Breaking News - Police to Charge Tokitsukaze oyakata

[Itachiyama 121]

Musashigawa-beya has/had kind of a trainer. Appeared as a really rough guy who hit lower rank Rikishi with a stick regularly. Maybe it's him. Just a thought.

[ilovesumo 12]

Civilian???Huh? (Whistling...)

The man was in charge of cooking but left the stable following the incident

Must have been a Rikishi. Do they have a civilian cook?

Edited October 4, 2007 by ilovesumo

[aderechelsea 125]

a civilian cook

hmmmm ...... if you hear about a vacant position send me an e-mail .... (Doing a wave...)

(Singing drunk...)

(Whistling...)

[Kintamayama 47,331]

Civilian???Huh? (Whistling...)

The man was in charge of cooking but left the stable following the incident

Must have been a Rikishi. Do they have a civilian cook?

Some heya have "civilian" managers that do the cooking, yes. In any case, no Musashigawa thirty year old plus guy has retired recently and this happened in June.. The Japanese article refers to him as a "male". They would have referred to him as "deshi" or "rikishi" if it were so. He is/was definitely not a rikishi. And the article says he was fired.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 47,331]

Ok, but why is Yamawake quoted as "thus I beat him as part of my teaching". Beating a civilian?..

Yes, that was a strange sentence, but still, everything else points to his being a civilian.

[Kintamayama 47,331]

Ok, but why is Yamawake quoted as "thus I beat him as part of my teaching". Beating a civilian?..

Yes, that was a strange sentence, but still, everything else points to his being a civilian.

OK, I was totally wrong - he was a rikishi at the heya and was released immediately after the incident, should be Koshinoyama. Yamawake received many complaints from shindeshi that this rikishi was being especially mean to them. "I wanted to show him what it feels like. I went too far", admitted Yamawake Oyakata. "This was a case of leadership going too far. That is totally inexcusable", added Musashigawa Oyakata, boss of the stable where it happened. He was put in an awkward position, as he is heading the Tokitsukaze beya investigation..

The guy immediately quit the heya after the incident. "There are some young rikishi that quit sumo because of this rikishi too", countered Musashigawa Oyakata, who is contemplating a counter-suit.

So, now will they be kicking Yamawake out as well??

Edited October 4, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Jonosuke 28]

Man, if they start charging guys with something like this, there won't be any Ozumo left or even some club activities in colleges and high schools in Japan.

Wakanoyama is one of the nicest guys around - a defender of justice and protector of the weak.

Koshinoyama has been beating up junior rikishi for no reason and all Wakanoyama wanted to do was to show him how painful his conduct was to others.

So Wakanoyama let him sit on a beer box holding a dumbell just like he forced other junior rikishi to do. Wakanoyama then wrapped a towel around a bamboo stick and hit him on arms one or twice.

According to Musashigawa oyakata, several recruits left because of Koshinoyama's violent behavior.

If there was anything wrong with Wakaoyama or Musashigawa, it's just a fact that they let this guy stay around the heya long enough to punish other recruits for no good reason.

Koshinoyama likely got forced out of the heya, mostly of his rather feeble records but he must have some grudges against the heya and he just decided to exploit the latest issue and cried all over police to tell them how bad he was injured and badly treated by the heya.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Jonosuke

[Kintamayama 47,331]

Shikoroyama and Tatsutayama Oyakatas went to visit the bereaved family today. "As a representative of the Ichimon, I went to visit the family and offer condolences and the ceremonial incense stick. His father spoke fondly of him", said Shikoroyama. Asked about the family's attitude, he said " They were sad but not angry". They then returned to Tokyo and reported to Isenoumi Oyakata.

[Asashosakari 20,281]

Koshinoyama likely got forced out of the heya, mostly of his rather feeble records but he must have some grudges against the heya and he just decided to exploit the latest issue and cried all over police to tell them how bad he was injured and badly treated by the heya.

I agree. This latest thing sounds like completely ridiculous bandwagon-jumping to me, and if the facts as reported so far are accurate, it's insane that Wakanoyama is the one being charged over all this.

At any rate, with "two weeks to heal", it can't have been much more than a deep bruise or a smallish laceration, I suspect.

[Kintamayama 47,331]

At any rate, with "two weeks to heal", it can't have been much more than a deep bruise or a smallish laceration, I suspect.

Ah, but will he participate in the coming jungyo?

[Asashosakari 20,281]

At any rate, with "two weeks to heal", it can't have been much more than a deep bruise or a smallish laceration, I suspect.

Ah, but will he participate in the coming jungyo?

Yes, but only if both halfs of his dissociative personality agree to it.

[sekitori 492]

We have a TV channel in the U.S. called Court TV. Much of its coverage consists of trials that are shown live. There is a currently a trial in Florida being shown that is remarkably similar to the Tokitsukaze situation.

Florida and other states have established what are called boot camps for young criminals who have committed serious offenses. Instead of being put in prison, they undergo training similar to that of military recruits which supposedly teaches them respect for authority. It gets them into good physical condition and off of drug dependency (if that's necessary) and provides them opportunities for receiving the scholastic education they never had before. There are times when minimal corporal punishment is administered, provided that there is unanimous agreement that it's needed. It is supposed to be the least amount of punishment possible that's effective and it's also supposed to be monitored very closely. Boot camp a very rigorous program, both physically and mentally but proponents believe it's a lot better than putting these juveniles in prison where there is virtually no chance of rehabilitation. They seem to think that it provides a better chance that they will not revert to crime again and won't return to prison.

In the Florida case, a young offender who commited car theft and then violated his probation (he was 14 years old) continually caused problems in one of these camps. He behavior became virtually uncontrollable and guards were instructed to provide minimal punishment. But it appears that they overdid things to an extreme. He was severely beaten and the cause of death was listed as oxygen deprivation because ammonia capsules were used excessively for an extended period of time. The entire incident lasted about a half hour. Eight people were accused of what is called "aggravated manslaughter" among other charges. In Florida, aggravated manslaughter could possibly result in up to a 30 year prison sentence. The defense says the victim had a medical condition which caused his death and that the punishment was not the cause. I don't think that condition included impetigo contagiosa.

As I watch the trial (which has just begun), I keep thinking how amazingly similar this situation is to the one at Tokitsukaze beya. In the U.S. incident, there is even more proof because there is video footage backing up the charges. While I believe that some of those involved in Japan are juveniles, all of those accused in Florida are adults. It seems that Japan isn't the only place in the world where the concept of discipline has gone completely crazy. (Whistling...)

[Kuroyama 715]

This "impetigo contagiosa" (sorry, not at the English Wikipedia, but I found it at the German)

English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impetigo

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstStory/i...?storyid=340876

As of 14:18. Kyodo News has been reporting Tokitsukaze was fired. The banner on the top of the article (which is from morning, and speculates he will be fired) began displaying "fired" from 2:18 p.m.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

There's an article up now on their Japanese language page.

In addition to the firing of Tokitsukaze, chief director Kitanoumi received a 50 % salary cut for 4 months and the 9 directors 30% for 3 months each.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Otokonoyama

[Kintamayama 47,331]

Additionally, a Tokitsukaze successor will be decided on the 9th. This is the first time an active heya owning Oyakata has been dismissed. As for punishing the rikishi involved, as there is an ongoing police investigation, nothing has been decided for now, and the Kyokai will look into this at a later time.

Already some papers are asking if the collective punishment of the riji, i.e. monetary, is an apt one.

Sad day for sumo.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 20,281]

Already some papers are asking if the collective punishment of the riji, i.e. monetary, is an apt one.

If nothing else, it fits the pattern established by incidents like Kyokutenho's driving and Asashoryu's AWOLness. Personally, I think it's fair enough given the circumstances, but then I've never understood why people were suddenly calling for Kitanoumi's head over this. (Or more generally, why executives are supposed to fall on their sword at all when some semi-distant employee of theirs has gone out of control.)

[ilovesumo 12]

Already some papers are asking if the collective punishment of the riji, i.e. monetary, is an apt one.

If nothing else, it fits the pattern established by incidents like Kyokutenho's driving and Asashoryu's AWOLness. Personally, I think it's fair enough given the circumstances, but then I've never understood why people were suddenly calling for Kitanoumi's head over this. (Or more generally, why executives are supposed to fall on their sword at all when some semi-distant employee of theirs has gone out of control.)

Ist't that the japanese way?

If one member of a group makes a big mistake, the head of the group retires. (?)

Edit: Sure, we have this in other nations too.

Edited October 5, 2007 by ilovesumo

[Jonosuke 28]

When a company suffers a breakdown of sort either financially or organizationally, the person at the top usually pays. The shareholders will be screaming for their head. In Japan or elsewhere with the position, more responsibility is demanded.

Back in 1960s, one chairman of the Kyokai attempted a suicide while the parliament committee investigated Kyokai's hanlding of rikishi's well being, things like pensions and salary. Obviously no one is asking for Kitanoumi oyakata's life but certainly from a point of view of letting Ozumo fall into such a disarray, he should take some responsibility.

The Kyushu basho is in a deep trouble as there are voices heard in Japan to boycott the basho and demanding NHK to stop its broadcast. NHK itself is rather a precarious state as its chairman is openly feuding with a newly created management committee to "advice" NHK of its overall operations.

The Kyokai is also losing its supporters as they are leaving them in droves so each heya and their rikishi are hurting significantly from a financial point of view. Many in and out of the Kyokai consider they need a new regime at the top right now.

[Fay 1,677]

The Kyokai is also losing its supporters as they are leaving them in droves so each heya and their rikishi are hurting significantly from a financial point of view. Many in and out of the Kyokai consider they need a new regime at the top right now.

I was already wondering about it last basho. Only two thirds of the people who normally go to the senshuraku party were there. The Oyakata seemed a bit concerned and so was the chairman of the kouenkai. But because there was a national holiday the next day the oyakata said this may be the reason.

I myself felt quite pampered this basho by some people, although I'm far away from being a big company sponsor. But this was maybe because I am such a nice person (In a state of confusion...) .

Edited October 5, 2007 by Fay

[Asashosakari 20,281]

When a company suffers a breakdown of sort either financially or organizationally, the person at the top usually pays. The shareholders will be screaming for their head. In Japan or elsewhere with the position, more responsibility is demanded.

Sure. If, say, one of the riji had been faking the Kyokai's accounts and stealing tons of money, and been doing it right under Kitanoumi's nose, I could understand charging him as being responsible from an organizational point of view. But in this case, Kitanoumi is isolated by so many layers of hierarchy from what goes on in each individual stable, I just don't see what the point of him getting removed from his position would be. It would be a public relations feel-good gesture, not any acknowledgement of actual responsibility, and I consider those extremely dumb in almost all cases. (Of course, one could argue that those many layers of hierarchy are a problem in themselves, but it hardly feels fair to blame the current top guy for organizational structures that have grown over decades.)

I'd actually feel more comfortable calling for his head over the Asashoryu thing, because that seemed to show a breakdown at the highest levels; or rather, it was showed by the fact that Asashoryu had never been censured effectively until now and they suddenly had to scramble. But I guess the people now calling for his resignation wouldn't have looked too good publicly if they'd made the same calls back then, but oh, they sure look much better now that the 'problem' is a dead teenager rather than an unruly yokozuna that nobody had much sympathy for. Even if those calls are much more off-target in the current case.

If the resignation demands were of a "we're fed up with the way this leadership has taken us downhill on all counts" type, I suppose I could get behind it, too, but that isn't the vibe I'm getting here. It seems a lot more like people with a grudge taking advantage of a current public-relations nightmare, no matter what the actual facts are.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Asashosakari

[Jeronimozo 3]

As of 14:18. Kyodo News has been reporting Tokitsukaze was fired. The banner on the top of the article (which is from morning, and speculates he will be fired) began displaying "fired" from 2:18 p.m.

A quick reaction by the Austrian "Die Presse". (In a state of confusion...)

[Fukurou 534]

As of 14:18. Kyodo News has been reporting Tokitsukaze was fired. The banner on the top of the article (which is from morning, and speculates he will be fired) began displaying "fired" from 2:18 p.m.

A quick reaction by the Austrian "Die Presse". (In a state of confusion...)

"One day after the impact with the bottle the dte rodent had died."

Sometimes I just love Babelfish.....

[Jonosuke 28]

Chairman of the Sumo Kyokai, Kitanoumi oyakata Press Conference

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have held an emergency meeting of the Directors committee from noon today to discuss the

death of Tokitsukaze beya rikishi at the Nagoya basho. We now reached an unanimous decision to dismiss Tokitsukaze oyakata from the Sumo Kyokai.

The reason for this is that despite the fact Tokitsukaze oyakata was in the position to develop recruits

and to respond fully to their needs, he failed to fulfill his responsibility as a guardian by not only personally hitting Mr. Takashi Saito with a beer bottle and cutting his face but also tacitly approving further violence perpetrated by the heya's elder rikishi.

He further forced Mr. Saito to undergo half an hour of Butsugari keiko, something well beyond the normal level of training session and committing a conduct unbecoming of a shishio. Further, as a result he has caused public disturbances and severely damaged the Sumo Kyokai's honor and trust.

Regarding to disciplinary actions towards the other rikishi, a police investigation is currently underway, we have reserved our judgments. Once the findings become clear and certain indications are made by relevant prosecutors and courts, we believe we should act accordingly at that stage.

In addition, on our own we decided to take a pay cut. I will be taking 50% salary cut for the next four months while other directors, inspectors and executive level members are taking 30% pay cut for three months.

We have now directed to have the shisho's successor to be named by October 9.

Question & Answer

----------------------

Q: At the Directors meeting, did you tell him the decision in his presence?

Kitanoumi: Yes we told him directly.

Q: Tokitsukaze oyakata was called in to the meeting twice today. Why?

K: The first time he told us he wanted to give us an explanation. Once he left the meeting, we made our decision.

Q: Can you explain your characterization of the hazing as "tacit approval" ?

K: He should have realized what was going on when the other rikishi left carrying a stick. The oyakata should have made more appropriate judgement so we called it as "tacit approval".

Q: Is it normal to have a half-hour Butsukari keiko session?

K: For a rikishi going on to his second basho, it should never happen. It's not just myself but other

shishio concur as well.

Q: After the decision was handed down, what did Tokitsukaze oyakata have to say to you?

K: He said, "I sincerely offer my apology."

Q: Does "dismissal" also mean an expulsion from the Kyokai?

K: Since this is a decision from the Directors, we cannot make it as an expulsion. I'd like you to treat it simply as a dismissal.

Q: What are other steps required for expulsion?

K: It's rather difficult to force an expulsion only after one or several infractions?

Q: What about his severance pay?

K: I haven't thought about it.

Q: Is this the most severe penalty ever handed down?

K: Up to now we haven't had this kind, so I believe it is.

Q: Why did it take three months before the disciplinary action was taken?

K: Initially I understood to be a death from illness so we did not initiate a probe. But as an investigation continued, circumstances surrounding the death changed. We should shoulder the burden for the fact that we did not act in more timely manner.

Q: What about possible charges against Tokitsukaze oyakata?

K: Right now that's all under investigation. The important thing to remember is that he has committed a serious breach of trust causing substantial loss of our credibility, which constitutes the cause for a just dismissal.

Q: Are you implying by causing public outcries he contributed to the loss of your credibility?

K: Well that's true too but in a case like we have now, the public will start believing it's happening with other shisho as well even though it isn't. We should treat those new recruits who we have agreed to take in with more care.

Q: You have called in the oyakata twice. What was the reason?

K: We wanted to double check certain occurrences.

Q: Was there any director who was reluctant to go along with the dissmisal?

K: No.

Q: What was the primary reason for your decision to have a pay cut for the directors and yourself?

K: It's a voluntary move made by everyone. We all need to ensure an incident like this should never happen again.

Q: What are you going to do to find the real truth?

K: That is something the police will be doing. We have moved to dismiss him this time because he has contributed to the loss of the Kyokai's credibility.

Q: You were directed by the Ministry of Education to initiate your own probe?

K: We already talked to and investigated all the heya's recruits.

Q: What have you found so far?

K: The rikishi are still young. We cannot discuss it at this moment.

Q: What do you mean you cannot talk about it because they are still young?

K: Because they all have a future. Currently we are still under police investigation so I really cannot

disclose it further. I do feel badly to the deceased rikishi but I really don't know the full story yet myself

so I really cannot comment.

Q: There are incidents of violence reported at other heya as well?

A: You must be referring to a story reported yesterday. When you say other heya, some will automatically view it as multiple happenings. Each shisho should deal with it individually in a responsible manner.

Q: What about the Kyokai's role on all this?

K: We cannot dictate to each oyakata to do this or do that even if we are told of the nature of any incident. So I just keep praying something like this won't happen again.

Q: What will you be doing to prevent the recurrence?

K: We have set up an inquiry committee to deal with such issues. But we must make sure to garner the fighting spirit that is so crucial to sumo. I want us to keep that in mind as well.

Q: You were requested by the Ministry of Education to prepare a report on the past incidents of deceased rikishi?

K: We prepared a list of the active rikishi who passed away in the past 10 years. The rikishi name, cause of death and in some cases we included the diagnosis.

Q: What would be the most important thing for you to be doing from now on?

K: Both the shisho and rekishi to live a proper life.

Q: Why did you specifically request to have the heya name the successor at this time?

K: We can't ask for an immediate response so we ask them to come up with a resolution by 4 PM October 9 (October 8 is a public holiday in Japan). We will need to have a new shisho appointed so we wanted to give them a little bit of time by announcing it now.

Q: Would Tokitsukaze oyakata continue to keep the Myoseki (Tokitsukaze share)?

K: It's a dismissal so we pointed out we wanted to have the successor decided quickly. We asked for it at the time of dismissal. Obviously there is no question he was dismissed as of today but we wanted to provide them with enough time for succession.

Q: Is there a possibility he may come back as an oyakata at some point in the future?

K: None.

Q: Anything you would like to say to the sumo fans?

K: I'd like to apologize for causing so much disturbance. We need to ensure the same thing to never happen again.

Q: Do you believe you will lose more recruits from joining?

K: That's been mentioned often. We've had 80 to 90 recruits in the best of time. We lost quite a few. We need to gravely accept and face the fact squarely.

Q: Is there a possibility Tokitsukaze oyakata may sue the Kyokai for the disciplinary action?

K: I am not sure. I can't tell you what may happen in the future. At the time of handing down the discipline, he was taking it quite prudently.

Q: Did you direct your request for the successor in presence of the oyakata?

K: We did it in the meeting with him present. To have the honorable Tokitsukaze name disappearing completely is not to be endured easily, we needed to take an immediate action.

Q: Why did every executive agree to have their pay cut voluntarily?

K: Each member spoke up and suggested. For myself I felt strongly and sincerely regretted causing such disturbance and initiated my own action accordingly.

Q: Are you pursuing more investigation of the rikishi?

K: I am not certain. We are still conducting fact gathering.

Q: Why did you decide to act now, three months after the death of the rikishi?

K: We don't know yet of any conclusion the police may or may not have reached. This is our conclusion

strictly from a point of view of causing the loss of Kyokai's credibility. It is strictly a Kyokai initiated action. We don't know what decision the police will reach eventually.

Q: Have you given an opportunity to the oyakata to explain himself today?

K: Yes. We have provided a stage for him but his explanation of the event was not much more different from a report he submitted to us already.

Q: Was this the time when he entered in the meeting the first time?

K: That's correct. We gave him a few minutes before he left the room.

Q: That sounds like extremely a short time?

K: We had no idea how long he would speak. But when he indicated his wish to speak, we felt we should have given the opportunity.

Q: What will you be conveying to the parents of the deceased?

K: I have not decided when we would go see them to explain.

Q: There has been a talk about reforming the Kyokai structure drastically, do you prepare to include an outsider to the board of directors for example?

K: We are not considering it.

Q: How do you view the new committee you set up to inquire about rikishi training?

K: Not only about training methods, I think they will need to consider the daily living of rikishi as well. No doubt all heya will be still doing a morning training session. But you also need to rest your body too. They will need to discuss such an issue in mind as well.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Jonosuke

[Fay 1,677]

Let me make a deep, respectful bow Jonosuke (In a state of confusion...)