Sakura

Hatsu 2020 Basho Discussion (SPOILERS)

Recommended Posts

46 minutes ago, Raishu said:

As much as I like Kakuryu, the next time he competes, it should be a "do-or-die-basho" for him.

He's been there before. Many times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

I think we can read too much into Kakuryu’s performance. He reported having a fever which he may still be feeling the effects of. He can recover from that. The previous two basho he was dealing with the death of his Oyakata and the heya move. That noticeably affected his concentration. Go back three basho though and he’s put up 14-1, taking his sixth yusho and capping a three-basho streak of double digits.

Fair enough, but it simply doesn't work that way when you are at the top of the banzuke.

As a Yokozuna, you'll have to meet the claim to always compete for the Yusho and to enter the basho at full strength and spirit. If Kakuryu isn't ready to compete (fever, Michinoku transfer, etc.) then he shouldn't enter the basho. This is not my opinion - this is what the YDC, the fans, the people and the Japanese media expect from a Yokozuna. Kakuryu is on decline, and he is not to blame for that. The guy is almost 35 years old, has been active for almost 20 years and injuries are catching up to him. He was MIA the entire year of 2017 except for a flattering 10-5 in March (as a side note: reaching for double digits is what people expect from an Ozeki not from a Yokozuna - posting 10-5's or 11-4's here and there does not suit the highest rank). The first half of 2018 was very good and after that only his performance in July 2019 was praiseworthy - 11 kyujo's in three years (dropping out seven times after having entered).

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and wish him nothing but luck. But his responsibility as a Yokozuna is to perform in formidable manner (a lot of pulling recently) and to post great results and I don't see this anymore.

@robnplunder: Kisenosato's story is a different one. He and his confidants simply made the wrong decision not to perform surgery and fully heal. With Kakuryu, it seems more like constant "smaller" nagging injuries affect his abilities and these probably won't go away anymore.

Edited by Raishu
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

He's been there before. Many times.

True.

So let's wait and see what he will make out of it next time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It may surprise you but Kakuryu has managed double figures more times than Hakuho in the last two years (7 to 6). They’re even on yusho in that time (3 a piece). Is it time for Hakuho to be given an ultimatum or does he get more rope because when he comes back he wins big?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

It may surprise you but Kakuryu has managed double figures more times than Hakuho in the last two years (7 to 6). They’re even on yusho in that time (3 a piece). Is it time for Hakuho to be given an ultimatum or does he get more rope because when he comes back he wins big?

Nah, he gets more rope because he is fricking Hakuho! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Morty said:

Nah, he gets more rope because he is fricking Hakuho! 

A man can’t trade on his reputation forever. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Asanoyama must feel frustrated. He's not been able to do his own sumo in the last two bouts, being very efficiently suppressed by his opponents. I'm sure he must recognise the opening that is appearing in the ozeki ranks so whether that is putting additional pressure on him or simply he's lacked preparation or concentration is hard to say. 

Shodai and Endo on the other hand must be feeling pretty well about themselves :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

It may surprise you but Kakuryu has managed double figures more times than Hakuho in the last two years (7 to 6). They’re even on yusho in that time (3 a piece).

Don't worry, I am pretty aware of Hakuho's results over the last years, so no surprises here. ;-)

Since I was refering to the last three years of Kakuryu in my analysis, we should apply the same standard for Hakuho, should we? :-)

What we can see is, that he is on decline as well (no surprises here either, given his age and length of his career). Further, he barely posted 10-5's and 11-4's because he: a) captured the yusho with a better record, b) dropped out early enough to avoid a 10-5 finish or c) didn't even enter to avoid a feeble performance. Hence the impression, that Hakuho was doing better than Kakuryu.

Additionally, looking at sheer yusho wins, the record is 6-3 in favor of Hakuho.

Quote

Is it time for Hakuho to be given an ultimatum [...]

When he starts to alternate between low double-digit results, in-basho withdrawals and pre-basho kyujo's with a yusho every 12-18 months, than my answer is a definite "YES!" :-)

Quote

[...] or does he get more rope because when he comes back he wins big?

I would agree to this statement. I think, this is what many perceive.

And Morty surely is right, when he says Hakuho has more credit due to his success, reputation and legacy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Next Ozeki, as I always say.

And will continue to do so after every new ozeki arrives?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, lackmaker said:

And will continue to do so after every new ozeki arrives?

I'll be right, eventually.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I'll be right, eventually.

I'm trying not to think about the day when we will not only have Shodai as ozeki but you will be reminding us of your prescience.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Raishu said:
Quote

Is it time for Hakuho to be given an ultimatum [...]

When he starts to alternate between low double-digit results, in-basho withdrawals and pre-basho kyujo's with a yusho every 12-18 months, than my answer is a definite "YES!" :-)

Recent record aside, Hakuho won't be going anywhere for at least half a year.  Everyone knows he wants to remain an active rikishi/Yokozuna until the Tokyo Games are done and dusted.  Ain't no ultimatum that will change that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some fantastic sumo today. I particularly enjoyed Daieisho's miraculous comeback and Abi's emulation of his shisho Terao (with the advantages of more height and weight). 

What about Endo, though? I've been increasingly impressed by his recent performances and this basho he's on fire. Today was no exception. Sad to think, however, that he could have been doing this five years ago if he'd taken time to recover from his injury...

Edited by RabidJohn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hakuho has been playing this "on-and-off" game since 2017, I would be surprised if they suddenly decide it's an issue. He will cruise his way to Olympia and the retire, maybe even snag a yusho along the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

Some fantastic sumo today. I particularly enjoyed Daieisho's miraculous comeback and Abi's emulation of his shisho Terao (with the advantages of more height and weight). 

What about Endo, though? I've been increasingly impressed by his recent performances and this basho he's on fire. Today was no exception. Sad to think, however, that he could have been doing this five years ago if he'd taken time to recover from his injury...

His injury was clearly something that held him back. But his meteoric rise up the ranks meant also that he needed to learn and adjust at a high level rather than gradually as he progressed, which is a tougher task. Let's hope, for the good of the sport, this is the breakthrough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to say that I thoroughly enjoy the basho. There are so many spirited bouts, and rikishi at the top of their game. In my opinion, we're seeing the best ever Shodai, Kagayaki, Terutsuyoshi, Endo, Hokutofuji, Yutakayama, Asanoyama, Enho, Daieisho, Takanosho, Kiribayama and the best Terunofuji, Kotoshogiko, Takakeisho in a long time.

I don't really think that the struggling Hakuho, Kakuryo, Goeido, Takayasu are so weak - it's just that they can't snatch the victories in the jo-i as easily as they used to because they have fierce opposition where 90% is simply not enough. I can clearly remember the escalator Rikishi who moved from mid-meagashira to up to Sekiwake and back - and the Yokozunae would have basically just to turn up to get the win.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Sumo_da said:

While Asanoyama looks dominant when he can execute his sumo he often still looks helpless when it comes to defensive sumo. And the one thing about Abi is that if you underestimate his sumo you are almost sure to lose.

To the contrary, I see Asanoyama as a great defender. However, he often relies on that too much for my taste. Only if he learns to get the initiative more often, he will be ready for Ozekihood.

And for Abi, you're so right! You simply can not have him make his own game - he will be unstoppable. It's the same with Kotoshogiko, once he has his preferred position, you cannot defend it - Kisenosato, also with a rather passive, reactive style, had so much trouble with him.

After the Yokozunae have gone Kyujo, Takakeisho is the highest ranked remaining Rikishi, and in my opinion the top candidate for the Yusho right now. However, the competition is so close, anybody out of possibly 10 rikishi could make it - what an excitement!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, lackmaker said:

I'm trying not to think about the day when we will not only have Shodai as ozeki but you will be reminding us of your prescience.

That's all I'm good at-reminding people of my correct prophecies and not mentioning my wrong ones. That's what i live for actually. And, in case everyone forgot, I said categorically that  Kakuryuu wouldn't last the first five days of this basho. Received no credit. None. He will retire at the end of this basho.

Edited by Kintamayama
  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

That's all I'm good at-reminding people of my correct prophecies and not mentioning my wrong ones. That's what i live for actually. And, in case everyone forgot, I said categorically that  Kakuryuu wouldn't last the first five days of this basho. Received no credit. None. He will retire at the end of this basho.

You remember the correct prophecies we remember the rest. It's a perfectly workable relationship. (If a somewhat bigger job for us!)

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, lackmaker said:

You remember the correct prophecies we remember the rest. It's a perfectly workable relationship. (If a somewhat bigger job for us!)

Believe me, I remember the bad ones very well as they are the large majority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What happened to Meisei? He appears to have his entire left arm bandaged. I hope that is not a long term injury.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

What happened to Meisei? He appears to have his entire left arm bandaged. I hope that is not a long term injury.

 

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a little late, but anyone notice those pretty shots of the tawara earlier?

UIOfjBt.jpg

fzPDKn9.jpg

ziCQIml.jpg

"徳俵" - didn't know that word!

There was also a nice pan of the Kokugikan that I assembled into a panorama:

y63VPq4.jpg

 

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today once again made really wish rikishi were allowed to heal their injuries rather than "power through" and basically handicap themselves on the long term. Tochinoshin, meisei, takayasu... Today was rough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now