robnplunder

Natsu basho 2019 discussions [SPOILERS]

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Wild day in sanyaku but worst loss to me has to go to Takayasu. He was one good push away from putting Aoiyama out, he just didn't do it.  The others weren't really in the match. Mitakeumi looked good but it was clear he wasn't going to deny Endo that inside grip and it was going to cost him.

The yusho race is looking interesting. Asanoyama is in a very strong position. I think he is a dead duck tomorrow against Tamawashi. At the same time I don't see Tochinoshin or Kakuryu winning the rest of his matches so I think 12-3  wins the yusho.  So even with a loss on Day 12 Asanoyama could still make a  playoff in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

Will [Asanoyama] even face any sanyaku before a playoff? Tomorrow he has Tamawashi and then for the final three days the sanyaku bouts are pretty much fixed.

Well, there's still Ichinojo with more than enough holes to fill in his schedule. It's another story how much of an obstacle he can be in the yusho race.

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Meanwhile Jokoryu (1-4) has fallen to what is very likely to become his worst non-sekitori result of all time. It's sad he'll probably never reach 30 sekitori basho at this rate. There was so much promise at the start, what happened to him?

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2 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Well, there's still Ichinojo with more than enough holes to fill in his schedule. It's another story how much of an obstacle he can be in the yusho race.

Heck, maybe that's why Ichinojo is coming back. I can't think of any other reason too. They can throw Mitakeumi against him too. 

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7 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Well, there's still Ichinojo with more than enough holes to fill in his schedule. It's another story how much of an obstacle he can be in the yusho race.

Is he coming back? I hadn’t realised.

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Posted (edited)

There are four guys from sanyaku - Kakuryu, Goeido, Takaysu and Tochinoshin and they did not meet yet in this basho. That makes 6 possible pairs between them and three days remains unpaired. Most probably, May 24th Tochinoshin  will face Kakuryu and Goeido will face Takayasu.  Is that real, that Asanoyama won't be paired with any of this guys to come to play off with maximum possible wins?  He is Japanese, he is sole leader now and two following him are one Georgian another Mongolian. Does the Sumo association  want so desperately to have Japanese winner,  that they can clear the way for Asanoyama in that way? Bizarre.

Edited by Akumazeki

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2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Will he even face any sanyaku before a playoff? Tomorrow he has Tamawashi and then for the final three days the sanyaku bouts are pretty much fixed. Kakuryu still has to face both Ozeki and Tochinoshin. Both Ozeki still have to face each other, Kakuryu and Tochinoshin. Tochinoshin still has to face Kakuryu and both Ozeki. That’s all three days accounted for unless they swap someone out. They wouldn’t do that if Asanoyama was trailing, but if he’s still in the lead or tied with a couple of days left they could, I suppose, sacrifice an Ozeki bout with Kakuryu or Tochinoshin, since both Ozeki are out of the race. He could also face a/the Komusubi.

Dropping the all ozeki bout makes more sense as they're both out of contention as it stands.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Akumazeki said:

There are four guys from sanyaku - Kakuryu, Goeido, Takaysu and Tochinoshin and they did not meet yet in this basho. That makes 6 possible pairs between them and three days remains unpaired. Most probably, May 24th Tochinoshin  will face Kakuryu and Goeido will face Takayasu.  Is that real, that Asanoyama won't be paired with any of this guys to come to play off with maximum possible wins?  He is Japanese, he is sole leader now and two following him are one Georgian another Mongolian. Does the Sumo association  want so desperately to have Japanese winner,  that they can clear the way for Asanoyama in that way? Bizarre.

I really wish I knew where this theory that the Kyokai secretly want Japanese rikishi only to win and make it as easy as possible for any candidates. Tamawashi is no pushover by any means and this is all perfectly in line with precedent.

Edited by Pandaazuma
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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Akumazeki said:

There are four guys from sanyaku - Kakuryu, Goeido, Takaysu and Tochinoshin and they did not meet yet in this basho. That makes 6 possible pairs between them and three days remains unpaired. Most probably, May 24th Tochinoshin  will face Kakuryu and Goeido will face Takayasu.  Is that real, that Asanoyama won't be paired with any of this guys to come to play off with maximum possible wins?  He is Japanese, he is sole leader now and two following him are one Georgian another Mongolian. Does the Sumo association  want so desperately to have Japanese winner,  that they can clear the way for Asanoyama in that way? Bizarre.

To be honest, I think they’ve probably just stumbled into this situation. The sanyaku bouts for the final few days are always the same, so they’re hamstrung by tradition a bit there. They probably expected Kakuryu and Tochinoshin to be leading the way at this point, which would have avoided any scheduling headaches, but it hasn’t worked out that way. I imagine they’ll give Asanoyama the toughest available schedule they can for the final four days and hope he drops off the pace. I can’t believe they’d prefer a hiramaku yusho winner to a sanyaku yusho, especially when the yaku ranks have been relatively complete this basho, even if he is Japanese. Plus, it’s Asanoyama, not one of the darlings of Japanese sumo like Takakeisho or Mitakeumi (or even Shodai and Endo).

Edited by Eikokurai

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4 minutes ago, lackmaker said:

Dropping the all ozeki bout makes more sense as they're both out of contention as it stands.

No chance! Even when it’s meaningless, they never take an all-Ozeki clash off the schedule ... do they? (Cue someone finding hundreds of precedents on the database)

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2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

To be honest, I think they’ve probably just stumbled into this situation. The sanyaku bouts for the final few days are always the same, so they’re hamstrung by tradition a bit there. They probably expected Kakuryu and Tochinoshin to be leading the way at this point, which would have avoided any scheduling headaches, but it hasn’t worked out that way. I imagine they’ll give Asanoyama the toughest available schedule they can for the final four days and hope he drops off the pace. I can’t believe they’d prefer a hiramaku yusho winner to a sanyaku yusho, especially when the yaku ranks have been relatively complete this basho, even if he is Japanese.

I hope for that too. As it was said above, they could drop Ozeki bouts and face Asanoya to each of them.

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And why does this whole disucssion have such a same-old-same-old ring to it?

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8 minutes ago, Pandaazuma said:

I really wish I knew where this theory that the Kyokai secretly want Japanese rikishi only to win and make it as easy as possible for any candidates. Tamawashi is no pushover by any means and this is all perfectly in line with precedent. 

Secretly or openly , that is different. What I see, Asanoyama in 11 days did not face any from sanyaku. Highest in a rank so far was Ryuden, M5 and tomorrow Tamavashi, M3.  There are two K, S, two O and Y and no one, just no one faced the guy , who is sole leader. Strange and bizarre. But, whatever. We will see what will happen in last three day

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4 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Ah, that's what it was.   I was wondering what the hold up was.   I've got a suggestion for the head shimpan.  Keep it short and sweet.  No need to write a novel when he can't articulate.  He could have just said  "Sadanoumi's heel touched down first.  The result stands."

The problem is that he can't just say that. He literally cannot put a coherent sentence together, no matter how simple. 

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6 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

And why does this whole disucssion have such a same-old-same-old ring to it?

It’s not like much new comes up in a sport that barely changes. :)

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Akumazeki said:

Secretly or openly , that is different. What I see, Asanoyama in 11 days did not face any from sanyaku. Highest in a rank so far was Ryuden, M5 and tomorrow Tamavashi, M3.  There are two K, S, two O and Y and no one, just no one faced the guy , who is sole leader. Strange and bizarre. But, whatever. We will see what will happen in last three day

That’s fairly normal for a guy ranked M8. He’s not in the joi. The sanyaku and, roughly, top five maegashira fight each other more or less in a round robin, unless special circumstances require otherwise. As Asanoyama has been behind the leaders the whole way until today, there was no pressing need to alter the program for him. He’ll get the two Komusubi and – now that he’s returned – Ichinojo the final three days I expect. 

Edited by Eikokurai
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3 hours ago, robnplunder said:

  When a match is very close, monoii should be called. 

That may be your opinion, but I don't think that's how it works in practice. If  a match is very close, but none of the ringside judges are of the opinion that the gyoji got it wrong or that they went out simultaneously, there's not going to be a mono-ii. They don't do it just to "have another look."

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2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:
2 hours ago, lackmaker said:

Dropping the all ozeki bout makes more sense as they're both out of contention as it stands.

No chance! Even when it’s meaningless, they never take an all-Ozeki clash off the schedule ... do they? (Cue someone finding hundreds of precedents on the database)

Of course I don't think it will happen. I just say it makes more sense as drama and for competition.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Akumazeki said:

Secretly or openly , that is different. What I see, Asanoyama in 11 days did not face any from sanyaku. Highest in a rank so far was Ryuden, M5 and tomorrow Tamavashi, M3.  There are two K, S, two O and Y and no one, just no one faced the guy , who is sole leader. Strange and bizarre. But, whatever. We will see what will happen in last three day

The schedule faced by Asanoyama is absolutely what anyone at his rank would face and has faced in the past even when they are in the leading group. There is nothing whatsoever 'bizarre' about this. He may get a sanyaku or strong joi opponent on days 13/14.

Edited by Pandaazuma
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Article from Nikkan on Asanoyama's win today.

25 years old Asanoyama is sole leader with just one loss after day 11 (10-1). It took him about 2,9 seconds to beat Sadanoumi via yorikiri but a lengthy monoi was called to decide if his left foot didn't go out first. After over two and a half minutes it was finally decided that it didn't, and Asanoyama improved to 10-1. It's the first time since Aki 2007 that a hiramaku rikishi is sole leader after 11 days (It was Goeido at the time).

Head judge Oonomatsu who annonced the decision beat his own record of most confusing and embarassing explanation ever, leaving everybody clueless about who won. He even had to be told what to say in his headset so that people could understand, and was  booed by the audience in the process.

Asanoyama showed dominant sumo again, getting a right grip right at the tachi-ai and pushed Sadanoumi out in a flash. Yorikiri. As I wrote earlier, the monoi was called to see if he wasn't  to decide if Isamiashi was the call. The crowd fell silent and the discussion began. After a verdict was reached, Oonomatsu grabbed a mic and let his talent speak:

"The gyoji raised his gunbai towards Asanoyama but the monoi was called to decide if Sadanoumi's heel wasn't out first. The result of the discussion is that Sadano... Asanoyama's heel was out first therefore Asanoyama wins" he announced (please take a moment to admire this masterpiece of logic)

Puzzled people in the crowd were asking themselves "who won ?" and the poor man was booed. Asanoyama just stood there a stern expression on his face.

"Sadanoumi's heel was out first, Asanoyama w... wins" corrected Oonomatsu apparently still unsure about who that Asanoyama guy was. And everybody in the arena was finaly relieved.

"As soon as I feflt the tawara I pushed my foot back right away" explained Asanoyama while going back to the changing room. Asanoyama apparently played handball for a couple of years as a goal keeper when he was in primary school which can explain his good reflexes. On Oonomatsu's masterpiece " I didn't understand who won either" he laughed

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/photonews/photonews_nsInc_201905220000844-2.html

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3 hours ago, Pandaazuma said:

I really wish I knew where this theory that the Kyokai secretly want Japanese rikishi only to win and make it as easy as possible for any candidates. Tamawashi is no pushover by any means and this is all perfectly in line with precedent.

Oh, that's a good one..Where is Mike when we need him..

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ryafuji said:

They don't do it just to "have another look."

Yes they do- all the time. They even say so sometimes in their explanation after their decision.

Edited by Kintamayama
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2 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

The problem is that he can't just say that. He literally cannot put a coherent sentence together, no matter how simple. 

AND, he was reading..

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10 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

 

"The gyoji raised his gunbai towards Asanoyama but the monoi was called to decide if Sadanoumi's heel wasn't out first. The result of the discussion is that Sadano... Asanoyama's heel was out first therefore Asanoyama wins" he announced (please take a moment to admire this masterpiece of logic)

 

Got that one word for word on the secret video..

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Got that one word for word on the secret video..

Oh so you uploaded today as well ? Flying to youtube to watch that right away !

Edited by Rainoyama

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