Basho Talk - Nagoya Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[RabidJohn 2,054]

It seems to me that more than one member hereabouts has suggested that rikishi with MK already should do favours for rikishi having a good basho.

What utter bullcrap!

Leaving aside the yaocho implications, all these guys are in it to win. Even at 0-9 you can still go 6-9 and minimise your slide down the banzuke

[robnplunder 978]

Kisenosato - that henka loss is puzzling. Against a smaller rikishi, should he be so reckless at Tachihai (sp?)? Hmmm.

5 rikishi tied at the top and I can't guess who has the edge. Everyone looked vulnerable, even Hakuho. Who has the edge? My hope for the eventual Yusho taker is ... anyone but Hakuho :-) .

Shodai got Mitakeumi's number. With his fine record, he will start the next basho against all the Ozekis and Yokozunas. I'd bet he does better the second time around. Meanwhile, Mitakeumi will have to regroup - see Shodai.

Ura's tactic today (day 10) was understandable. Perhaps, henka was a better option, no?

Edited July 19, 2016 by robnplunder

[Morningstar 118]

Mitakeumi is the first rikishi I've seen taking out a gumshield.

I think Takekaze uses it too. There was a discussion about this some time ago… some rikishi said he was scared of using a gumshield because it would make the tachiai impact stronger.

How does it make it stronger? I thought a mouthguard simply protects the teeth.

They can help with a number of things. Including concussions and jaw damage.

[Fatbutnotsumofat 0]

A very interesting day, kind of sad for Kisenosato, but as pointed out that should not happen.

Hakuhos presumed injury makes the Yokozuna encounter very interesting. Harumafuji probably has a better chance than usually.

Btw. if standards are lowered for promotion, even bigger crime in my eyes is keeping them that way. Many mistakes do not correct one. Someone also pointed out that Kisenosato's record is exactly what it is at this point for a good Ozeki. 2 tournaments 13-2 but nothing before that. Winning this one could barely earn him a promotion, but then again if he ends up having six consecutive tournaments with 13-2/runner up and then wins one, I would gladly see him promoted. Bottom line is, that many people are just afraid of him slipping back to the 10-5, 9-6 numbers and hope he gets promoted before that. But if that happens it just proves that yes he is just ozeki. Still a champion a someone said.

[ALAKTORN 346]

Mitakeumi is the first rikishi I've seen taking out a gumshield.

I think Takekaze uses it too. There was a discussion about this some time ago some rikishi said he was scared of using a gumshield because it would make the tachiai impact stronger.

How does it make it stronger? I thought a mouthguard simply protects the teeth.

They can help with a number of things. Including concussions and jaw damage.

I think the point was that without it going full-force at the tachiai may hurt you, so with a mouthpiece you’d be able to go all-out and said rikishi was scared of that. I don’t remember exactly but it was something posted here some time ago. Edited July 19, 2016 by ALAKTORN

[dingo 1,476]

I see a few people are butthurt about henkas today.

You can freely count me as one of them. When you're looking forward to a great bout between two strong rikishi, it feels horribly anticlimatic to have one of them unceremoniously dumped on his face. Not to mention that Shohozan should have enough self respect to not to resort to these kind of moves. This is almost as bad as Kakuryu's yusho-winning henka.

[Morningstar 118]

I am really looking forward to tonight's battle of the two Taka's. They have both been performing at an outstanding level, and have been very entertaining to watch. It is almost sad, that one of them will have to lose (baring a very very rare draw).

Here is to Takarafuji & Takayasu continued health and success! (Applauding...)

[WAKATAKE 2,759]

Wakatake can confirm or deny this but Ura's move today, and famously that time in amasumo, is called a "sitout" in freestyle wrestling and is a fairly basic move. The difference is that in sumo you can't touch the ground. His bent over "submarine" position is also a very normal position in freestyle wrestling. Its fascinating for me to see, with the little knowledge I have, his wrestling background influencing his unorthodox style.

His amateur wrestling background definitely has been interesting to watch when trying to incorporate it into his sumo. The izori is also similar to what's called the fireman's carry, which is trying to tackle your opponent while holding one arm and trying to get the leg on the same side. However in wrestling you can touch the ground all you want, which is what limits him somewhat when it comes to sumo. Similarly there are a few matches of him that I've seen where he gets into the standard wrestling stance with other wrestlers. It definitely shows amateur wrestling through Ura.

[Katooshu 3,478]

Kise :-S

[sekitori 492]

That Shohozan henka was so cheap. This is why I'm not a fan of henka's. Shohozan just screwed someone's tournament. Yeah, it's a henka and you still shouldn't lose to it, but it's just poor taste. Shohozan's just going to end up MK later in the week anyway. It's just more of a matter of respect.

Henkas are always cheap, but they happen to be perfectly legal. Are they in poor taste? Not when you're a pronounced underdog and using it is your primary chance of winning.

Highly ranked, highly experienced rikishis should be smart enough to always look for a henka, especially when they're heavily favored to win. Many people were expecting Shohozan to do a henka. Kisenosato wasn't and it cost him. Shohozan's henka did not screw up Kisenosato's tournament. What did screw it up was Kisenosato's inability to deal with it.

When a rikishi faces a much stronger opponent with virtually no hope of winning, it seems to me that he should come up with a plan that will somewhat decrease his chances of losing. In this case, that plan was a henka--and it worked. As for having self-respect and showing respect to an opponent, as long as you defeat him without breaking any rules, I don't understand why those two words should even be mentioned.

Edited July 20, 2016 by sekitori

[robnplunder 978]

Mitakeumi is the first rikishi I've seen taking out a gumshield.

I think Takekaze uses it too. There was a discussion about this some time ago some rikishi said he was scared of using a gumshield because it would make the tachiai impact stronger.

How does it make it stronger? I thought a mouthguard simply protects the teeth.

They can help with a number of things. Including concussions and jaw damage.

I think the point was that without it going full-force at the tachiai may hurt you, so with a mouthpiece you’d be able to go all-out and said rikishi was scared of that. I don’t remember exactly but it was something posted here some time ago.

Mouthpiece protects teeth, and help lesson the impact of getting hit in the mouth area. I don't see any other benefit than that. As a former boxer who used mouthpiece, I highly recommend that all rikishi use it. With all that slapping around, why wouldn't you use it?

[Morningstar 118]

Mitakeumi is the first rikishi I've seen taking out a gumshield.

I think Takekaze uses it too. There was a discussion about this some time ago some rikishi said he was scared of using a gumshield because it would make the tachiai impact stronger.

How does it make it stronger? I thought a mouthguard simply protects the teeth.

They can help with a number of things. Including concussions and jaw damage.

I think the point was that without it going full-force at the tachiai may hurt you, so with a mouthpiece you’d be able to go all-out and said rikishi was scared of that. I don’t remember exactly but it was something posted here some time ago.

Mouthpiece protects teeth, and help lesson the impact of getting hit in the mouth area. I don't see any other benefit than that. As a former boxer who used mouthpiece, I highly recommend that all rikishi use it. With all that slapping around, why wouldn't you use it?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140501101133.htm

"High school football players wearing store-bought, over-the-counter mouthguards were more than twice as likely to suffer mild traumatic brain injuries/concussions than those wearing custom-made, properly fitted mouthguards, reports a new study."

http://www.dentistrytoday.com/sports-dentistry/357-athletic-mouthguards-indications-types-and-benefits

"Custom mouthguards help protect the teeth while at the same time aid in diffusing the impact to the jaws by separating the mandible from the maxilla. The resulting separation within the glenoid fossa decreases the chance of concussive effects to the base of the brain."

[Dwale 419]

K, I will not go back on saying Hakuho has been hiding an injury because to be clear, I think he's hiding multiple injuries because it's very important to his aura that he seems to be made of iron. But, maybe he did trip on his toe. It's not my place to call him a liar when I don't have proof of anything.

What I will say for sure, though, is that Tochinoshin match was epic. And also that this tournament is still insane.

[robnplunder 978]

Mitakeumi is the first rikishi I've seen taking out a gumshield.

I think Takekaze uses it too. There was a discussion about this some time ago some rikishi said he was scared of using a gumshield because it would make the tachiai impact stronger.

How does it make it stronger? I thought a mouthguard simply protects the teeth.

They can help with a number of things. Including concussions and jaw damage.

I think the point was that without it going full-force at the tachiai may hurt you, so with a mouthpiece you’d be able to go all-out and said rikishi was scared of that. I don’t remember exactly but it was something posted here some time ago.

Mouthpiece protects teeth, and help lesson the impact of getting hit in the mouth area. I don't see any other benefit than that. As a former boxer who used mouthpiece, I highly recommend that all rikishi use it. With all that slapping around, why wouldn't you use it?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140501101133.htm

"High school football players wearing store-bought, over-the-counter mouthguards were more than twice as likely to suffer mild traumatic brain injuries/concussions than those wearing custom-made, properly fitted mouthguards, reports a new study."

http://www.dentistrytoday.com/sports-dentistry/357-athletic-mouthguards-indications-types-and-benefits

"Custom mouthguards help protect the teeth while at the same time aid in diffusing the impact to the jaws by separating the mandible from the maxilla. The resulting separation within the glenoid fossa decreases the chance of concussive effects to the base of the brain."

When I boxed 35+ years ago, I don't think there were custom made/fitted mouthpiece. Since then, it has been easily available for a small cost. If fitted right, it will be a good thing for rikishi.

[Asashosakari 20,222]

Folks, please trim your quotes once in a while...

[Akinomaki 41,733]

I think the point was that without it going full-force at the tachiai may hurt you, so with a mouthpiece you’d be able to go all-out and said rikishi was scared of that. I don’t remember exactly but it was something posted here some time ago.

Takekaze swears by his mouth-piece - during keiko and before the torikumi. Not many rikishi use one.

His reason is a bout with Iwakiyama 10 years ago. At the head-butt initial charge, the nerve of a tooth of a left lower back tooth snapped apart. He now has one or more ceramic teeth and to protect them an order-made mouth-piece. And with better biting power, the usable power of the whole body increases, the reason for many athletes to use one.

For him it's just the right power-up, for Kisenosato that would apparently be too much power: with fear of muscle rupture he refrains from using a mouth-piece.

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2015/11/14/kiji/K20151114011506070.html

[d_golem 213]

Folks, please trim your quotes once in a while...

I for one would like to see how many quotes can my phone display show before the original post disappears into oblivion...that's in upright position, then I would like to see how many more quotes can it take in landscape mode 😝

[kuroimori 1,634]

and the "let's henka the leader" tactics continue - also in Juryo!

Homarefuji successfully pulled a henka on (then) leading Amakaze, who now shares the lead with Chiyomaru at 9-2. Ura has a chance to stay at their heels if he wins (although his heel is not in the best of shape...)

[kuroimori 1,634]

ex-Kyokutenho is on Juryo commentator duties at NHK.

I really like his style of commentating, his observations and how he puts it in words.

His comment on Ishiura's loss today was "You could see that Ishiura was so eager to get that win." (he forced/rushed it)

[kuroimori 1,634]

URA KACHIKOSHI!!!

Let's see if he still decides to go kyujo now, having secured that he will not lose banzuke ranks.

[kuroimori 1,634]

So Yasu prevailed over Fuji in the Battle of the Taka.

I am still trying to grasp that this was the most anticipated bout on Day 11, I mean M2w vs. Kw...

Edited July 20, 2016 by kuroimori

[kuroimori 1,634]

Shodai just submitted a very convincing application for Goeido's position...

[ronnie 221]

So Fuji prevailed over Yasu in the Battle of the Taka.

I am still trying to grasp that this was the most anticipated bout on Day 11, I mean M2w vs. Kw...

Fuji prevailed over Yasu?

Did Yasu make a comment to Taka on his way back to the tawara?

Edited July 20, 2016 by ronnie

[kuroimori 1,634]

So Fuji prevailed over Yasu in the Battle of the Taka.

I am still trying to grasp that this was the most anticipated bout on Day 11, I mean M2w vs. Kw...

Fuji prevailed over Yasu?

Did Yasu make a comment to Taka on is way back to the tawara?

Oops, the other way round - must have been because my virtual Sumo Game money has been on Takarafuji..

[ronnie 221]

Great attempt by Ikioi for the hat trick.