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[ilovesumo 12]

Guess Ushio retires.

[James H 0]

...the topic naturally cropped up again in conversation recently and the only somewhat official comment anybody was able to scrounge up was still that Hawaiian newspaper article from almost two years ago where the writer mentioned Ushiomaru as the successor, and only in indirect speech.

Sorry to bring it up again, but when I asked Jesse about it last year during an interview, he said it was likely that Ushiomaru would take over... but said he was still active (like this was a possible problem). So the 2channel people may be onto something. I spoke to Jesse yesterday (just a couple of minutes outside the kokugikan so I didn't have time to ask him about succession), but afterward, when I mentioned the succession to a Japanese reporter, he seemed to be unwilling to name Ushiomaru.

Normally these things are all-but-official in the press club (and are embargoed until groupthink takes over) but his reaction suggests it may not be as clear cut as everyone thought.

[Asashosakari 20,132]

Sorry to bring it up again ...

Don't be, it's always appreciated to hear from the front lines. (Another year older...)

Normally these things are all-but-official in the press club (and are embargoed until groupthink takes over) but his reaction suggests it may not be as clear cut as everyone thought.

At the other place, idle speculation has turned towards the possibility of merging Nakamura-beya and Azumazeki-beya. Nakamura himself is due to retire in just under four years and doesn't have a clear successor, so I guess the thinking is that he could be the Azumazeki caretaker until Ushiomaru's career has played out completely. Well, why the hell not...

Edited May 13, 2009 by Asashosakari

[Kotoviki 16]

It is very interesting then indeed!

In a conversation at Azumazeki the other day I understood it was so that Ushiomaru would retire after Natsu.

Thus assuming that meant he would take over the heya. Some rikishi I talked to at a heya in the same ichimon commented when I said "it is a shame he has to retire when he still is doing well in Juryo...." they said "he is getting a heya, that is great, not like he is retiring for nothing..." that was the gest of two different conversations.

But as James states it isn't clear then so we will all have to wait and see I guess!

[Asashosakari 20,132]

Intriguing discussion on the 2channel thread - they've been posting up another storm on the Azumazeki retirement issue (with some rather wacky theories such as ex-Toki or Chiyotaikai as interim oyakata), and eventually turned to the question of what Ushiomaru's rank would be on the next banzuke if he doesn't officially retire until several weeks after the banzuke formation meeting. Understandably it would be rather terrible for the next Ms1e if Ushiomaru was to simply block a juryo spot even though everybody would know ahead of time that he wasn't going to be active anymore.

Anyway, somebody pointed out the case of Hoshiiwato who took over the Michinoku name from Hoshikabuto, apparently in the middle of February (i.e. way after the banzuke meeting) when the latter turned 65. It's not perfectly comparable because Hoshiiwato was going to drop from juryo anyway, but he did not get ranked where one would have expected him, i.e. around Ms10. Instead he was left off the next banzuke altogether as a rikishi (and already listed as an oyakata), and they left the Ms60w rank blank, apparently as a pseudo-placeholder for the spot they saved in high makushita. (Now watch them do the stupid thing by acting in a fully analogous manner, and leaving J14w blank...)

Of course that's all predicated on Ushiomaru actually retiring, which still nobody seems to acknowledge one way or the other.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 46,753]

I'll take another wild guess and say Ushiomaru retires with an 8-7 as soon as the basho is over and takes over. The fact that nothing is official is totally in line with every other retirement/active rikishi take-over in the past-nothing was ever official-just common knowledge. This time, it's not that common, but to me at least, seems quite clear-cut.

But, we shall see..

[Kofuji 0]

Anyway, somebody pointed out the case of Hoshiiwato who took over the Michinoku name from Hoshikabuto, apparently in the middle of February (i.e. way after the banzuke meeting) when the latter turned 65. It's not perfectly comparable because Hoshiiwato was going to drop from juryo anyway, but he did not get ranked where one would have expected him, i.e. around Ms10. Instead he was left off the next banzuke altogether as a rikishi (and already listed as an oyakata), and they left the Ms60w rank blank, apparently as a pseudo-placeholder for the spot they saved in high makushita. (Now watch them do the stupid thing by acting in a fully analogous manner, and leaving J14w blank...)

There will never be a blank spot in Juryo again. I've fixed the Juryo game to handle blank spots properly on both sides of the banzuke after initially only handling the side the pot smoker was on ...

Edited May 23, 2009 by Kofuji

[Doitsuyama 1,258]

I'll take another wild guess and say Ushiomaru retires with an 8-7 as soon as the basho is over and takes over.

Won't happen.

[Asashosakari 20,132]

I'll take another wild guess and say Ushiomaru retires with an 8-7 as soon as the basho is over and takes over.

Won't happen.

Technically, Moti didn't say which basho. (I am not worthy...)

In any case, I just needed an excuse to post the interesting Hoshiiwato story; I don't actually trust the current banzuke makers to employ such a sensible solution.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 46,753]

I'll take another wild guess and say Ushiomaru retires with an 8-7 as soon as the basho is over and takes over.

Won't happen.

Then perhaps in a couple of hours.

[Kintamayama 46,753]

Paper is saying Ushiomaru will retire and take over the heya, no question marks..

[ilovesumo 12]

Paper is saying Ushiomaru will retire and take over the heya, no question marks..

Paper says 小野川 (onogawa) Kabu now. Until the 16th of June when Takamiyama retires ( ? )

Edited May 24, 2009 by ilovesumo

[Asojima 2,874]

Paper says 小野川 (onogawa) Kabu now. Until the 16th of June when Takamiyama retires ( ? )

So he will retire before the next banzuke is set up and "rent" the Onogawa kabu for a month until Azumazeki retires. It keeps the banzuke clean, and results in a clean transition.

[Asashosakari 20,132]

It appears that Ushiomaru will also go by "Azumazeki Daigoro" instead of affixing his own given name to the myoseki.

[Kintamayama 46,753]

Ex-Akinoshima ( current Sendagawa) will be taking over Takadagawa beya in September (exactly 5 years after he left Futagoyama beya and joined Takadagawa), it has been announced today. The current oyakata who is retiring in March will switch names with him in August. A new heya is being constructed at the moment in Tokyo , Kotoku, and is slated to be ready on September 5th. At a heya gathering today, Sendagawa had this to say: "I will not allow any slacking on the keiko-ba.. I will run the heya in 'old-school' style -there will be order and courtesy!". "I am able to pass the heya on without any worries", said the current Oyakata.

[Kotoviki 16]

From what I was told in February the new Takadagawa will be basically right behind Kitanoumi beya.

Or at least in that very close vicinity! That is much better than the place they are in now! That is too far! And there is no decent parking (pay type or any type) anywhere near the current heya. We had troubles driving there for 5:30 keiko & finding parking (Detective...)

[Chisaiyama 11]

I hate to flog a dead horse, but I am still curious about the status of the ownership of the Furiwake kabu. According to the kabu table recently added to Doitsuyama's database the owner is moto M12 Asaarashi, who according to the same db, was born July 8, 1943 which by my calculations would make him 66 in 2 days (1 day in Japan), thus well past the mandatory retirement age. Does this mean that an individual can retain ownership of the Kabu even after they are required to retire from the Kyokai? Also I thought it had been discussed that Takamisakari was the owner of this Kabu? Can anyone clear this up for me?

[Doitsuyama 1,258]

I hate to flog a dead horse, but I am still curious about the status of the ownership of the Furiwake kabu. According to the kabu table recently added to Doitsuyama's database the owner is moto M12 Asaarashi, who according to the same db, was born July 8, 1943 which by my calculations would make him 66 in 2 days (1 day in Japan), thus well past the mandatory retirement age. Does this mean that an individual can retain ownership of the Kabu even after they are required to retire from the Kyokai? Also I thought it had been discussed that Takamisakari was the owner of this Kabu? Can anyone clear this up for me?

I can't tell you about the state of the kabu, but I can tell that ownership isn't limited to an age. In fact, in Sumo Reference often there is an ownership indicated for dead persons. The ownership of course is transferred with the rest of the heritage but for sake of simplicity it's still attributed to the deceased previous owner.

[Asashosakari 20,132]

I hate to flog a dead horse, but I am still curious about the status of the ownership of the Furiwake kabu. According to the kabu table recently added to Doitsuyama's database the owner is moto M12 Asaarashi, who according to the same db, was born July 8, 1943 which by my calculations would make him 66 in 2 days (1 day in Japan), thus well past the mandatory retirement age. Does this mean that an individual can retain ownership of the Kabu even after they are required to retire from the Kyokai? Also I thought it had been discussed that Takamisakari was the owner of this Kabu? Can anyone clear this up for me?

At one point there were newspaper reports that Sakari had bought the kabu from Asaarashi, which was a bit odd because the latter was still a member of the Kyokai at the time. It's possible that that's not unusual (rikishi essentially securing an option on a kabu before it becomes available), but it was clearly not meant to be public knowledge, I think. Maybe those plans fell through, maybe the reports were simply inaccurate, or maybe the current Musashimaru-borrows-from-Asaarashi arrangement is just a smoke screen (i.e. Sakari really is the owner) so that it doesn't look like a yokozuna's future with the Kyokai is at the mercy of a lowly hiramaku's active career.

The official line is that Asaarashi is still the owner, anyway. To add to what Doitsuyama said: I can never remember what the exact timeframe is (three years?) but retired oyakata - or their estates if deceased - are allowed to keep holding on to a kabu for a certain period of time before being required to sell it. I think historically the Kyokai was even more lenient in these matters.

[Orion 431]

I can't tell you about the state of the kabu, but I can tell that ownership isn't limited to an age. In fact, in Sumo Reference often there is an ownership indicated for dead persons. The ownership of course is transferred with the rest of the heritage but for sake of simplicity it's still attributed to the deceased previous owner.

To the best of my knowledge the longest vacancy was in the Sakaigawa myoseki, which remained vacant for about 16 years. It was held by komusubi Odachi who died in January 1970 aged 46; the myoseki remained in the possession of his widow, who owned Chaya 18, Isefuku, till she adopted Washuyama. Washuyama subsequently exchanged myoseki with his stablemaster and became Dewanoumi.

Orion

[Washuyama 658]

...till she adopted Washuyama. Washuyama subsequently exchanged myoseki with his stablemaster and became Dewanoumi.

Orion

The rest, as they say, is history! (Nodding yes...)

[Jonosuke 28]

moto M12 Asaarashi, who according to the same db, was born July 8, 1943 which by my calculations would make him 66 in 2 days (1 day in Japan),

Well it's today in Japan and we should wish him a happy birthday then.

All great minds were born on this day....

[Chisaiyama 11]

Thanks to one and all for the information. My grand-daughter was born on July 8th as well.

[kaiguma 0]

All great minds were born on this day....

Off-topic but there are two large versions of your avatar currently on display in the sumo museum.

So one is wax and the other... taxidermy?

(Nodding yes...)

[Asashosakari 20,132]

Mandatory retirements continue to fly under the radar with the Kyokai's recent policy not to make press releases for them, so it fell on Hokkaido Shimbun to remind us that former super sekiwake and makuuchi yusho winner Hasegawa, Sadogatake-beya's Hidenoyama-oyakata has turned 65 on Monday. Now that he's retired, he's hoping to get a chance to visit his birthplace on Sakhalin (now Russia).

So there's a free kabu now...Onaruto-oyakata, please report to the red courtesy phone at your earliest convenience.