Hatsu 2020 Basho Discussion (SPOILERS)

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

Abi vs. Enho threatens to be a one sided affair for the forseeable future.

Enho -> too low a target, while

Abi -> too long legs

[Morty 1,505]

On 22/01/2020 at 21:28, Jakusotsu said:

Well, Tokushoryu won his last four encounters with Kagayaki and is 2-3 against Yutakayama (winning the most recent), so go figure...

And here is me saying you were right and I was wrong Part Two. 

[Morty 1,505]

This basho has had the fabulous spectacle of Tochinoshin lifting and carrying Enho out of the dohyo, and now Enho lifting and carrying Abi out of the dohyo, in an equally spectacular, but entirely different way 

[Kishinoyama 596]

So.... Enho for the Gino-sho?

[RabidJohn 1,858]

1 minute ago, Morty said:

This basho has had the fabulous spectacle of Tochinoshin lifting and carrying Enho out of the dohyo, and now Enho lifting and carrying Abi out of the dohyo, in an equally spectacular, but entirely different way 

I agree it was spectacular, but Enho did not lift and carry Abi out of the ring. Abi tried to jump sideways at the tawara, which is how he ended up so high in the air. All Enho did was lift Abi's leg and push a bit. That's not to take anything away from Hakuho's Mini-Me; he's worked hard for and thoroughly deserves his joi KK.

I'm also wondering where that Takayasu has been hiding all tournament. Pity he couldn't have shown similar spirit throughout, as it would have won most of his bouts for him.

Normally when an underdog is leading the yusho race, I root for him, but I'm not rooting for either Shodai or Tokushoryu. My ideal scenario is the winner of their match-up tomorrow loses on senshuraku, while Takakeisho wins out, leading to a 2- or 3-way play-off.

[Philioyamfugi 378]

Great changing of the guard basho and looking like a thrilling finish.  How much takakeisho matured, He was always under control and patient. Go Asonmanya, we need another ozeki !

[robnplunder 976]

 

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Normally when an underdog is leading the yusho race, I root for him, but I'm not rooting for either Shodai or Tokushoryu. My ideal scenario is the winner of their match-up tomorrow loses on senshuraku, while Takakeisho wins out, leading to a 2- or 3-way play-off.

It would be a fair result for Takakeisho (or Shodai) to take the yusho.   Tokushoryu's winning it all would amount to stealing one, having faced mostly the bottom feeders of Makuuchi.  For that reason, I'd be ok to see Takakeisho or Shodai to prevail.   OTOH, why not root for an M17 to take it all?   It's like Jamaican bobsled team winning the Olympic gold medal.   Well, perhaps, it isn't that dramatic but you get the picture. 

The collapse of Ozeki ranks in the last few basho is a big surprise and a downer.   (Where have all the Ozekis gone?  Long time passing.  Where have all the Ozekis gone.   Long time ago.  Where have all the Ozekis gone?  MKs got them everyone.  When will they ever learn?   When will they ever learn?)

[Eikokurai 3,437]

24 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

It would be a fair result for Takakeisho (or Shodai) to take the yusho.   Tokushoryu's winning it all would amount to stealing one, having faced mostly the bottom feeders of Makuuchi.  For that reason, I'd be ok to see Takakeisho or Shodai to prevail.   OTOH, why not root for an M17 to take it all?   It's like Jamaican bobsled team winning the Olympic gold medal.   Well, perhaps, it isn't that dramatic but you get the picture. 

The collapse of Ozeki ranks in the last few basho is a big surprise and a downer.   (Where have all the Ozekis gone?  Long time passing.  Where have all the Ozekis gone.   Long time ago.  Where have all the Ozekis gone?  MKs got them everyone.  When will they ever learn?   When will they ever learn?)

But that's how the sumo yusho systems works. It's not awarded to the best wrestler, but to the guy who gets the best record in his schedule, against his peers. Tokoshoryu may have fought easier opponents, but he himself is theoretically an easy opponent, so it balances out. If an Ozeki fought the bottom ranks and Tokushoryu fought the joi, that would be unfair as the former would be getting an easy ride and the latter a harder one. This is why yusho by Y/O/S/K are more highly regarded - they fought a tougher schedule to get it. But that's part of earning the rank in the first place.

Think of sumo as having an affirmative action yusho system.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Eikokurai

[Eikokurai 3,437]

1 hour ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Abi vs. Enho threatens to be a one sided affair for the forseeable future.

Enho -> too low a target, while

Abi -> too long legs

You can call it "The battle of the 炎" 

阿炎 = Abi

炎鵬 = Enho

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

11 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Think of sumo as having an affirmative action yusho system.

Not at all! Sumo is purely capitalist. Equal opportunities, may the better man win. Life is unfair, and sumo echoes life. Just like society, sumo does its damnedest to even the odds, but no system can do that perfectly. Randomness is what it is. It cannot be removed from the equation. Hakuho and a few of his peers have gamed sumo over the generations, but this is Japan!

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Just now, Otokonoyama said:

Not at all! Sumo is purely capitalist. Equal opportunities, may the better man win. Life is unfair, and sumo echoes life. Just like society, sumo does its damnedest to even the odds, but no system can do that perfectly. Randomness is what it is. It cannot be removed from the equation. Hakuho and a few of his peers have gamed sumo over the generations, but this is Japan!

Affirmative in the sense that the less talented get an easier ride to their kachikoshi and the yusho. A truly cutthroat capitalist system would throw them to the wolves and be done with it.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

3 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Affirmative in the sense that the less talented get an easier ride to their kachikoshi and the yusho. A truly cutthroat capitalist system would throw them to the wolves and be done with it.

Cutthroatism is in the tails. Lehman Brothers lived and died in the tails, and so will Hakuho. Us mere mortals all of us enjoy an easier schedule.

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

24 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Affirmative in the sense that the less talented get an easier ride to their kachikoshi and the yusho. A truly cutthroat capitalist system would throw them to the wolves and be done with it.

It is very exceptional this basho, that a low ranker on the leaderboard had the opportunity to continue winning against other low rankers for so many days. Traditionally, an M10+ who stands at 8-1 will be fed to the meatgrinder guys starting from days 10 or 11 at the latest. Tokushoryu's highest ranking opponent was mighty Aoiyama (M8!) on day 11.

I wonder if they didn't trust anyone further up to play show stopper, or -- behold! -- if it was a pure suspense keeping marketing decision.

[dazunoyama 2]

My preferred Day 15:

Shodai vs Endo

Tokushoryu vs Takakeisho 

 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

19 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

It is very exceptional this basho, that a low ranker on the leaderboard had the opportunity to continue winning against other low rankers for so many days. Traditionally, an M10+ who stands at 8-1 will be fed to the meatgrinder guys starting from days 10 or 11 at the latest. Tokushoryu's highest ranking opponent was mighty Aoiyama (M8!) on day 11.

I wonder if they didn't trust anyone further up to play show stopper, or -- behold! -- if it was a pure suspense keeping marketing decision.

Yes, that’s true when the low-ranker is leading the race, though not always if there’s a higher ranked guy also in the lead, which Shodai is (sort of). Anyway, 10-11 days of easy ride before that happens still gives a low-ranker a big head start. 

[autotroph 43]

In addition to staying one off the pace, I'm very happy to see Takakeisho put up a proper Ozeki record for the first time.

Earning the rank, losing it (through injury), earning it back but getting another injury: a tough few basho! 

The Orbular One's iron will is an inspiration.

[Rocks 1,809]

4 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Man, if Takayasu had brought that fire with him from day one he might not be an ex-Ozeki.

Takakeisho keeps the yusho dream alive.

Pretty weird watching Takayasu and Goeido fighting this basho. Basically only putting up real effort against other Ozeki or former Ozeki. You would think they were still cruising through the rest of their schedule like in the past instead of losing left and right.

[Jakusotsu 6,052]

2 hours ago, Philioyamfugi said:

Go Asonmanya, we need another ozeki !

Who??

[dada78641 884]

I don't know if anyone already went into the database to find out what the lowest ranked victory of all times is, but I was able to find that in January 1939 an M17w won the top division (back when it had 13 bouts). And I don't know what the lowest ranked victory is in the modern era but I believe M14 has happened several times, right?

I'm really rooting for Tokushoryu now. This has been a great tournament for my faves. Enho and Hokutofuji are doing splendidly at a high rank. I'm hoping Ishiura can still pull off a KK too.

It's not that I dislike Shodai. I'd be perfectly glad if he won it too. But Tokushoryu at M17 would be such a massive win I can't help but root for that.

Edited January 24, 2020 by dada78641

[Jakusotsu 6,052]

3 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

And I don't know what the lowest ranked victory is in the modern era but I believe M14 has happened several times, right?

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=1&form1_rank=m10-m30&form1_y=on&form1_m=on

[dada78641 884]

4 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=1&form1_rank=m10-m30&form1_y=on&form1_m=on

Thank you!

[Akinomaki 40,822]

26 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

3 hours ago, Philioyamfugi said:

Go Asonmanya, we need another ozeki !

Who??

Hasta mañana to Mt. Morning

[dada78641 884]

Just wanted to post this screenshot of Enho's amazing ashi-tori. I'm sure no one will bet against this appearing in the highlights reel when the basho is over.

I feel that we're watching a shonen manga about a young new wrestler in real life here. The David vs an entire army of Goliaths.

[YoungSumo 93]

Tokushoryu winning would not be stealing it. He has been facing increasingly harder opponents the last few days and he keeps winning in impressive fashion. If he beats Shodai and manages another strong win on the final day it'd be very well deserved.

That said I'd be surprised if he gets past Shodai tomorrow. 

[Kaminariyuki 500]

5 hours ago, Kishinoyama said:

So.... Enho for the Gino-sho?

If I were voting, it would be kanto-sho, but I would think if he wins again on Day 14, he'll be in contention for a prize. If he actually manages to win on both of the last days, I would think one of the sansho are quite likely. Otherwise, there may be crowd discontent.