Doitsuyama

Sumo Reference Updates

451 posts in this topic

small thing:

Natsu 1988 Daizen's record:

link

2-8-5 appears as 2-13

Edited by higginbotham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is another big update now, thanks to Nishinoshima's material I have completed the gap between Natsu 1970 and Aki 1973. Now all full banzuke since Kyushu 1966 are in the database, with rikishi details (real name, shikona history, heya, detailed shusshin) for most rikishi - about 500 rikishi of 6259 don't have these details but those are in the vast majority rikishi with a career length of less than a year, never getting past jonidan. The next basho will provide the 250th full banzuke since Kyushu 1966, another nice and round number for Sumo Reference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And annual weights & heights please please please :-P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is another big update now, thanks to Nishinoshima's material I have completed the gap between Natsu 1970 and Aki 1973. Now all full banzuke since Kyushu 1966 are in the database, with rikishi details (real name, shikona history, heya, detailed shusshin) for most rikishi - about 500 rikishi of 6259 don't have these details but those are in the vast majority rikishi with a career length of less than a year, never getting past jonidan. The next basho will provide the 250th full banzuke since Kyushu 1966, another nice and round number for Sumo Reference.

:-P

One more thingy. Maybe you await an official confirmation, but the kettei-sen involving Kykushuho and Hakiai in November was clearly decided by a hatakikomi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't find the strenght ratings any more. Are they on ice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't find the strenght ratings any more. Are they on ice?

Bump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't find the strenght ratings any more. Are they on ice?

I can't seem to link to Doitsuyama's site. Doesn't it have a different URL rather than just the number? Something, I think with db in it?

That server is out. The ratings will be integrated into Sumo Reference, but no timetable is set.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't find the strenght ratings any more. Are they on ice?

I can't seem to link to Doitsuyama's site. Doesn't it have a different URL rather than just the number? Something, I think with db in it?

That server is out. The ratings will be integrated into Sumo Reference, but no timetable is set.

Thanks. Looking forward to this -- the strenght ratings are a very useful piece of information -- while appreciating that your time budget has its limits, of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And annual weights & heights please please please (Sign of approval...)

Heights and weights from 1966.11 to 1973.11 are included now. Not that hard to do, but unfortunately the data is not too reliable, so I shied away from the task until now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to return to the subject of the 1970s Tongan rikishi mentioned earlier upthread. According to his Wikipedia article pro wrestler Sione Vailahi was one of those Tongans, but it mentions a shikona of Yokinoshima, which doesn't appear anywhere in the database. There is Sachinoshima who has a very similar real name listed, Shione. is this the same guy? The date of birth listed, June 9, 1956 appears to be completely different from the Wikipedia articles September 6, 1958 but at a stretch 1956 could be a typo for '58 and there could possibly have been confusion if "9.6" was read as June 9 instead of September 6... In which case, where did the name Yokinoshima come from?

Edited by ryafuji

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd like to return to the subject of the 1970s Tongan rikishi mentioned earlier upthread. According to his Wikipedia article pro wrestler Sione Vailahi was one of those Tongans, but it mentions a shikona of Yokinoshima, which doesn't appear anywhere in the database. There is Sachinoshima who has a very similar real name listed, Shione. is this the same guy? The date of birth listed, June 9, 1956 appears to be completely different from the Wikipedia articles September 6, 1958 but at a stretch 1956 could be a typo for '58 and there could possibly have been confusion if "9.6" was read as June 9 instead of September 6... In which case, where did the name Yokinoshima come from?

I can't add anything of substance to substantiate any of this, but I think your amateur sleuthing may be correct. Sione would be the proper name for a Tongan (or Samoan) rather than Shione as it is in the database. I think the transposition of dates seems quite likely also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually not sure where the Wikipedia article sources the name "Yokinoshima" from; it's been there for a long time and I've never found its provenance. FWIW, the scanned 1970s Sumo World article that Washuyama posted above has Sachinoshima as the shikona. I must admit I don't totally trust SW either, so if the kanji is correct and it's not Sachinoshima, it might be "Yukinoshima" if this is to be trusted. I suspect though that SW got it right and the Wikipedia version was simply somebody's incorrect guess.

I'm guessing the currently listed real names are probably also from the aforementioned SW article, and Shione/Sione seems like a simple transcription matter for the シ character (shi in Hepburn, si in Kunrei), what with there being no Hepburn si in the standard set of kana.

(And while we're on the subject, I think some enterprising soul with a bit of time on his hands could also find plenty of foreigner DB entries where the given name and surname are transposed...I've tried to, but I don't have enough knowledge of naming conventions across the world to recognize what's the given name in most cases.)

Edited by Asashosakari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd like to return to the subject of the 1970s Tongan rikishi mentioned earlier upthread. According to his Wikipedia article pro wrestler Sione Vailahi was one of those Tongans, but it mentions a shikona of Yokinoshima, which doesn't appear anywhere in the database. There is Sachinoshima who has a very similar real name listed, Shione. is this the same guy? The date of birth listed, June 9, 1956 appears to be completely different from the Wikipedia articles September 6, 1958 but at a stretch 1956 could be a typo for '58 and there could possibly have been confusion if "9.6" was read as June 9 instead of September 6... In which case, where did the name Yokinoshima come from?

It's like Asashosakari said - I even had Yukinoshima (Yokinoshima is not really possible) as my guessed reading of the shikona, but as contemporary SW had Sachinoshima (also a good reading) this is very probably the correct reading. And since I have no idea of Tongan names, I can only go with the katakana transcriptions until something better comes up, like your post. :-)

As for the birth dates, the dates in the "Sumo" magazines are a big mess I'm afraid, often varying wildly for the same rikishi between magazines, so the entries in Sumo Reference easily can be wrong (typos certainly are possible too but a lot less likely than false data in the old magazines). I will go with the wikipedia entry here. Incidentally, I am really wondering what the problem with birth dates in older magazines is - the real names for example are very consistent while birth dates obviously have a lot of errors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As for the birth dates, the dates in the "Sumo" magazines are a big mess I'm afraid, often varying wildly for the same rikishi between magazines, so the entries in Sumo Reference easily can be wrong (typos certainly are possible too but a lot less likely than false data in the old magazines). I will go with the wikipedia entry here. Incidentally, I am really wondering what the problem with birth dates in older magazines is - the real names for example are very consistent while birth dates obviously have a lot of errors.

One thing about Sione Vailahi's birthyear...1956 is consistent with the SW article which says he's 20 years old at the end of 1976.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As for the birth dates, the dates in the "Sumo" magazines are a big mess I'm afraid, often varying wildly for the same rikishi between magazines, so the entries in Sumo Reference easily can be wrong (typos certainly are possible too but a lot less likely than false data in the old magazines). I will go with the wikipedia entry here. Incidentally, I am really wondering what the problem with birth dates in older magazines is - the real names for example are very consistent while birth dates obviously have a lot of errors.

One thing about Sione Vailahi's birthyear...1956 is consistent with the SW article which says he's 20 years old at the end of 1976.

Right... Ok, I'll leave his birthday at June 9, 1956. For his name, I assume that Vailahi is the surname. Anyone know better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Right... Ok, I'll leave his birthday at June 9, 1956. For his name, I assume that Vailahi is the surname.

AFAIK that's correct. (His IMDB bio says his son is named Peter Vailahi.)

While we're at it, we also have the real name for Fukunoshima via Wikipedia (surname Fifita).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, and another one...I seem to recall reading in one of madoro's gaijin-themed posts that Minaminoshima #1 gave his former shikona to his newborn son as his given name. I'll take a wild stab and guess that that means:

a) the currently active one should have "Farebai" (or whatever the correct original spelling is) as his surname and "Minaminoshima Isamu" as first and middle name

b) the father's shikona was Minaminoshima Isamu, not Minaminoshima Takeshi.

And for somebody who knows more about Tongan names than I do...is it possible that the given name "Devita" (from SW) is supposed to be "Tebita" like for current Tongan rikishi Aotsurugi? (Incidentally, probably another one where the surname is assigned wrong, I'd guess it's correctly TAUFA Tebita Rato)

And then there's this Wikipedia user page which has Minami #1's name as "Alani Falevai", so maybe the full name is "Tebita Alani Falevai"...but that's entering the realm of speculation now.

Edited by Asashosakari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
a) the currently active one should have "Farebai" (or whatever the correct original spelling is)

And then there's this Wikipedia user page which has Minami #1's name as "Alani Falevai", so maybe the full name is "Tebita Alani Falevai"...but that's entering the realm of speculation now.

The name should be Falevai and it is a surname.

And for somebody who knows more about Tongan names than I do...is it possible that the given name "Devita" (from SW) is supposed to be "Tebita" like for current Tongan rikishi Aotsurugi? (Incidentally, probably another one where the surname is assigned wrong, I'd guess it's correctly TAUFA Tebita Rato)

I'm almost certain it should be Tevita (Tongan equivalent of David) and it is a given name. It can also appear as Tavita but as the katakana is suggesting a 'te' sound then I'd go with that.

Taufa is most probably the surname as it is the name of a sea god.

Rato appears to be another given name.

I'm not Tongan so I can't say categorically. However, there is a Tongan minority in NZ, particularly in my home city of Auckland, and we perhaps are a little more used to hearing such names than others around the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm actually not sure where the Wikipedia article sources the name "Yokinoshima" from; it's been there for a long time and I've never found its provenance. FWIW, the scanned 1970s Sumo World article that Washuyama posted above has Sachinoshima as the shikona. I must admit I don't totally trust SW either, so if the kanji is correct and it's not Sachinoshima, it might be "Yukinoshima" if this is to be trusted. I suspect though that SW got it right and the Wikipedia version was simply somebody's incorrect guess.

So it could be a different way of reading the same character, like Kyoku/Asahi in Oshima beya names? That could explain it. Thanks for all your replies everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Another small thing:

http://sumodb.sumogames.com/Results.aspx?b=200805&d=12

In the yusho arasoi matrix, the day 8 bout between Goeido and Futeno is missing.

Thanks for notifying - I have no idea how this glitch happened as the W-L record is correct for both rikishi which is done with the same statement, but it's corrected now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

First of all, thanks a lot for this great website !!

I just noticed a very light error in the database on the kimarite list for ozeki Takanonami in the Kyushu basho 1997.

http://sumodb.sumogames.com/Rikishi_basho....=5&b=199711

Actually, Takanonami won the playoff bout against Takanohana by Kawazugake (What a beautiful bout!), and not by uwatenage. I don't remember his bout against Tochiazuma on senshuraku, but I don't think the kimarite was again the very rare kawazugake.

You may simply have to switch the last two kimarite to fix everything.

Keep up the good work !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi,

First of all, thanks a lot for this great website !!

I just noticed a very light error in the database on the kimarite list for ozeki Takanonami in the Kyushu basho 1997.

http://sumodb.sumogames.com/Rikishi_basho....=5&b=199711

Actually, Takanonami won the playoff bout against Takanohana by Kawazugake (What a beautiful bout!), and not by uwatenage. I don't remember his bout against Tochiazuma on senshuraku, but I don't think the kimarite was again the very rare kawazugake.

You may simply have to switch the last two kimarite to fix everything.

Keep up the good work !

Hmm, sorry, but I rather stick with my black-on-white source, the Sumo magazine - which might be wrong or not. But kimarite are often decided differently from what you might feel. So I certainly will not correct this "error", unless someone presents me with a better source.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now