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If you consider Wakatakakage's yūshō to be a bit of a fluke then it's not entirely surprising that he's having difficulty maintaining an ōzeki run. Very few people make an ōzeki run on their first try and WTK isn't obviously that calibre of rikishi - he's good, but not that good. Daieishō on the other hand is well known to go hot and cold, and his ōzeki run was always an outside shot anyway. So both sekiwake are only screwing this basho up if the metric for their success is yūshō or bust, but honestly doing well enough to stay as sekiwake is the more reasonable expectation IMO.

It's a bit like the whole "if an ōzeki wins a yūshō everyone stares really hard at his next basho" except that with the sekiwake you have three basho to do it in, if the sekiwake just does well enough. Nothing wrong with a consolidatory 9-6 here.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

If you consider Wakatakakage's yūshō to be a bit of a fluke then it's not entirely surprising that he's having difficulty maintaining an ōzeki run. Very few people make an ōzeki run on their first try and WTK isn't obviously that calibre of rikishi - he's good, but not that good. Daieishō on the other hand is well known to go hot and cold, and his ōzeki run was always an outside shot anyway. So both sekiwake are only screwing this basho up if the metric for their success is yūshō or bust, but honestly doing well enough to stay as sekiwake is the more reasonable expectation IMO.

It's a bit like the whole "if an ōzeki wins a yūshō everyone stares really hard at his next basho" except that with the sekiwake you have three basho to do it in, if the sekiwake just does well enough. Nothing wrong with a consolidatory 9-6 here.

I personally totally agree with that. Its not because the small window for promotion is closing (for now) early that the basho is wasted.

But i do wonder if the rikishi himself thinks the same with so many talk around him.

Edited by Bakayokozuna

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Bakayokozuna said:

I personally totally agree with that. Its not because the small window is closing (for now) early that the basho is wasted.

But i do wonder if the rikishi himself thinks the same with so many talk around him.

The true old-timers on this forum are going to have a right chuckle at my expense when they read this, but speaking as someone who once upon a time also wished for results to happen a certain way, after a while you accept that you can't quite have storylines to order, wasted basho or not. WTK's performance last basho was already a bad portent for the hopes of his ōzeki run since he didn't seem to be able to make that further push up one grade to really make the case for promotion, so I don't think anyone was actually expecting him to force the issue this time either.

Also, sometimes, rikishi just need some time to consolidate and get used to their rank before they make a sustained push up again. Hōshōryu is a pretty good example of this - IIRC he MKed in his jūryō and makuuchi debuts, and also the first time when he reached the joi; only his komusubi debut went reasonably well with a 8-7.

Considering how well Wakamotoharu is performing, though, I'd say you might see WTK make a reasonable second attempt for ōzeki at around the same time Wakamotoharu cements himself in the joi or even the sanyaku. It's funny how it often happens that way that two stablemates can make a push together.

If they do think that you'll never know, since all they're going to say is that they will take things one day at a time and try to do their own sumo!

Edited by Seiyashi
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3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Kotonowaka is now 7 straight wins against the Ozeki with his win today.

Wow, or then again maybe not. Wonder what the longest streak is.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, lackmaker said:
4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Kotonowaka is now 7 straight wins against the Ozeki with his win today.

Wow, or then again maybe not. Wonder what the longest streak is.

If you add the caveat of longest win streak against ōzeki as maegashira, komusubi or sekiwake, Yoshibayama in 1950-1951 with 13 consecutive wins against ōzeki: 3 of them with his favourite but controversial technique, ketaguri (ankle kick).

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_expand=on&group_by=rikishi1&having=7&rowcount=5&rank1=m,s,k&rank2=o&offset=16000

I did an eye test for long strings of shiroboshi so I've probably made some errors, but the listing of consecutive wins against ōzeki is as follows:

Order Streak Rikishi Period Comments
1 13 Yoshibayama 1950-1951  
2 10 Musōyama 1998-2000 (against Takanonami and Chiyotaikai - Musashigawa dominance at play)
3 9 Hasegawa 1966  
3 9 Kaiketsu 1976-1977  
5 8 Kaiō 1995  
5 8 Takayasu 2017  
5 8 Mienoumi 1971-1972  
5 8 Baruto 2009-2010  
5 8 Konishiki 1986  
5 8 Ama/Harumafuji 2008  
5 8 Kagamisato 1950  
12 7 Kotonowaka 2022  
12 7 Kotomitsuki 2006  
12 7 Hoshi/Hokutoumi 1986  
12 7 Kotozakura 1967  
12 7 Kitanoumi 1973-1974  
12 7 Chiyonofuji 1980-1981  
12 7 Asanoyama 2019-2020  
19 6 Miyabiyama 2006  
19 6 Gōeidō 2013 (excluding fusen to Baruto)
19 6 Kaiō 2000  
19 6 Tamawashi 2018  
19 6 Tochiazuma II 1999-2000 (ended by losses to Dejima and Chiyotaikai)
19 6 Tochiazuma II 2000  
19 6 Kirishima 1993  
19 6 Fusanishiki 1961  
19 6 Tamanoumi 1956-1957  
19 6 Masurao 1987  
19 6 Shimizugawa 1932  

Kotonowaka has just drawn level with his own grandfather to go joint-12th on the list, and will go joint 5th if he manages to beat Takakeishō tomorrow.

Edited by Seiyashi
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The capacity is given as 7448, with 6331 (85%) they could have shown the man-in onrei banners, 80% full usually is enough for that.

The capacity was given as 7448, but on day 1 was corrected to 7696 - 6331 are still 82%, but they deemed it too low to lower the banners. http://mainichi.jp/articles/20220710/k00/00m/050/062000c

Depending on the venue, the requirement for man-in onrei differs.

On 29/11/2018 at 21:43, Akinomaki said:

It is more or less simply determined by the present mood of the NSK administration and varies from one venue to the other, esp. Tokyo and regional, and may vary over the years: from 75% (there recently was an article that told of cases with even less, or in the past of at least 80%) to 95% (not anymore - in the past maybe, and voices of "it should be", 90% is enough now) of a sellout on that day: if they feel that the quota is reached at about 14h, they lower the man-in onrei banners before makuuchi.

Edited by Akinomaki
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Man, what a horrible start to the tournament, there are 8 undefeated guys and you know those are likely to falter at any point (yutakayama 2-0, wouldn't be surprised if he finishes the basho 2-13 with how inconsistent he can be.)

It all starts wrong for me when the goat of goats Ishiura can't compete.

But Daieisho, Onosho, Wata, all 0-2? That's sad, usually, those are the ones we can count on!

Anyway, Sumo is Sumo, even bad tournaments end up with good surprises and can be fun, I always thought the sign that you really like a sport is when all the greats and favorites aren't competing yet you still want to see it. I remember when I used to watch a lot of tennis but the moment the rivalries that interested me (roddick federer, nadal federer, etc.) ended, I stopped watching and haven't watched a tournament since because I could not care less about Novak. Sumo is fun regardless of what happens but I wont deny that tournaments like this get more fast forward action from me than others.

With the way the score is right now, the tournament basically hasn't started yet, the only one from the undefeateds I can actually see doing some damage (and I would love it if it happened) would be Tamawashi, we know this man can bring it, we know he can beat the yokozuna. Kotonowaka could also bring it as well but for some reason I don't see it this tournament.

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Ura had a brilliant strategy against Abi today!  He got set well behind the start line (as he is known to do), and as soon as Abi charged with his arms out (as he is known to do), Ura simply deflected the thrust.  Then as Abi turned to face his opponent, Ura got low inside and pushed Abi out of the ring.  Oshidashi.  Talk about giving Abi a dose of his own medicine.  If only Terunofuji had thought of that strategy.  But he didn't.

For his part, Abi looked a little lackadaisical.  Maybe he didn't view Ura as a serious threat, or maybe he celebrated those 37 kensho prizes a little too much the night before... ;-)

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Posted (edited)

Asanoyama'adventures continue day3 vs Nishikikuni. Daiseizan vs Wakanosho, should be as fun as the first two time. Kototebakari, Shunrai, kayo, Kotokenryu, Hanafusa, Miyagi... all 1-0 and fighting in day 3. I'm rly enjoying sandanme in this early basho

Edited by Bakayokozuna

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1 hour ago, lackmaker said:

Wow, or then again maybe not. Wonder what the longest streak is.

If we're talking consecutive wins only as maegashira (ginboshi) in ozeki H2H, Kotonowaka now leads with Yoshibayama with 7.

https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_expand=on&group_by=rikishi1&year=1920-1960, 2010-now&rowcount=2&shikona1=Kotonowaka, Yoshibayama&rank2=O

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10 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Is it standard procedure that Yutakayama gets his water from Tsurugisho instead of Hidenoumi, because technically Daiamami "lost" the previous bout?

First time I noticed this...

I'd say it's standard practice, since as soon as Hidenoumi came down off the ring, the yobidashi instructed him to head back to the shitakubeya (i.e., not wait around).  It is standard for the winner to serve power water in the bout immediately following his own.  Since that bout involved a withdrawal, Hidenoumi's services were not required.

The default winner of a bout involving a withdrawal always stays to serve power water on his side in the very next bout.  Thus Chiyomaru ended up serving power water to Onosho.  But if Chiyomaru had been slated on the west side, he would have served Yutakayama.  

Since as you said Daiamami technically "lost" lost the previous bout, the responsibility for serving water on the losing side went to Tsurugisho.  It always goes to a ringside wrestler who has yet to fight.

Interestingly enough, Tsurugisho got up right after Hidenoumi left, anticipating the upcoming need for him to serve power water next.  But he was told (by the shinpan?) to sit down and wait for the kyujo conferral of victory to end.  Only then was it time for him to take his position at the west corner.

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21 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

It is standard for the winner to serve power water in the bout immediately following his own.  Since that bout involved a withdrawal, Hidenoumi's services were not required.

Yeah, I get that. But still, there's no compelling reason to reject them.

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People being told to eat in silence.

fNqkYpw.jpg

Some random shot of a shop in the arena. I don't know why they even pointed a camera over here but I'm glad they did because I like these little b-roll shots. I've actually never been to Nagoya and I should fix that next time I'm in Japan.

LEyoyyO.jpg

"Happy Bithday ♥ Wedding!"

8co9ceV.jpg

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

Some random shot of a shop in the arena. I don't know why they even pointed a camera over here but I'm glad they did because I like these little b-roll shots. I've actually never been to Nagoya and I should fix that next time I'm in Japan.

LEyoyyO.jpg

I think this is the only shop (or else one of two symmetrically placed) that is visible within the arena itself, and the idea was to get a shot of the towels for popular rikishi that you wouldn't otherwise be able to get e.g. in the Kokugikan. All the other souvenir shops are in the passageways on the outside of the arena area. 

Edited by Seiyashi
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9 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Kotonowaka is now 7 straight wins against the Ozeki with his win today.

'Underperforming ozeki' aside, He's got the goods, this one. Keeping myself off the hype train as we know how these things can pan out, but he's a very exciting prospect.

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Posted (edited)

There was some trivia on the NHK broadcast during the Ōshōma - Chiyosakae bout about the - if I read this correctly - "last shin-jūryō from each prefecture (to-dō-fu-ken)". On that list was:

Fukui - Daitetsu - Hatsu 1980
Gifu - Enazakura - Haru 1986
Tokushima - Kengaku - Aki 1991
Gunma - Minatofuji - ??1992
?? - ?? - ?? 1995

The last line is blocked because of the donation banner of the stream I'm watching - does anyone know what it is? The characters for the shikona don't seem to resemble the kanji for either of the wrestlers in that bout, or for that matter the previous bout (Takakentō v Gōnoyama), although it seems to be pertinent to Chiyosakae as the most recent sekitori from Kyōto.

Edited by Seiyashi

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Chiyosakae surprisingly opening his account against Ōshōma, who had to have been regarded as one of the more promising candidates for the jūryō yūshō this time out. Ōshōma didn't get a good grip on Chiyosakae and only had a handful of sagari, and was promptly sent crashing down when Chiyosakae dodged.

Hokuseihō going 2-1 in a complete shutout of Kitanowaka, and looking in more orthodox form while he does it too. That said, Kitanowaka gave up the inner right from the very beginning, so maybe he didn't need anything unorthodox.

Kaisei not being able to put up any resistance against an equally-bandaged Shimazuumi. If he crashes and burns bad enough to fall out of the sekitori ranks this basho an intai announcement might be forthcoming.

Atamifuji survives his run-in with Bushōzan with a slapdown to clock his shōnichi.

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Tamawashi giving Endō a masterclass in how not to oshi. 

Anyone else feeling a Tamawashi yūshō?

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6 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Tamawashi giving Endō a masterclass in how not to oshi. 

Anyone else feeling a Tamawashi yūshō?

Honestly? I am more on board with Ichinojo (who has just yorikiri'd Hoshoryu). Tamawashi was more or less the same last basho but ended up with a 9-6. But he could well prove me wrong.

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Posted (edited)

Oooo, spicy. Takakeishō clearly hasn't forgotten his last controversial encounter with Kotonowaka at - was it Ōsaka? (The one where he punched the wall on the way back to the shitakubeya). Fierce nodowa and harite from Takakeishō, and then a little dame-oshi to the chest at the end clearly after Kotonowaka is over the bales.

And that stops Kotonowaka's ginboshi streak.

Edited by Seiyashi
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Kiribayama has been one of my favourite rikishi to watch for a while now. Good composed yotsu sumo, strong offensively and defensively, seems to be getting better and better in the top part of the banzuke.

I think this may be the tournament that Shodai loses his Ozeki rank.

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Certainly disappointing to blow a chance at a kinboshi, especially when you're as close as Takanoshō is, but on the other hand, that was a properly exciting musubi, and valiantly fought. I don't think he needs to be disappointed with himself.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Abi back to doing Abi things this basho. 

I think he is only really bad when the shisho is commentating. Would be interesting to see his record for the days Shikoroyama was on TV.

Edited by Akinomaki
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