Doitsuyama

Sumo Reference Updates

420 posts in this topic

I was doing some research in the sumo reference database earlier, when I happened to come across this and this.

I'm impressed that Ishida was able to fight 14 times (sometimes 2 times on the same day) and still only get a 5-2 score. Not to talk about Hamaeiko's 6-1 score without entering the dohyo even once. :-D

Jokes aside, I thought it was probably a good idea to inform you of my find.

No jokes, I am happy about any and all reported errors. This one is fixed now. ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No jokes, I am happy about any and all reported errors. This one is fixed now. (Clapping wildly...)

I remember a few weeks ago when I made a search with birth date

http://sumodb.sumogames.com/Rikishi.aspx?s...i=-1&sort=4

the last line of this page... you have an error too

Arie seems to be born after his Intai ;-)

http://sumodb.sumogames.com/Rikishi.aspx?r=2360

Thank you for this great site :-D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No new banzuke added as my references for 1974 and before are beginning to get a bit sketchy. For example I have only hoshitori tables from 1968 to 1974, no rikishi details like real name etc which makes tracking of shikona changes more arduous. I am still hoping that I might get some sources in the future, namely odd month magazines of "Sumo" in those years or copies, so I am postponing this part for now.

I was quite busy in the last week though as I wanted to complete the career records of several important rikishi, starting with Mienoumi, Takanosato, Wakanohana II and Oshio. I certainly got a bit overboard after that as I followed this up to complete about 100 more rikishi, but now all sanyaku rikishi with hatsu dohyo in 1935 or later have complete career records, and almost all rikishi with 400 or more career wins are completed too.

Now that the major rikishi (in terms of number of bouts and wins) are complete, I have started to make some interesting record lists, beginning with Career Wins and Makuuchi Wins. More will certainly follow later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now that the major rikishi (in terms of number of bouts and wins) are complete, I have started to make some interesting record lists, beginning with Career Wins and Makuuchi Wins. More will certainly follow later.

Intriguing! Asanowaka is the Makuuchi wins leader for rikishi below sanyaku...not quite the name I expected to see there. And nobody active is even close to him now after Tokitsuumi's retirement (who was about four basho away from breaking the record).

In a similar vein, Kitazakura is about a year and a half away from becoming the new leader for most career wins by a rikishi below sanyaku; Kitakachidoki leads this one, also not a name I expected to see there, but I always forget that he did stick around quite long. Tochitenko needs five more wins to take over the lead for most career wins below makuuchi. And Kimenryu needs 23 more to become the first (?) rikishi below juryo to get 500 career wins. (Ichinoya is actually still ahead of him right now, but...)

Incidentally, Kimenryu and Koriyama (another currently active high-wins guy below juryo) sure have extremely opposite career paths...Kimenryu didn't come up to makushita until he was almost 22 already, peaked late around age 30 and then essentially stayed just slightly below his peak level for the next half-decade. Koriyama on the other hand was in Makushita at age 18, already peaked around age 24/25 and never got close to that level again. So much for predicting career patterns based on age. :-) One thing they do have in common is that both achieved their career-highest kachi-koshi at Ms10...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And Kimenryu needs 23 more to become the first (?) rikishi below juryo to get 500 career wins. (Ichinoya is actually still ahead of him right now, but...)

I guess it's possible that there is a non-sekitori still not in the database who has more than 500 wins, but it's not too likely as fewer than six basho per year mean fewer opportunities to get the wins. Since I know the hatsu dohyo for all rikishi active in Kyushu 1974 and later, this candidate must have retired until Aki 1974. Let's suppose Aki 1974 as the last basho - then the hatsu dohyo must be in 1949 or earlier to reach 1000 bouts (and no abences of course). If the last basho is earlier than Aki 1974, the necessary hatsu dohyo very quickly shifts back, last basho in Aki 1972 means hatsu dohyo in 1944 or earlier to get to 1000 bouts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Tochitenko needs just four more tournaments to surpass Oshio's record of 157. Of course he hasn't fought nearly as many matches but still quite an achievement.

I also find it interesting that Oshio is in second place on the Career Wins list but doesn't even make it into the top 100 when it comes to Makuuchi Wins. He really did spend a long time in the lower divisions.

Edited by ryafuji

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 . Why is three "Chyonofuji"s in japanese version and only two in the english?

(last two in japanese are looking similar)

2. How can be two sumotori with the same shikona at the same time (1970-1974)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 . Why is three "Chyonofuji"s in japanese version and only two in the english?

(last two in japanese are looking similar)

2. How can be two sumotori with the same shikona at the same time (1970-1974)?

To 1., you're right in Japanese the last two lines are identical so either a database problem or a display problem. Edit: thanks Doitsuyama, I should have looked more closely to see that the kanji were not in fact the same. With a small font they look very close.

To 2., are you sure they were active at the same time? It looks like Akimoto's career came just after Miyamoto's and for the first while of course Akimoto used his family name before becoming Oakimoto and finally Chiyonofuji. Finally perhaps they had different given names so their whole shikona was not common? Could also be data errors as the first one seems to have had a very short career while Akimoto became Yokozuna so he has lots of data.

Edited by Harry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 . Why is three "Chiyonofuji"s in japanese version and only two in the english?

(last two in japanese are looking similar)

2. How can be two sumotori with the same shikona at the same time (1970-1974)?

1. You answered that one yourself already (I think). The later yokozuna Chiyonofuji had a shikona change from 千代の冨士 to 千代の富士 which is why there are two Japanese search results for him if you look for "Chiyonofuji" (or "ちよのふじ" of course).

2. I have currently a gap in the database as the full banzuke from Hatsu 1968 is entered (thanks again to aderechelsea for the material), but I have no "Sumo" magazines between that basho and Kyushu 1974. The gap will hopefully be closed eventually, but until then there are a few hundred rikishi with unknown intai (somewhere in those seven years anyway). The unknown intai is actually written as such. The second Chiyonofuji is one of them and I concede that his intai must have been earlier than Haru 1971 (when Chiyonofuji assumed this shikona), but I didn't check for such things as I intend to complete the missing full banzuke anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2. I have no "Sumo" magazines between Hatsu 1968 and Kyushu 1974. The gap will hopefully be closed eventually, but until then there are a few hundred rikishi with unknown intai

these magazines are readily available in Tokyo - at least 2 outlets (used bookstores) have hundreds upon hundreds from the 60s - 90s and must contain the years you are after. Priced at a few hundred yen apiece as far as I recall. If you need help, I am sure Nishi or I could get along sometime.

Edited by Mark Buckton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

also - repeating part of another post but probably better written here - shikona (you have しこ名) would better match Japanese language records were it installed / penned 四股名

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
also - repeating part of another post but probably better written here - shikona (you have しこ名) would better match Japanese language records were it installed / penned 四股名

The NSK site uses しこ名more often than the other form so it certainly isn't wrong or even misleading in any way. The japanese wikipedia page for 四股名 also states that "しこ名" is a frequently used writing.

I have changed it now since the japanese wikipedia has 四股名 as the main form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is very sad Tongans quit decades ago due to circumstances.

It is still awesome and flabbergasting that this kind of statistical heaven exists. Hard work indeed and useful to thousands of human beings all around the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The second Chiyonofuji is one of them and I concede that his intai must have been earlier than Haru 1971 (when Chiyonofuji assumed this shikona), but I didn't check for such things as I intend to complete the missing full banzuke anyway.

最高位 序二段 72

本名 宮本 久夫

生年月日 昭和24年5月21日

出身地 大阪府大阪市東住吉区

所属部屋 九重 哨

改名歴 千代の富士

初土俵 昭和42年3月

最終場所 不明

the missing date - is 43年9月 - Sept, 1968

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i wanted to ask something about Musashimaru's entry.

There are is no mae-zumo result listed and there are also no opponent names for his first few basho. You are waiting to get these details from a magazine or a somewhat "official" source? because these are available online somewhere but i cannot verify their accuracy. I was just wondering.

.

.

.

For example I have only hoshitori tables from 1968 to 1974, no rikishi details like real name etc which makes tracking of shikona changes more arduous. I am still hoping that I might get some sources in the future, namely odd month magazines of "Sumo" in those years or copies, so I am postponing this part for now

i have a March 1968 magazine. Interested?

.

.

.

and something last ... how impossible is it to include kimarite in the queries? or some sort of search by kimarite? i have no idea how this whole database system works so i might be talking about some serious work here but i thought i could just ask ... :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i wanted to ask something about Musashimaru's entry.

There are is no mae-zumo result listed and there are also no opponent names for his first few basho. You are waiting to get these details from a magazine or a somewhat "official" source? because these are available online somewhere but i cannot verify their accuracy. I was just wondering.

The mae-zumo result I would like to add, but I am not interested in adding single lower division bouts. It's too much work to add them piece-wise and even worse when I get the rest of a basho. So I am adding lower division bouts on a whole basho scale only.

For example I have only hoshitori tables from 1968 to 1974, no rikishi details like real name etc which makes tracking of shikona changes more arduous. I am still hoping that I might get some sources in the future, namely odd month magazines of "Sumo" in those years or copies, so I am postponing this part for now

i have a March 1968 magazine. Interested?

Guess where I got the Hatsu 1968 full banzuke and rikishi details? :-)

and something last ... how impossible is it to include kimarite in the queries? or some sort of search by kimarite? i have no idea how this whole database system works so i might be talking about some serious work here but i thought i could just ask ... :-)

Hmm, you mean like this (showing uchimuso wins grouped by rikishi)? You can study that query and play with it by clicking the "modify query" link.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and something last ... how impossible is it to include kimarite in the queries? or some sort of search by kimarite? i have no idea how this whole database system works so i might be talking about some serious work here but i thought i could just ask ... :-)

Kimarite search was available from day 1. I remember you saying that you are databasically-challenged, but it's really quite easy. Just select the bout query. There you'll see a kimarite pull-down menu. Take a rare kimarite and press "Search". You'll see a list where each bout with that kimarite is displayed (in fact, using this method it is displayed twice).

Then you can use this query and experiment a little with it. You want cumulative results? Use the pull-down menus at the bottom where you can group by rikishi1. Voila, you get a list of who used what kimarite how often. And so on...

Edited by Randomitsuki
Beaten by the databassist himself...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guess where I got the Hatsu 1968 full banzuke and rikishi details? :-)
and something last ... how impossible is it to include kimarite in the queries? or some sort of search by kimarite? i have no idea how this whole database system works so i might be talking about some serious work here but i thought i could just ask ... :-)

Hmm, you mean like this (showing uchimuso wins grouped by rikishi)? You can study that query and play with it by clicking the "modify query" link.

ok, i am officially stupid.

sorry to bother you. Forget my existence ... :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally there are some update news. Thanks to aderechelsea (even if he forgot it somewhere in South America), I have added eight full banzuke from Kyushu 1966 until Hatsu 1968, along with rikishi details (real name, birth date, heya, detailed shusshin) for about 500 rikishi. Randomitsuki added the juryo kimarite from 1956 to 1964, about 14,000 of them, making the juryo kimarite complete as far as my sources go. Fay added more than 40 pics from lower division rikishi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ya, thanks a ton to Doitsuyama and everyone else who's contributed to the sumo database, my browser's toolbar wouldn't be complete w/o it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another update is available, I have added 13 full banzuke from Haru 1968 until Haru 1970. I guess further updates will have to wait a month or so as I will be busy and the Haru basho is coming up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now