45,974]

14 minutes ago, Yarimotsu said:

I can understand all the rationale that led to this situation, but I cannot condone it.

I respectfully have to agree with everything you wrote.

[RabidJohn 1,943]

I agree that Hakuho's unsurpassed legacy ought to be better respected, but that should have started with the man himself. Unfortunately, the more successful he was, the more arrogant he became. That was never going to wash when trying to gain access to an old boys' club like the Nihon Sumo Kyokai.

They did everything they could to discourage him, short of actually black-balling (which would have saved a lot of bother, in hindsight). 

I'd foolishly hoped he would knuckle down and fit in, but I knew the clock was ticking when this thread started.

Yes, it is a bloody shame, and no one is going to come out looking good.

[Koorifuu 1,079]

4 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

"I can't say anything about it"

Very different to "what are you talking about".