Nagoya 2023 discussion (results)

[Seiyashi 4,109]

9 hours ago, Katooshu said:

From my perspective, getting to juryo within 2-3 basho, then getting to makuuchi within the next 4 or 5 after that are the standards he should meet at minimum based on all that I've seen of him. Despite the 2-2 I think most likely he will KK again and stay on track. If he can't do that I will consider him to be underperforming. One of the consequences of Ochiai rising so quickly is that it can warp expectations of how quickly a top collegiate rikishi should move up, and if you really have seen people massively overhyping Onosato I think there's a good chance they've been caught in that trap.

I think the one lesson to take out of this is that sumo isn't transitive. Just because Ōnosato had a better am career than Hakuōhō doesn't mean he'll definitely do better than Hakuōhō.

That said, Ōnosato has less time than Hakuōhō. No one can stay perfect, but the more bouts he drops, the slower he'll rise.

[hakutorizakura 697]

8 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

It looks like we are not getting another jun-yusho run from Takayasu. Come back next time!

Okay who jinxed him this time?

[hakutorizakura 697]

6 hours ago, Leoben said:

Hoshoryu looking very much like an Ozeki today. He's now 2-0 against Asanoyama with his first win earned when Asanoyama was still an Ozeki himself.

Ah, it felt like Asa was demoted long ago and Hosh hasn't been in makuuchi for long. He's been around for quite some time actually.

[#1HENKAFAN 40]

Nishikigi is 6-1, tied for the lead, and already faced all the sanyaku. His yusho dream is far from over yet. Tamawashi will still have an easier schedule due to being lower ranked and Hoshoryu is also there of course (even if he should actually be 5-2) so maybe Nishikigi isn't the outright favorite but he's still in a strong position to take the yusho.

Also, I'm not going to be happy if Hoshoryu's unfair win gives him Ozeki or the yusho. Normally I like the guy but for this basho I am anti-Hoshoryu. I want him to win his promotion with no black clouds hanging over it.

Edited July 15, 2023 by #1HENKAFAN

[Leoben 178]

24 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

Ah, it felt like Asa was demoted long ago and Hosh hasn't been in makuuchi for long. He's been around for quite some time actually.

Debuted is September 2020. If he gets the promotion it will have taken him 18 basho to reach Ozeki, which slower than Takakeisho (14) and Asanoyama (16), but faster than Kirishima (20). 

[Fashiritētā 215]

41 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

Okay who jinxed him this time?

Raises hand

[Jakusotsu 6,428]

Quite funny how nobody even mentions Hokutofuji as we all know how that cookie is going to crumble.

[Thorbjarn 215]

I'm going to say it now... It's TaMawashi. We all know it. And I don't know what is going to happen to the world with three time Yusho winner Tamawashi at 73 years of age. 

It's crazy just how wild and out of hand this tournament seems be getting.

I'm thankful the Takayasu Yusho hopes are basically over (he's not going to win out). Couldn't deal with another heartbreak. 

[Bunbukuchagama 998]

1 minute ago, Thorbjarn said:

I'm thankful the Takayasu Yusho hopes are basically over (he's not going to win out).

His internal clock is off, he is thinking the last trimester of the basho has already started. Time to choke!

[Seiyashi 4,109]

Also to be fair to Asanoyama, Hōshōryū's uwatenage would have immediately felled any lesser rikishi.

[Kintamayama 47,440]

I disagree with everything written here, and yet agree with everything too. As for the yusho race, Nishikigi will end 9-6. Houshouryuu yusho (13-2) and the only Ozeki promotion. Endou will be in the race till the end. Hokutofuji 11 wins. Daieishou 10 wins. Wakamotoharu, 11 wins. Kirishima kadoban. Asanoyama 10 wins. Kotonowaka 11 wins. Ochiai 11 wins. Gounoyama is injured (total speculation). He will get kachikoshi. Mitakeumi kachikoshi. Shoudai another 6-9. Hokuseihou kachikoshi.

Thank you for watching.

[Bunbukuchagama 998]

17 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I disagree with everything written here, and yet agree with everything too. As for the yusho race, Nishikigi will end 9-6. Houshouryuu yusho (13-2) and the only Ozeki promotion. Endou will be in the race till the end. Hokutofuji 11 wins. Daieishou 10 wins. Wakamotoharu, 11 wins. Kirishima kadoban. Asanoyama 10 wins. Kotonowaka 11 wins. Ochiai 11 wins. Gounoyama is injured (total speculation). He will get kachikoshi. Mitakeumi kachikoshi. Shoudai another 6-9. Hokuseihou kachikoshi.

Thank you for watching.

Wow, I am impressed by the precision of your crystal ball. 

[Oshirokita 199]

30 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I disagree with everything written here, and yet agree with everything too. As for the yusho race, Nishikigi will end 9-6. Houshouryuu yusho (13-2) and the only Ozeki promotion. Endou will be in the race till the end. Hokutofuji 11 wins. Daieishou 10 wins. Wakamotoharu, 11 wins. Kirishima kadoban. Asanoyama 10 wins. Kotonowaka 11 wins. Ochiai 11 wins. Gounoyama is injured (total speculation). He will get kachikoshi. Mitakeumi kachikoshi. Shoudai another 6-9. Hokuseihou kachikoshi.

Thank you for watching.

I could believe everything above but Mitakeumi kachkoshi is still a pipe dream methinks.

[Chartorenji 243]

53 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I disagree with everything written here, and yet agree with everything too. As for the yusho race, Nishikigi will end 9-6. Houshouryuu yusho (13-2) and the only Ozeki promotion. Endou will be in the race till the end. Hokutofuji 11 wins. Daieishou 10 wins. Wakamotoharu, 11 wins. Kirishima kadoban. Asanoyama 10 wins. Kotonowaka 11 wins. Ochiai 11 wins. Gounoyama is injured (total speculation). He will get kachikoshi. Mitakeumi kachikoshi. Shoudai another 6-9. Hokuseihou kachikoshi.

Thank you for watching.

Tamawashi?

[Katooshu 3,485]

6 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I think the one lesson to take out of this is that sumo isn't transitive. Just because Ōnosato had a better am career than Hakuōhō doesn't mean he'll definitely do better than Hakuōhō.

That said, Ōnosato has less time than Hakuōhō. No one can stay perfect, but the more bouts he drops, the slower he'll rise.

Hakuoho was as least as accomplished as Onosato at the levels he did compete in the amateurs, and because he didn't go to college never had the chance to match or surpass him there, so it can be difficult to compare like that - I'd think Hakuoho would've been very decorated in college. Either way, they both have tremendous accomplishments that go even well beyond what current top level pros achieved - neither was just your standard high performing amateur; neither just your standard tsukedashi starter. 

And Hakuoho's rise in ozumo has been historic. If people think Onosato's a letdown because he's taking longer, they're pretty much expecting him to be the fastest riser of all time. I understand the elevated expectations, but that is a bit much! He'll probably still KK this basho and in his 3rd basho could very well be in juryo; I think that would be very good progress.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Katooshu

[Reonito 1,815]

4 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

His internal clock is off, he is thinking the last trimester of the basho has already started. Time to choke!

I was gonna say, week 2 started early for him this time

[Akinomaki 41,896]

Fans call it the angel wings of Asanoyama - they have grown smaller, the present tsukebito Asadoji who gives him his special pre-bout massage has smaller hands than the former, ex-bodybuilder Asakishin, who retired before his return to sekitori.

oo

in 2020

o

[Washuyama 662]

Re: Hokuseiho

My guess is he had a conversation with his Oyakata at some point that went something like this:

O:  Lower your Tachi-ai!  Stop letting everyone get morozashi on you so easily!!

H:  But Boss, I can beat these guys and get a KK with one arm tied behind my back.

O:  Prove it!

 

 

[Bunbukuchagama 998]

29 minutes ago, Washuyama said:

Re: Hokuseiho

My guess is he had a conversation with his Oyakata at some point that went something like this:

O:  Lower your Tachi-ai!  Stop letting everyone get morozashi on you so easily!!

H:  But Boss, I can beat these guys and get a KK with one arm tied behind my back.

O:  Prove it!

 

 

So, it is a bet?  I wonder what the winner will get. 

[Shikona 171]

On 14/07/2023 at 10:50, Seiyashi said:

Well, to be fair, he should have been 4-2.

Disagree--Tobizaru flying through the air on his back as Hoshoryu scratched a fingernail across the dohya is no loss. Without a foot slip against Nishikifuji, he should be 6-0.

[Morty 1,521]

22 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

That's really the point though. Despite being unfinished goods, Asanoyama couldn't handle him. Ura had to through everything but the kitchen sink at him to beat him. The guy fights everyone with one arm and is still winning. His shisho is the GOAT, who's too competitive to not make sure that his deshi are the best they can be. Once Hokuseiho fills out his body and actually learns to do sumo, he's going to be unstoppable. 

Also, he's only 21 years old...

[Bunbukuchagama 998]

1 minute ago, Morty said:

Also, he's only 21 years old...

Atamifuji is 20, Hakuoho is 19. Hoshoryu is 24, and it feels like he was here for ages. 

[Morty 1,521]

16 hours ago, Leoben said:

Hoshoryu looking very much like an Ozeki today. 

His sumo has been imperious to this point against some good opponents. He always had quality sumo but he seems to have taken that next step where he has added consistency to it. It will be interesting to see what happens when the three Sekiwake come up against each other given the stakes.

[Kintamayama 47,440]

8 hours ago, Chartorenji said:

Tamawashi?

10-5

[Kintamayama 47,440]

8 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Wow, I am impressed by the precision of your crystal ball. 

Crystal balls, sir. Crystal balls. As for the precision? We shall see..