Nagoya 2025 discussion (results)

[Gospodin 260]

11 hours ago, dingo said:

Kirishima is totally out of steam. Wakatakakage got his 10th to continue on his ozeki quest. 

Waka´s tachiai was perfect

[Akinomaki 41,570]

11 hours ago, dingo said:

Kotoshoho's father looks like the stereotypical wise master from a martial arts movie, white beard and all.

Actually rather totally Kame-sennin - a master, but far from wise

o

the master of kame-hame-ha

o

[Reonito 1,747]

12 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Kotokaze boasted ("I won't boast of it") of having been promoted with 30 wins, as there were no ozeki (3Y), thinking that Wakatakakage might be promoted with simple double digits after next basho (32 wins)

12-10-10 is not a great line, 10-10-12 would've been more likely IMO, I think he needs 11

[Reonito 1,747]

11 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Tamawashi is oldest sansho winner now

Surely oldest with double-digit wins as well, no?

[Reonito 1,747]

10 hours ago, Kishinoyama said:

The big question:

Next tournament will “Mr. Banzuke luck” Shimanoumi be ranked at Juryo 14w with a 3-12 record at J12e? 

I think the spell has finally been broken.

[Reonito 1,747]

4 hours ago, Doitsuyama said:

Now possible to see with a query

Very cool! He broke his own record, set in March, for the oldest with double-digit wins, and now has set the record for the oldest with 11+

If there was a way to add a "highest career rank" field, that would be awesome!

Edited July 27 by Reonito

[WAKATAKE 2,758]

55 minutes ago, Reonito said:

I think the spell has finally been broken.

We should know on Tuesday

[maglor 132]

1 hour ago, Reonito said:

12-10-10 is not a great line, 10-10-12 would've been more likely IMO, I think he needs 11

If the bar for Yok promotion has come down, then I think the bar for Ozeki promotion should also naturally come down, otherwise you end up with a useless Ozeki rank that contains Yokozunas on their way up or Yok prospects who got injured or old or fell off in some other way and are just collecting 8-7s until their demotion.

Sumo is at its best when there are Ozeki who are clearly the 2nd tier in the sport, not as good as the Yok but still a challenge to everyone below. Kisenosato/Goeido/Kotoshogiku when I first started watching. Or Kotooshu and Baruto before that. Or Takakeisho for Terunofuji. If the standards hadn't come down then Hoshoryu could have been that to Onosato. But given where they are now I think 32 wins should be more than enough.

For what it's worth if you look at the time span before the Futahaguro/Konishiki raising of standards, then you also see easier Ozeki promos. Quite a few with 31 or lower. It would have been nice if Daieisho had been promoted after 10-12-10.

[Asashosakari 20,131]

18 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

A bit surprising for me that Kusano is locked in for two...

Edit: Aonishiki only got the Kantosho in his 11-4 debut, so they should have made the Ginosho conditional.

Yeah, should obviously have been conditional on him defeating Takayasu. It looks very silly now.

17 hours ago, Tetsuarashi said:

kusano with a chance to win all three special prizes at the same time with the yusho.

And that's almost certainly why they awarded him the gino-sho in the first place.

[Kaninoyama 1,877]

If Takayasu had brought yesterday's sumo to one of his previous deciding matches he'd be a Grand Champion by now. Determined and aggressive. Hope he can draw on that if he ever gets another opportunity. 

[Bunbukuchagama 922]

14 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

or Ichiyamamoto

No way. 

[Bunbukuchagama 922]

7 hours ago, Reonito said:

I think the spell has finally been broken.

As I suspected, Hidenoumi's promotion to Makuuchi disturbed the balance of magic at the heya. 

[robnplunder 978]

Did anyone imagine that after day 5, Kotoshoho (3-2) would win 10 straight matches and would go on to win the tournament?   Even after day 11, I was expecting Koto to lose against Taka, Ono, Kiri, and Ao.  What happened to him, a perennial mid-Makuuchi sometimes Juryo rikisshi?  

[Kaninoyama 1,877]

19 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Did anyone imagine that after day 5, Kotoshoho (3-2) would win 10 straight matches and would go on to win the tournament?   Even after day 11, I was expecting Koto to lose against Taka, Ono, Kiri, and Ao.  What happened to him, a perennial mid-Makuuchi sometimes Juryo rikisshi?  

He had quite a bit of potential coming up but got derailed by injuries and became a forgotten also ran. Perhaps his injuries are behind him (for now) and he's back to realizing his initial promise. 

Which has started me wondering: in an alternate world where there are zero injuries, which rikishi who became also rans would have had entirely different career trajectories? 

Edited July 28 by Kaninoyama

[Jakusotsu 6,320]

...and if you don't stop winning, you won't lose.

[hypnoowl 23]

Now let's see if Tamawashi can go 12-3 in Aki from M1, get the apple of discord S2 slot for Kyushu and finally clinch an ozeki promotion as a birthday present.

[dingo 1,454]

2 hours ago, hypnoowl said:

Now let's see if Tamawashi can go 12-3 in Aki from M1, get the apple of discord S2 slot for Kyushu and finally clinch an ozeki promotion as a birthday present.

If he really does that I will eat my pants. 

[Andreas21 210]

4 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Did anyone imagine that after day 5, Kotoshoho (3-2) would win 10 straight matches and would go on to win the tournament?   Even after day 11, I was expecting Koto to lose against Taka, Ono, Kiri, and Ao.  What happened to him, a perennial mid-Makuuchi sometimes Juryo rikisshi?  

Not the slightest, in my case!

There is a remarkable phenomenon that some Rikishi in certain circumstances perform considerably better than they usually do. It did not appear that Kotoshoho was just lucky and the Joi Rikishi crumbled on their own. No, it was actually very good Sumo, at least to my eyes. Resembling the former Kotoshoho style, but way more consequential, consistent, and decisive.

Sure, the Torikumi supported it with the day 11 matchup. But it was based on the day 9 result, when Kotoshoho at 7:2 was not yet Kachikoshi. In my view, it was the correct decision not to give him Joi-i opponents at this time. (Except, and I'm saying the again and again, the main problem is that the Torikumi for the next day is decided before the actual results.) The Torikumi helped with only a single bout: the remaining four opponents were the best available. Kotoshoho won them all!

Other notable examples include obviously the Yusho of Tokushoryu and Kyokotenho. We can also add Goeidos Zensho Yusho, Kotooshos 14-1 Yusho. At the current strength level, we can also add Takerufujis Yusho. I also remember Nishikigis first half of Nagoya 2023.

What can it be? Perhaps it can be the psychological momentum, where some Rikishi actually benefit from the pressure. A big factor, specific to Sumo, can also be that sometimes there is a temporary window when all injuries are sufficiently healed. Then, and it well known in many competitive sports, there is "good shape" factor, where the style perfectly fits the ability and power, and the sportsman gets the act together. Then, and this is more specific to Sumo, a certain "cheap trick" works only a limited time (I think of Kotooshos Henkas and Tokushoryus Tsukiotoshis). Of course, Yaocho can not be completely ruled out when extraordinary, inexplicable things happen on the Dohyo.

An even more remarkable phenomenon is that some Rikishi lack the ability to step up when it really counts. Of course, we think first of Takayasu. Also Kisenosato comes into mind except for final stage of career.

[Gaijingai 1,634]

Kotoshoho and “Brother” Kotozakura 

https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/sports/sumo/20250728-272339/

[Gaijingai 1,634]

Four different stories by Japan Forward. Just keep scrolling.

https://japan-forward.com/kotoshoho-wins-nagoya-basho-to-claim-his-1st-emperors-cup/

[Akinomaki 41,570]

Kusano with a win on day 15 would have finished alone with jun-yusho, but he had some disturbing extra pressure before the bout - a box with the yusho fish tai was delivered to the heya.

Today he went home to Uto to report his results to the mayor and was interviewed 

[Yamanashi 4,040]

I've been following Ozumo for 10 years, and this Yusho winner was the most surprising, even more than Tokushoryu.  In that case, Tokushoryu wasn't given an opponent above M9 until day 14; Kotoshoho got Takayasu, Onosato, Kirishima and Aonishiki for his last four bouts.

[just_some_guy 305]

1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

I've been following Ozumo for 10 years, and this Yusho winner was the most surprising, even more than Tokushoryu.  In that case, Tokushoryu wasn't given an opponent above M9 until day 14; Kotoshoho got Takayasu, Onosato, Kirishima and Aonishiki for his last four bouts.

I'd rank this surprise well below that of Tokushoryu. Kotoshoho is still young-ish and I recall at least a little hype about his potential not long ago. Tokushoryu was 30something, was long established as a pedestrian Makuuchi guy who wasn't really even looking impressive in Juryo anymore. He was, by all appearances, approaching the tail end of his career and even returning to Makuuchi from Juryo wasn't a given. We'll see how the future plays out for Kotoshoho, but the rest of Tokushoryu's career emphasized what a wild, flukey occurrence his yusho was.

Just my opinion though and I will absolutely grant you that Kotoshoho was on my list of people I didn't ever expect to win a yusho.

Edited July 28 by just_some_guy

[WAKATAKE 2,758]

11 hours ago, hypnoowl said:

Now let's see if Tamawashi can go 12-3 in Aki from M1, get the apple of discord S2 slot for Kyushu and finally clinch an ozeki promotion as a birthday present.

What’s crazier is knowing that Tamawashi only needs 11 more wins to get onto the Makuuchi 700+ wins list. And then he only needs one more to tie Takanohana

[Bunbukuchagama 922]

On 27/07/2025 at 04:46, Akinomaki said:

All 3 makuuchi basho of Aonishiki with 11-4 and sansho, 2 more of that and he's ozeki

5 consecutive 11+ wins Makuuchi basho starting in Maegashira haven't happened in 85 years. 

Query result

Never in the modern era.

Here are S and K starts:

Query result

As you can see, only Terunofuji managed to produce such a streak starting at Komusubi. And yes, everyone on this list eventually ended up becoming a Yokozuna.

All of this serves to remind you of the magnitude of what you are expecting from him.

 

Edited July 28 by Bunbukuchagama