Aki 2014 Basho Comments

[Gurowake 4,147]

Clearly a mistake was made in not challenging Kyokutenho early enough, and it's not right to let a low-ranked maegashira waltz to a yusho. And Ichinojo has certainly looked impressive so far. Kisenosato, after a great start, is looking a little doubtful lately. Could easily lose this match. He does not seem to intimidate opponents at all. Takarafuji couldn't get off the dohyo fast enough against Hakuho; today he's a monster.

Ichinojo again using a strong grip on the back of the neck. Very useful; at his height he will see plenty of neck backs to grab.

If you go back and look at the decisions they made for his opponents, he was matched up with high-ranking guys as soon as it was clear he was in contention. After day 11 when they made the day 13 torikumi, Kisenosato had a 2-win lead over 8 rikishi. You can't put Ozeki against all those guys. Kisenosato lost day 12 (to Tochiozan) and only Tochiozan and Kyokutenho won out of the 3-loss group, so the latter two did get tough matches for days 14 and 15. Kyokutenho did end up facing Sekiwake Goeido and Ozeki Kotooshu and beat both of them, so it's not like it just fell to Kyokutenho without having him beat anyone good at all.

The one match that sticks out is Day 13. Paired against a 5-7 M11. Could they really not come up with anything better than that?

Again, he wasn't really in contention after Day 11 when they made the Day 13 pairings. Kisenosato was 10-1 and the following people were 8-3: O Baruto, O Kotoshogiku, M4 Tochiozan, M6 Aoiyama, M7 Kyokutenho, M11 Shotenro, M15 Tamawashi, M16 Takarafuji. Yes, in hindsight it would have probably been better to pair more of the 8-3 maegashira against each other, but there may have been many other factors that went into the choice of torikumi as plenty of those rikishi had already fought each other. There was far more on the minds of the people making the torikumi than making sure all 6 maegashira in contention faced as difficult a schedule as possible. It's only with hindsight that we see "OMG, the yusho winner was given a weak Day 13 opponent" because no one saw him seriously in contention. It was just a fluke that happens only rarely and given the lackluster performance of the top competitors that tournament, someone with a weak schedule was bound to come out on top. If Tochiozan had won the playoff, people would probably be complaining about how convenient is was for Kotooshu to pull out and give Tochiozan the free win.

[Shitamachi 21]

did anyone see else this today? Hakuho - hansoku hair pull? or not???

hakuho day 11.jpg

image:twitter

Seconded! Thought exactly the same thing, if Harumafuji was fusen, surely this was as well...

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

did anyone see else this today? Hakuho - hansoku hair pull? or not???

hakuho day 11.jpg

image:twitter

Seconded! Thought exactly the same thing, if Harumafuji was fusenhansoku, surely this was as well...

Corrected. And yes, I saw and thought that too. But this one was even clearer not the deciding factor for the win. Also, Harumafuji's subsequent kyujo might have given them a good enough scare not to pull a yokozuna like that.

[ALAKTORN 346]

I called the Ichinojō henka from far away. That was his plan all along.

Also when I saw Chiyomaru against Toyonoshima on screen I went like “uh-oh…” I think Toyonoshima has the best oshi/nodowa defense of everyone in sumō.

Liked Aoiyama’s win. I like Aoiyama and Jōkōryū both so I wasn’t sure who I wanted to win.

Hakuhō is back to being the unbeatable beast he was up to some time ago.

Edited September 24, 2014 by ALAKTORN

[Shitamachi 21]

did anyone see else this today? Hakuho - hansoku hair pull? or not???

hakuho day 11.jpg

image:twitter

Seconded! Thought exactly the same thing, if Harumafuji was fusenhansoku, surely this was as well...

Corrected. And yes, I saw and thought that too. But this one was even clearer not the deciding factor for the win. Also, Harumafuji's subsequent kyujo might have given them a good enough scare not to pull a yokozuna like that.

Thanks for the correction.

Am I right in that Hakuho has never been in a match decided by hansoku? How rare is that?

Edit- Hmm, after a bit of probing the database, it seems like there have only been 26 bouts decided by hansoku in Makuuchi since 1955... But they definitely do seem on the rise. Never realized it was so rare.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Shitamachi

[Kotogouryuu 143]

Liked Aoiyama’s win. I like Aoiyama and Jōkōryū both so I wasn’t sure who I wanted to win.

Jōkōryū seemed to expect Aoiyama to go for a pull attack when he was shaken, but Aoiyama instead kept on pushing. A good read of the situation by a very the sharp Aoiyama we have been seeing this basho.

Hakuhō is back to being the unbeatable beast he was up to some time ago.

He is definitely back at the level which he alone occupies. Nagging injuries, personal life issues or whatever, he has dealt with them. Which is good because he is awesome. I just hope eventually we'll see the competition spread out a little.

[Asashosakari 20,215]

The rest of that schedule is:

Day 13: Hakuho-Goeido, Kakuryu-Kisenosato, Takekaze-whoever

Day 14: Hakuho-Kotoshogiku, Kisenosato-whoever, Goeido-Takekaze

Day 15: Kakuryu-Hakuho, Kisenosato-Kotoshogiku, Goeido-whoever

Notice they have plenty of room to maneuver, with a different free top6 every day on top of the Ichinojo bout to take on the likes of Aminishiki or Ikioi. They're leaving the Kakuryu maegashira match for the latest possible day in order to minimize the chance that they actually have to use it against Ichinojo.

FWIW, I doubt they'll deviate from the pre-ordained three soroibumi bouts for Day 15 (which include Goeido-Takekaze).

[shumitto 418]

By the way, about that Takarafuji win yesterday...

They mentioned it during the broadcast, not with all the figures, but as the "first win vs. Ozeki". They seemed quite excited about it.

If my Japanese understanding didn't failed me, Ichonojo said he was planning to go with his usual migi-yotsu, but in the last second he ended up going for the henka.

[Tsubame 378]

Corrected. And yes, I saw and thought that too. But this one was even clearer not the deciding factor for the win. Also, Harumafuji's subsequent kyujo might have given them a good enough scare not to pull a yokozuna like that.

I guess it has more to do with the records Hakuho is about to set (or equalize). Noone wants a tied record with the flaw of a default loss by hansoku. The new coming all time record holder (Hakuho) is not allowed to be marked with any blemish. He has to be perfect...

[evilwaldo 11]

I don't think Hakuho deserves any derision. It does not look to be deliberate.

He has been great for so long that even something small like this will not taint his record. This is not US sports where they look to tear someone down once they come close to a record and every player is a flawed star.

I am more amazed that Hakuho is maintaining another 80 win pace. He talks about retiring in 2 or 3 years but his run from the beginning of last year is one of the best two year runs of all time.

Edited September 24, 2014 by evilwaldo

[torquato 1,075]

When Hakuho once retires we will miss him a lot. I can see us talking: "Can you remember the good old times when we were so fortunate to witness such an Uber-Yokozuna?"

However, I like it when other rikishi catch him. :) Osunaarashi almost got him. And speaking of the Egyptian: Last basho higher in rank with a tougher schedule and ramadan in his backpack he looked much more spirited as he is now.
Because he is forced to find a new tachi-ai that doesn't suit him? Where is his impetus gone?

And what happened to Endo? Even worse. He was just drowning like an iron bar in the sea this basho? Any explanations?

EDIT: Fukurou obviously is baffled over the same question the very same minute... :-D

Edited September 24, 2014 by torquato

[Fukurou 534]

Anyone figured out what Endo's problem is, other than being in over his head?

[Benevolance 2,534]

He's not strong enough yet, and he has a target painted across his chest because he's the kyokai 'wonder boy'. Everyone raises their game when they face him and, man, with the kensho on his matches, can you blame them? It's like a Hakuho payday, but much, much easier to secure.

[evilwaldo 11]

Oosunaarashi's problem is that he comes out of the block too high. His legs are too stiff which negates his upper body strength when guys go low on him.

Watch his matches and you see him get pushed back right after the initial hit.

[Shikona 171]

Clearly a mistake was made in not challenging Kyokutenho early enough, and it's not right to let a low-ranked maegashira waltz to a yusho. And Ichinojo has certainly looked impressive so far. Kisenosato, after a great start, is looking a little doubtful lately. Could easily lose this match. He does not seem to intimidate opponents at all. Takarafuji couldn't get off the dohyo fast enough against Hakuho; today he's a monster.

Ichinojo again using a strong grip on the back of the neck. Very useful; at his height he will see plenty of neck backs to grab.

If you go back and look at the decisions they made for his opponents, he was matched up with high-ranking guys as soon as it was clear he was in contention. After day 11 when they made the day 13 torikumi, Kisenosato had a 2-win lead over 8 rikishi. You can't put Ozeki against all those guys. Kisenosato lost day 12 (to Tochiozan) and only Tochiozan and Kyokutenho won out of the 3-loss group, so the latter two did get tough matches for days 14 and 15. Kyokutenho did end up facing Sekiwake Goeido and Ozeki Kotooshu and beat both of them, so it's not like it just fell to Kyokutenho without having him beat anyone good at all.

The one match that sticks out is Day 13. Paired against a 5-7 M11. Could they really not come up with anything better than that?

Again, he wasn't really in contention after Day 11 when they made the Day 13 pairings. Kisenosato was 10-1 and the following people were 8-3: O Baruto, O Kotoshogiku, M4 Tochiozan, M6 Aoiyama, M7 Kyokutenho, M11 Shotenro, M15 Tamawashi, M16 Takarafuji. Yes, in hindsight it would have probably been better to pair more of the 8-3 maegashira against each other, but there may have been many other factors that went into the choice of torikumi as plenty of those rikishi had already fought each other. There was far more on the minds of the people making the torikumi than making sure all 6 maegashira in contention faced as difficult a schedule as possible. It's only with hindsight that we see "OMG, the yusho winner was given a weak Day 13 opponent" because no one saw him seriously in contention. It was just a fluke that happens only rarely and given the lackluster performance of the top competitors that tournament, someone with a weak schedule was bound to come out on top. If Tochiozan had won the playoff, people would probably be complaining about how convenient is was for Kotooshu to pull out and give Tochiozan the free win.

I'm not saying the oyakata need to be shot, but it's clear they didn't do a great job with the pairings. That they had a lot on their minds, may have been other factors... these things are always true when people make mistakes. Doesn't say they couldn't have done better, which was my point. Obviously you can't say he wasn't in contention when he ends up taking the yusho, so they weren't justified in disregarding him. The joi-jin tradition has this weakness--everyone is in contention for the same yusho, but the guys out of the joi-jin are practically in a different division. Making the schedule two days in advance is a big challenge of course, too; but these are givens. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the potential for a low-ranker to rack up a big score is there and they have to plan for it.

So, back to where this came from--they are perfectly justified in doing a better job with Ichinojo's run this time. If he ends up with the yusho, he will have earned it. (But we have Hakuho in form this basho, so there really is not an issue.)

[Asashosakari 20,215]

I'm not saying the oyakata need to be shot, but it's clear they didn't do a great job with the pairings. That they had a lot on their minds, may have been other factors... these things are always true when people make mistakes. Doesn't say they couldn't have done better, which was my point. Obviously you can't say he wasn't in contention when he ends up taking the yusho, so they weren't justified in disregarding him.

By that logic, everyone who's 6-4 after 10 days is "in contention" because it's almost always possible that the yusho score could go as low as 11-4. You appear to overlook that there's an opportunity cost involved in any challenge-type bout - to completely prevent the (very rare) situations like Kyokutenho's yusho, you have to inflict significant damage to the integrity of almost all other yusho races. Again, there just aren't enough bouts to go around in 15 days to have both the "regular" high-ranker bouts and the challenge bouts for every conceivable candidate from the lower ranks. To criticize the schedule-making from hindsight with the knowledge that one particular rikishi slipped through the net is, quite frankly, unfair. There is no perfect solution.

In any case, what would have been a preferable outcome in that basho? Tochiozan yusho'ing with the only 12-3 record? (From M4, also facing only half the sanyaku...) An 11-4 playoff? The problem in that tournament wasn't that Kyokutenho won the yusho, but that the entire sanyaku population failed at putting together a single 12-win record. No amount of different scheduling would have fixed that.

Edit: As a reminder - outside of Kyokutenho's victory against Tochiozan, maegashira are completely winless in playoff bouts. If the high-rankers had done their jobs, Kyokutenho's 12-win basho would simply be a footnote in sumo history now.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Morty 1,518]

Anyone figured out what Endo's problem is, other than being in over his head?

It looks like total lack of confidence to me. I don't think it's an injury - instead he looks totally unsure of himself or what he should be doing. His head is down a lot and he moves without confidence. Not sure whether he believed the hype and stumbled when it didn't happen or what but he has hit a mental stumbling block that he needs to get past. I still think he has the talent to go all the way so if he can conquer this it will only make him stronger in the long run.

Or he could end up like Kisenosato, who someone on here described the other day as a "head-case" which is pretty apt. His inability to take it to the next level is clearly mental rather than physical. Anyone know if they have sports psychologists in sumo?

[Asojima 2,874]

Ichinojo goes against Kakuryu on Day 13.

[Asashosakari 20,215]

Ichinojo goes against Kakuryu on Day 13.

So just a straight swap of the Day 12 and Day 13 layout after all. I guess the only remaining question is - will they go as far as cancelling the Day 14 Hakuho-Kotoshogiku bout to have Ichinojo face Hakuho? Edited September 25, 2014 by Asashosakari

[torquato 1,075]

Ichinojo goes against Kakuryu on Day 13.

So just a straight swap of the Day 12 and Day 13 layout after all.

But nevertheless nice to be informed about something that has been discussed here....

[Jakusotsu 6,384]

When was the last time a shinyumaku gets the musubi-no-ichiban?

[Asashosakari 20,215]

When was the last time a shinyumaku gets the musubi-no-ichiban?

Goeido seven years ago.

(Incidentally, also a basho in which Kyokutenho sneaked to 12 wins without facing anybody higher than komusubi.)

[Propmanoz 1]

Definitely making sure that Ichinojo gets the toughest schedule possible from now. For a M10 to face Ozeki, Ozeki, Yokozuna on Days 11, 12, 13 - would that be the toughest schedule an M10 has ever faced?

[Asashosakari 20,215]

Gagamaru makekoshi in juryo, and not even particularly close at 4-8. Can't say I was too surprised by his demotion last time, but I didn't think he'd keep falling.

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

Ichinojo goes against Kakuryu on Day 13.

So just a straight swap of the Day 12 and Day 13 layout after all. I guess the only remaining question is - will they go as far as cancelling the Day 14 Hakuho-Kotoshogiku bout to have Ichinojo face Hakuho?

I think if Ichinojo wins today he should face Hakuho. There's still the possibility of Ichinojo going 14-1 and still not even sniffing at a yusho opportunity with Hakuho at 15-0. This wouldn't look right.