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Natsu basho 2019 discussions [SPOILERS]

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3 hours ago, Ichimawashi said:

That picture, as they say in the NFL, is inconclusive.  There is another angle from directly behind that is even better in showing that his heel was not far enough down.

A bunch of photographers sitting at dohyo level taking multiple shots of the final seconds of that bout.  Their angle/view could be decisive.  If they produce a photo with Tochinoshin's heel actually touching the sand, then I will eat my aluminium foil hat (clearly I haven't learned from Kintayama's example re Takakeisho's Ozeki promotion).

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1 minute ago, autotroph said:

What a bloody day! I am in utter disbelief. Another reminder that if you try to think of sumo in the same way as other sports, you'll have a bad time.

Really? I don't think people being upset over bad referee calls is unusual in other sports.

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The judges are seated and see the clay at an angle that is closer to eye level than the cameras.

If one judge firmly rules that the call should be overturned, and the people watching the video replay can't or don't successfully intervene before the head judge decides to accounce the result, the result is probably not going to be gunbai-dori.

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Tochinoshin did not appear to be out. I hope that shimpan gets an ear full from his superiors as well as the press. If Tochinoshin ends up permanently demoted because of this, I swear...

Going to be watching English language sumo news closely for word on Enho.

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This basho is scary. New fanfavorites hurting themselves, clear fixes to push a Japanese into Trump's recipient win, Takanofuji forcing his way back to the sekitori ranks... My tinfoil hat is telling me that booking Goeido rather than Takayasu for Asanoyama's opponent is purely on the basis that Goeido is easier to coerce into conceding a loss.

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I'm under the assumption that once the head judge announces the result, there's nobody who can reverse the result (monoii is final verdict).

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I watched the video from the sumo channel which shows a good angle, some people pointed out in the comments that we can see  Tochinoshin's heal mark in the sand around 4:49, before Asanoyama fell and sent the sand flying around. I watched many times and I believe there's a mark. Mark or no mark it was so close and  the discussion was too long, some of the judges changed their mind... if they were unsure why didn't they call for torinaoshi ?

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7 minutes ago, Fukuyamada said:

I'm under the assumption that once the head judge announces the result, there's nobody who can reverse the result (monoii is final verdict).

Yes, decisions cannot be reversed after the fact.

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I hope this travesty has been moved to the top of the agenda for talks between Trump and Abe.

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Posted (edited)

Which judge was it that was sitting on the west side and made that call?

Absolutely devastating for Tochinoshin. You could see from his little fist pump right after match that he was convinced he was an ozeki again. Now he has to try to put it out of his mind and try again tomorrow.

Edited by ryafuji

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I wonder if Hakuho is sitting at home thinking " I'm so glad I sat this one out..."?

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3 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

I watched the video from the sumo channel which shows a good angle, some people pointed out in the comments that we can see  Tochinoshin's heal mark in the sand around 4:49, before Asanoyama fell and sent the sand flying around. I watched many times and I believe there's a mark. Mark or no mark it was so close and  the discussion was too long, some of the judges changed their mind... if they were unsure why didn't they call for torinaoshi ?

Touch's sagari touches the sand after his heel comes up. Perhaps that was the mark you saw. Watching this video at 4:13 you can see that there is no mark before the sagari touches the sand. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

I watched the video from the sumo channel which shows a good angle, some people pointed out in the comments that we can see  Tochinoshin's heal mark in the sand around 4:49, before Asanoyama fell and sent the sand flying around. I watched many times and I believe there's a mark. Mark or no mark it was so close and  the discussion was too long, some of the judges changed their mind... if they were unsure why didn't they call for torinaoshi ?

Do you have a link for this?

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9 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Do you have a link for this?

@Otokonoyama Posted the link to the video earlier, if you want I can post it again but it's already in the thread :)

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spf0809211939005-p3.jpg

September basho 2008 Asashoryu was on the receiving end a similar call. IIRC it was a lot close than this case.
http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/16231-asashouryu-just-got-screwed/

When I searched just now...I had to laugh. I started the thread..Hah, guess I should disqualify myself my these dodgy tawara call debates. I'm not impartial ;)

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12 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

@Otokonoyama Posted the link to the video earlier, if you want I can post it again but it's already in the thread :)

I watched that 4 or 5 times back and forth frame by frame. I can't see a mark.

This picture from that video is after his heal has gone down and come up. 

 

tochi.jpg

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I took a shot of what I think can be the mark the picture is too heavy to be posted any idea on what I could do ?

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Just now, Rainoyama said:

I took a shot of what I think can be the mark the picture is too heavy to be posted any idea on what I could do ?

Save it as a jpeg and check your history to clear old stuff you posted.

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1 hour ago, Jaakunakunshu said:

Really? I don't think people being upset over bad referee calls is unusual in other sports.

I agree there are bad referee decisions in every sport. What I meant was that in other sports very bad or controversial decisions have the chance to be addressed by committees, other refs, yadda yadda yadda. For example, in rugby, if a player was to punch another and it was missed during the game, at any time the governing body can review the video evidence and issue a punishment. In sumo, decisions like this are instantly concretised and will now stand until the ice caps melt. There is no recourse or appeal in any way. If the judges are reprimanded it will occur behind closed doors and nothing but rumour or conjecture will reach the surface. That's just the way it is.

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1 hour ago, neonbelly said:

In addition to red bumps we now have THE TOKYO SCREWJOB.

Pretty much yeah (and damn you for stealing my "joke").

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In watching the whole video it is interesting to see not just a long discussion but how animated it is and how little time it seems he is listening to his ear piece for advice. I think the video team said it was inconclusive and the judges nearest to the action insisted he stepped out and they went with it. A very bad call in my opinion.  If the video was no help then the call should have stood IMHO. 

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