Nagoya 2025 discussion (results)

[Hankegami 580]

Didn't post much (nothing, actually) this tournament, but I came over just to say that Aonishiki is amazing. I liked the kid since the beginning, but I would have never dreamed of an Onosato-like level of consistency once he had hit the joy. Man, I just found a new grand favorite.

The arasoi after Day 12 is... interesting. Aonishiki and Kotoshoho - of all people - on the lead. I always slept on Kotoshoho, always dismissed as a low Maegashira guy. I heard a lot of praise for his sumo in this basho, though. He's not a kid in a strict sense - he's 25 - but he's still young and might be reaching his peak as an athlete. My heart weeps for Ichiyamamoto, though. He's barely joy level IMHO (so I do not expect him to get many more chances to Yusho), and he missed a great chance today - twice. Onosato is losing steam - he's backpedaling a lot in the last few days. That's ok, the kid just comes from a back-to-back and he's just showing he's human too. However, I think that's unlikely for him to Yusho at this point, especially with the upper san'yaku yet to be faced.

So, that's Aonishiki Yusho to lose? Yes and no IMHO. He already went through the top guys and he doesn't stop amazing. However, there's plenty of brilliant Maegashira. Three days to go, and three pests to pass through. The torikumi for tomorrow has just come out, and he's pitted against Ichiyamamoto. After him, I bet he's getting Kusano and Kotoshoho in the last two days. Otherwise, he has yet to face troublesome customers such as Hakuoho and Onokatsu, just by looking as his supposed standard schedule as a M1e.

Finally, let's have a chat about the other 9-3 runner-ups. That's, huh, Atamifuji and Kusano. Kusano is a beast. Physically strong and skilled also. WTK showed today that good yotsu-zumo can do the trick, but - like for Onosato - Kusano must be tamed first. Atamifuji, well - I mean, how comes Tomato boy is up here? I mean, I'm glad - fan of him -, but he didn't display any dominant sumo this tournament. He's certainly less wobbly, more confident in both his size and belt skills. But that's it. I am happy he's likely going up some good bit again. He's definitively joy level when ok.

By the way, the Day 13 torikumi just came out. We will get (from top to bottom, arasoi guys only) Kotoshoho vs. Onosato (hard test for Koto boy), Kotozakura vs. Atamifuji (perhaps more interesting than most would expect, given that KZK is not 100%), Kusano vs. Kirishima (Kusano against another belt guy, it'll be interesting) and - as I already said - Aonishiki vs. Ichiyamamoto. The brain and the heart both scream for Aonishiki to win, but Itchy has a last chance to get back to the Yusho train here. A rather uncharacteristic Day 13, but its' only fair for the upstarts to have a test with the joy.

[Jyuunomori 238]

Aonishiki is just great, Tamawashi fought super well and he had great tachiai but got dispatched anyway. It should be almost guaranteed that Aonishiki wins the Gino-sho, his technical performance is so brilliant. If he wins Yusho he better get the Shukun-sho as well. Kanto-sho? He's shown a lot of fight, but I think he will miss out on that one by being ranked this high but I personally wouldn't mind him getting Kanto-sho hat-trick. Hopefully he will be S2w next Basho, unless he gets K1w.

[Heather82Cs 6]

I actually thought Onosato had won that bout, for reasons I can't really explain. Will he be forced to kyujo if he loses tomorrow or Saturday? Honestly, if he does end up winning this basho I can't even complain, and I say that as a Hosh fan.

 

I also wonder if the Isegahama/Miyagino group is doing not so bad because they train hard with that Ochiro-SuperSaiyan guy.

 

Also, where do I go to bet my life savings on /checks notes... Koto...shoho?

 

PS: love how things are still pretty much in the air in juryo too. (I ain't talking favorites over all because I am getting superstitious AF).

Edited July 24 by Heather82Cs

[Sakura 1,520]

6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I guess I'm the only one who thinks this is a positive major change. It's the first time ever (didn't check, but pretty sure) that a torikumi is delayed for day 12. And that's good, because the torikumi is very tight and interesting. Pitting 7-4s against 4-7s, uninvolved 5-6/6-5 against each other, leaders against each other etc. Wherever they could of course, But I see this as a giant step forward, away from  old traditions that are irrelevant. I am all for traditions, but let's make it more interesting and relevant if and when we can.

I like the change too. With the low leading score, so many maegashira are still in contention. Instead of guessing who will win, they wait and see and then make the torikumi. It also puts the guess back into Guess Ura's Aite.

[RabidJohn 2,010]

38 minutes ago, Heather82Cs said:

Also, where do I go to bet my life savings on /checks notes... Koto...shoho?

We've seen him pull a JY out of thin air before. It's something of a mirage unless/until some consistency proves otherwise.

[WAKATAKE 2,758]

Kotoshoho has a chance to break the all time record for lowest kinboshi winner on day 13. The last time an entry was made into the top 10 list was Kotonishiki during his second hiramaku yusho in 1998 against Takanohana

[dingo 1,454]

What an exciting day! Though my initial idea of Kirishima as the yusho front runner got crushed today, there's still plenty of the more unusual candidates in the running. 

Fujinokawa continues his impressive basho with an emphatic throw on Tokihayate. Just one more win to go until kachikoshi and looking at his sumo I'm hopeful he'll get it before the last day.

I was thinking  already earlier when is Chiyoshoma going to get easier opponents and sure enough he got Kayo today. There's also Hidenoumi who is likely to become another donor in avoiding an even more embarassing makekoshi. Sadanoumi is in the same boat and actually gets Hidenoumi tomorrow, and probably Kayo a bit later so has a chance to narrowly avoid juryo demotion.

You know Takerufuji is not in a good shape when Shodai beats him. On the other hand, sadly it says a lot about the current Shodai when we talk about him as the unlikely victor against even an injured Takerufuji...

Kotozakura did arguably his best sumo of the basho against Kirishima, taking a huge step closer to avoiding kadoban. When the bout settled down I thought Kotozakura might run out of stamina first, but he had a great battle plan and executed the pivotal makikae very well. Well deserved, since Kirishima this basho is basically doing ozeki sumo.

Onosato got incredibly lucky today. That pulldown was a bad move and only the split second timing of both rikishi falling together spared him from an embarrassment against Ichiyamamoto. In the redo bout the shin-yokozuna did what he should've done right away and went straightforward against his opponent. A wobbly win but most importanly he stays in the yusho race and if he does manage to pick up the cup in the end, the wobbles will be forgotten soon enough.

[Tigerboy1966 1,615]

On 23/07/2025 at 00:35, Kaninoyama said:

If Tamawashi yushos again is he the greatest non-Ozeki wrestler of all time? Is he already regardless? 

He's the best of the last decade, which is as long as I have been watching. Kotonishiki was before my time, but he had 2 yusho, 4 jun-yusho, 21 basho at sekiwake and 8 kinboshi; Tamawashi's corresponding numbers are 2, 1, 8 and 8.

If anyone was watching sumo in the 90's please let us know how you think these two compare,

[Jakusotsu 6,320]

4 hours ago, dingo said:

In the redo bout the shin-yokozuna did what he should've done right away and went straightforward against his opponent.

No, he didn't. He was backpedaling yet again until he finally got into the groove.

[Halian 7]

Spoiler

What did Shishi do on day 12? The gunbai went to him, but the database says he lost by hansoku.

 

Edited July 24 by Halian

[Tsurukame 15]

Spoiler

It was explained as a hair pull. Looked accidental to me when I was watching, and I don't feel like he's the type to play foul,  but I may have missed something.

 

[Calamityama 26]

Hair pulling.

[Suwihuto 143]

9 hours ago, Heather82Cs said:

I actually thought Onosato had won that bout, for reasons I can't really explain. Will he be forced to kyujo if he loses tomorrow or Saturday? Honestly, if he does end up winning this basho I can't even complain, and I say that as a Hosh fan.

I doubt it. He's got his KK, a 10-5 at least for a shin-Yok is a steady result. And he may well yet get the Yusho.

[Heather82Cs 6]

Re: the upper sanyaku yet to be faced - just like they made him face Kirishima last basho, right? Right?

[Reonito 1,747]

16 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I guess I'm the only one who thinks this is a positive major change. It's the first time ever (didn't check, but pretty sure) that a torikumi is delayed for day 12. And that's good, because the torikumi is very tight and interesting. Pitting 7-4s against 4-7s, uninvolved 5-6/6-5 against each other, leaders against each other etc. Wherever they could of course, But I see this as a giant step forward, away from  old traditions that are irrelevant. I am all for traditions, but let's make it more interesting and relevant if and when we can.

Out of reacts, but I couldn't agree more.

[Godango 1,092]

Chiming in for the first time this basho to pointlessly echo some sentiments and add a couple of thoughts.

1. Aonishiki looks like the real deal. Super impressive. But if recent history tells us anything there will likely be a little dip in the next basho or two that will show us what he's really made of. He is certainly looking like an upper sanyaku in the making though. The Japanese crowd loves him, too, when I attended day two.
2. I hate to admit it, but part of me was relieved to see Takayasu lose on day 12. I can't take that kind of last minute hope and heartbreak again.
3. Granted, I haven't been around much this tournament -- but are the usual suspects here coming for Onosato the same way they did Hoshoryu after giving away a few kinboshi as a new yokozuna?
   1. I am aware that this point isn't helped by Hoshoryu's performance and withdrawal this tournament, but it's still valid.
4. I still think the smart money is on an Onosato yusho but I'm very excited at the strong possibility of me being wrong.

Edited July 24 by Godango
Corrected Takayasu's loss day.

[Reonito 1,747]

2 hours ago, Calamityama said:

Hair pulling.

Doesn't matter if it's inadvertent—intent doesn't come into it, if the fingers are caught in the hair and contribute to the opponent getting pulled forward/down, it's hansoku.

[Reonito 1,747]

40 minutes ago, Suwihuto said:

I doubt it. He's got his KK, a 10-5 at least for a shin-Yok is a steady result. And he may well yet get the Yusho.

He'd still be in the race at least mathematically, too. No idea where the talk of a yokozuna pulling out just because he's not leading the yusho race comes from. Plenty of examples of recent yokozuna finishing with 9-10 wins, including Hakuho.

[Akinomaki 41,570]

15 minutes ago, Reonito said:

No idea where the talk of a yokozuna pulling out just because he's not leading the yusho race comes from. Plenty of examples of recent yokozuna finishing with 9-10 wins, including Hakuho.

He might have pulled out, had he lost to Kirishima: losses in a row and the 4th loss already on day 11 would have been a borderline performance for him and a sign for an injury, though still better than Hoshoryu, who pulled out like that after day 9

[Reonito 1,747]

Tsushimanada's kimarite looked a lot more exotic than uwatenage.

Edited July 24 by Reonito

[Heather82Cs 6]

3 hours ago, Reonito said:

He'd still be in the race at least mathematically, too. No idea where the talk of a yokozuna pulling out just because he's not leading the yusho race comes from. Plenty of examples of recent yokozuna finishing with 9-10 wins, including Hakuho.

If you refer to my question, it's not so much for the number of losses that I thought it was an option, more for the number of kinboshi to avoid making his debut too harsh- am admittedly ignorant on the matter. Thanks for beating me at getting that query done.

[Katooshu 3,464]

I think there has been a hyper fixation in some quarters about kinboshi. I've even seen suggestions, especially on Reddit, that Onosato's 9-3 this tournament isn't any better than Hoshoryu going 5-5-5 or 1-4-11, because he gave away just as many kinboshi as the latter, as if only those matches count. A yokozuna on track for double digit wins isn't going to be forced out of the tournament.

Edited July 25 by Katooshu

[Godango 1,092]

It's crazy to think Onosato would withdraw. He's still very much in the race.

[Reonito 1,747]

Yokozuna in the 6-basho era who finished a basho while giving up at least 4 kinboshi. Memorably, one of the them even won the yusho! (If you expand the query to 3 or more, you get a lot of results).

[Reonito 1,747]

25 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

I think there has been a hyper fixation in some quarters about kinboshi. I've even seen suggestions, especially on Reddit, that Onosato's 9-3 this tournament isn't any better than Hoshoryu going 5-5-5 or 1-4-11, because he gave away just as many kinboshi as the latter, as if only those matches count. A yokozuna on track for double digit wins isn't going to be forced out of the tournament.

Kinboshi is a gold star for the maegashira, not a black mark for the yokozuna.