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Hatsu 2020 Basho Discussion (SPOILERS)

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54 minutes ago, specialweek 2 said:

No idea what this means. 

Hakuho praised Endo after the bout but did say something strange, ' He thought his own sumo was too forceful.'

I think Hakuho was mad at himself and mad at Endo ... and then more so after he saw the picture with the tongue rolling.

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Because Hakuho has never shown his enjoyment at beating someone ...

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12 hours ago, Benihana said:

I always thought the zabuton are thrown to cheer for the upsetter, like hats are thrown in the western hemisphere.

I was trying to explain the appeal of sumo to a work colleague, something I bet most of us have tried.  I explained that when a grand champion lost, the crowd threw cushions into the ring and illustrated this with a clip of Mitakeumi beating Hak in 2017. His response was "so they're really angry, right".

I should point out that the sound was muted- we were at work after all.

Edited by Tigerboy1966
explanation

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Endo marches on while Goeido needs to sort himself out if he's going to avoid becoming the next former Ozeki.

Hokutofuji is also having a great start to the basho. Kakuryu not so much. Add Hakuho to that! 

Edited by Eikokurai

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Kinboshi open bar... the kyokai accountant is sweating

Edited by Rainoyama
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What can I even say but, "Guess who's not winning the cup this basho?"

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Now I'm getting worried.

I'm heading to the basho tomorrow and with both Yokozuna at 1-2 plus Goeido, Abi, and now Daieisho looking gimpy,  there's a good chance the highlight of the day may be a parade of fusensho banners.

 

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24 minutes ago, Dwale said:

What can I even say but, "Guess who's not winning the cup this basho?"

We’ll see. Hakuho could go on a run and end with 12/13, which could easily be enough. Harumafuji even managed a yusho with 11. These days 12/13 seems to be the norm for a championship. I’d rather see a new face though!

Edited by Eikokurai

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2 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:
14 hours ago, Benihana said:

I always thought the zabuton are thrown to cheer for the upsetter, like hats are thrown in the western hemisphere.

I was trying to explain the appeal of sumo to a work colleague, something I bet most of us have tried.  I explained that when a grand champion lost, the crowd threw cushions into the ring and illustrated this with a clip of Mitakeumi beating Hak in 2017. His response was "so they're really angry, right".

I should point out that the sound was muted- we were at work after all.

I have always been confused by the practice of zabuton throwing, despite knowledge of the original practice that zabuton throwing evolved from.  

What stuck in my mind is that the NSK makes repeated written and PA appeals to fans to refrain from the practice (even introducing fines for those who might have attempted it during President Trump's visit).  The fact that sumo fans defy the requests to refrain from zabuton throwing always struck me as evidence that the throwing is an expression of frustration and disgust.  I assumed that joy is easier to contain than frustration.  Furthermore, if the practice is meant to "cheer for the upsetter", why do we frequently see zabutons falling close to (as if targeted at) the Yokozuna/loser as he leaves the ring and heads back to the shitakubeya?  

Well, I checked with a Japanese friend and fellow sumo fan in Tokyo, and he affirmed that the practice of zabuton is one of pleasure, cheering for the underdog.  (I've revised my original post accordingly...) (Oops!)

 

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The last time Hakuho surrendered two gold stars in two successive days (yes, it has happened before) was the January 2018 Tournament.  He withdrew the very next day.  I will be disappointed, not surprised, if the GOAT decides to pull out of this tournament due to some heretofore undisclosed injury...  Will Kakuryu and Goeido follow suit?  Just when I thought we might get to enjoy a tournament with the banzuke more or less intact (i.e., minimal MIA cases), the threat of multiple kyujo looms...

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7 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

The last time Hakuho surrendered two gold stars in two successive days (yes, it has happened before) was the January 2018 Tournament.  He withdrew the very next day.  I will be disappointed, not surprised, if the GOAT decides to pull out of this tournament due to some heretofore undisclosed injury...  Will Kakuryu and Goeido follow suit?  Just when I thought we might get to enjoy a tournament with the banzuke more or less intact (i.e., minimal MIA cases), the threat of multiple kyujo looms...

Given Goeido’s status I think he will fight another day or two to see where he stands after five days. If he can claw it back to 2-3, he might continue; if not, maybe he’ll sit out and accept his Ozeki demotion.

Cue Goeido announcing intai.

Edited by Eikokurai
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1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

I have always been confused by the practice of zabuton throwing, despite knowledge of the original practice that zabuton throwing evolved from.  

What stuck in my mind is that the NSK makes repeated written and PA appeals to fans to refrain from the practice (even introducing fines for those who might have attempted it during President Trump's visit).  The fact that sumo fans defy the requests to refrain from zabuton throwing always struck me as evidence that the throwing is an expression of frustration and disgust.  I assumed that joy is easier to contain than frustration.  Furthermore, if the practice is meant to "cheer for the upsetter", why do we frequently see zabutons falling close to (as if targeted at) the Yokozuna/loser as he leaves the ring and heads back to the shitakubeya?  

Well, I checked with a Japanese friend and fellow sumo fan in Tokyo, and he affirmed that the practice of zabuton is one of pleasure, cheering for the underdog.  (I've revised my original post accordingly...) (Oops!)

 

Having participated in a few frenzies of purple rain back in the day, it is absolutely the thrill and the rush of the unexpected unfolding right there in front of the crowd. And then the mass expression of the sheer electricity that shoots through the crowd in that mad instant. The human poetry of free and spontaneous expression.

Edited by Otokonoyama
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Interesting night.  Another Hakuho loss. I think the Endo loss injured him but he stays in till he loses 1 more. New Emperor and all.

Kakuryu is looking very tired. Really has flu or something I think.  Zero chance he finishes this basho IMO.

Goeido? So awful. I expect he stays in for a while with the loss of both Yokozuna on the radar. He can still get his 8 wins.

Takakeisho doesn't look bad but also looks a bit tired. More flu?

Takayasu looked good for once. Can still get his 10 if the Yokozuna drop.

Asanoyama is looking like it's his Yusho unless someone takes it from him. Despite looking great, I don't expect that to be Endo.

Tochinoshin? At least he can say he looks better than Goeido. Abi is toast but I expect him to stick it out to the bitter end. Same with Meisei.

Shodai? You're kidding right? Cue the fade.  Ikioi? Looking tired too. But I expect he will turn it around.

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Just watched Juryo. Very good matches.

Teruonfuji is looking ridiculously strong and solid, considering. Hoshoryu tried hooking the leg over and over, got him nowhere. Great match.

Edited by Rocks
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Endo, Hokutofuji and Asanoyama are the stand outs so far. Wonder how long they can keep it up. Takakeisho and Hakuho are definitely not out of it at 2-1.

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16 minutes ago, YoungSumo said:

Endo, Hokutofuji and Asanoyama are the stand outs so far. Wonder how long they can keep it up. Takakeisho and Hakuho are definitely not out of it at 2-1.

Agree that they’re not out of it but Hakuho is 1-2 now and so two wins off the pace (as is Kakuryu).

Edited by Eikokurai

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So apparently today was the first in 22 years and 6 months that two Yokozuna have given up kinboshi on the same day. The last time was Takanohana and Akebono at Nagoya in 1997.

https://www.nikkansports.com/m/battle/sumo/news/202001140000793_m.html

Edit: That can’t be right. Kakuryu and Kisenosato both gave up kinboshi on day 3 of Hatsu last year and Kisenosato and Hakuho gave up kinboshi on day 3 of Hatsu in 2018. Something about day 3 at Hatsu that makes a Yokozuna vulnerable, I guess. I must read this article more carefully and determine the truth!

Edit: Ah, okay. I think I’ve got it. It’s the first time in 22 years 6 months that both Yokozuna in a two-Yokozuna era have given up kinboshi the same day. Those other examples had more than two active Yokozuna at the time.

Edited by Eikokurai
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2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

So apparently today was the first day in 22 years that two Yokozuna have given up kinboshi on the same day. The last time was Takanohana and Akebono in 1997.

https://www.nikkansports.com/m/battle/sumo/news/202001140000793_m.html

(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)(Zabutonflying...)

Edited by Rocks

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Unless anyone knows better, I think that this is the first time Hakuho has started 1-2 as a yokozuna. Kakuryu has been here at least twice before. The last yokozuna I can find who started 1-2 and went on to yusho was Onokuni in March 1988 when he went 13-2 and avoided what looked like an attempted kick to the nuts from Hokutoumi to win a play-off.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_basho.aspx?r=1350&b=198803

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5 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Unless anyone knows better, I think that this is the first time Hakuho has started 1-2 as a yokozuna. Kakuryu has been here at least twice before. The last yokozuna I can find who started 1-2 and went on to yusho was Onokuni in March 1988 when he went 13-2 and avoided what looked like an attempted kick to the nuts from Hokutoumi to win a play-off.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_basho.aspx?r=1350&b=198803

Correct, though he has started 0-2 and 2-2 (twice) before. All times he went kyujo right after.

Edited by Eikokurai

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All those counting the Yokozuna out, let's not forget Harumafuji's November 2017 yusho. 2-3 at day 5 to winning an 11-4 playoff. This sport is crazy, who knows where we end up.

That said, TAKAYASU YUSHO! #shamelessbias

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1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

So apparently today was the first in 22 years and 6 months that two Yokozuna have given up kinboshi on the same day. The last time was Takanohana and Akebono at Nagoya in 1997.

https://www.nikkansports.com/m/battle/sumo/news/202001140000793_m.html

Edit: That can’t be right. Kakuryu and Kisenosato both gave up kinboshi on day 3 of Hatsu last year. I must read this article more carefully and determine the truth!

In last year's (2019) Hatsu basho, Kakuryu only gave up one kinboshi, and that was on days 3 & 5, while Kise gave away kinboshi on days 2 & 3.  But your suspicions about recent instances of two kinboshi on the same day are not far off right.  Perhaps you were thinking of  In the 2018 Hatsu basho, both Hakuho and Kisenosato gave up a kinboshi on day 3.  Before that, both Kakuryu and Kise gave up kinboshi on day 3 of the 2017 Nagoya tournament.  So seeing two kinboshi on the same day is not that rare.  

But I think what the article in the link is saying, the last time both Yokozunas gave up gold stars on the same day (in times when there were only two Yokozunas on the banzuke) was 22 and a half years ago...  My Japanese is weak at best.

The other cases mentioned above came when there were three or more Yokozunas.  

Edited by Amamaniac

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7 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

In last year's (2019) Hatsu basho, Kakuryu only gave up one kinboshi, and that was on day 5, while Kise gave away kinboshi on days 2 & 3.  But you suspicions about recent instances of two kinboshi on the same day are not far off.  Perhaps you were thinking of the 2018 Hatsu basho, when both Hakuho and Kisenosato gave up a kinboshi on day 3.  Before that, both Kakuryu and Kise gave up kinboshi on day 3 of the 2017 Nagoya tournament.  So two kinboshi on the same day is not that rare.  

But I think what the article in the link is saying, the last time both Yokozunas gave up gold stars on the same day (in times when there were only two Yokozunas on the banzuke) was 22 and a half years ago...  My Japanese is weak at best.

The other cases mentioned above came when there were three or more Yokozunas.  

He lost to M2 Nishikigi on day 3.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_basho.aspx?r=1219&b=201901

Kise lost to M1 Tochiozan.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_basho.aspx?r=1235&b=201901

Other than that, yes, I believe that is what it actually means. The headline is misleading. In the fine print it does say “2横綱時代”.

Edited by Eikokurai
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