Kyushu 2014 - General Talk

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

Here's a stat. Tochinoshin 43-2 (and 20 straight wins) since returning from the surgery. And don't tell me Makushita, Juryo, etc. This is phenomenal. If only Baruto had gone that way when he still could. I'm guessing Tochinoshin hasn't been healthy for a few years before the surgery.

We'll have to see how far he goes.

Tochinoshin is really looking great. I mean, 13-2 and 15-0 in Juryo is no small task. He's just looking really solid. I was a big fan of his back when I first started watching Sumo, second to Harumafuji of course.

Honestly, the first time reading I wondered if it is even possible to have back fetish, but sadly then I understood the sentence, destroying my future fantasies. :-D

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

Brought to you from the quirky stat department: Tochiozan is the first maegashira with more than 15 wins against his yokozuna opponent Kakuryu going into the bout (a very respectable 16-17 before the bout) since Nagoya 2003, day 4. Back then Takanonami was 20-38 against Musashimaru and he even got a kinboshi. 20 wins also is the alltime record. The other pairings are Takamiyama-Wajima (up to 19), Kotonishiki-Musashimaru (18), Takamiyama-Mienoumi (16) and Takatoriki-Akebono (16).

[Shiro 13]

Speaking of stats, does anyone or has anyone compared how many wins and Yusho's Chyonofuji and Taiho had when they were Haks age? Or at least a "by this point in their career" comparison?

[Asashosakari 20,222]

Speaking of stats, does anyone or has anyone compared how many wins and Yusho's Chyonofuji and Taiho had when they were Haks age? Or at least a "by this point in their career" comparison?

Chiyonofuji is always hard to compare since he was such an extreme late bloomer - by his 30th birthday he had only won 12 yusho. Taiho had 31 yusho and retired less than a year later. Hakuho of course turns 30 in March. By tenure, Hakuho is in his 44th yokozuna basho - Taiho had won 29 yusho at that point, Chiyonofuji 26.

The remarkable thing about Hakuho isn't even how good he is, but how durable. Taiho was at 25 yusho by the time he turned 27 (three more than Hakuho at the same age), but the remaining 4 years of his career were a real up and down - three more zensho, four 14-1 records and another 7 yusho altogether, but also 11 incomplete/missed tournaments (out of 24 total).

Similarly, Takanohana won his 20th yusho shortly after turning 26. He was active for another 4+ years but only won two more titles, and failed to complete 14 of 26 tournaments.

[yorikiried by fate 2,038]

Speaking of stats, does anyone or has anyone compared how many wins and Yusho's Chyonofuji and Taiho had when they were Haks age? Or at least a "by this point in their career" comparison?

Well, I kind of did that, but I need to update, it seems.

[Jakusotsu 6,387]

There's been a nice graph on NHK comparing those 3 yokozuna during the Makuuchi break on shonichi. Perhaps someone recording Niji might be able to post.

[Highway 46]

Great fight today in Kakuryu v Tochiozan, hopefully more of today. Aoiyama - Ichinojo should be good tommorow, hoping the former can pull it off, but I doubt it.

[shumitto 418]

The remarkable thing about Hakuho isn't even how good he is, but how durable.

Years ago there was a discussion about how long Hakuho would last at the top. 27 was the age cited as the likely turning point, when rather precocious Yokozuna start to "crack", slow down and win fewer titles. I kind of bought that idea but deep down there remained the belief that he was of a different fabric; and indeed.

I can still grab Makuuchi on NHK ( if I can manage to record it) but boy, do I miss juryo, makushita and etc...

[Asashosakari 20,222]

Years ago there was a discussion about how long Hakuho would last at the top. 27 was the age cited as the likely turning point, when rather precocious Yokozuna start to "crack", slow down and win fewer titles. I kind of bought that idea but deep down there remained the belief that he was of a different fabric; and indeed.

My personal rule of thumb these days is "10 years against elite competition", i.e. starting with a rikishi's arrival in the joi, before significant decline normally starts to set in. Hakuho is exactly at 10 years now. I'm still convinced he won't see his 33rd birthday as an active rikishi, but it does look like he'll hold together better than most star rikishi. And of course even three more years would be plenty of time to obliterate the entire record book, as long as he doesn't get as brittle as Taiho and Takanohana did.

[torquato 1,075]

There's been a nice graph on NHK comparing those 3 yokozuna during the Makuuchi break on shonichi. Perhaps someone recording Niji might be able to post.

Here it is:

[kosomo 32]

Is is just me, or should Osunaarashi have been given the win in his bout against Toyonoshima? Rewatching the replay, you can see Osunaarashi still in mid-air while Toyonoshima's hand touched the ground.

[Yubinhaad 11,954]

If Aminishiki's leg-wraps get any bigger, he might as well be wearing ice hockey goalie pads.

I can show you the rather industrial-looking knee brace which Aminishiki wears under the bandages, at least on one leg anyway.

[Mongolith 51]

Is is just me, or should Osunaarashi have been given the win in his bout against Toyonoshima? Rewatching the replay, you can see Osunaarashi still in mid-air while Toyonoshima's hand touched the ground.

They have a special rule for when the body is in the air. I copied/cropped the wiki quote that explains it below. I don't think the rule below should have applied as Osu had a foot an the straw bale and was forcing him down. Still I guess that may be the reason why they did not give him the win as I watched it several times and his opponent seemed to touch down first. Regardless Osu has looked pretty shabby this Basho.

Shini-tai (死に体^?) is an exception to the rule. Literally meaning 'dead body' or 'dying body,' the term is used to describe a wrestler who was not first to fall or touch outside the ring, but who had no chance of winning owing to the superior technique of his opponent. Whilst a relatively rare event, it is most often seen after close bouts in which one wrestler clearly had the advantage towards the end.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Mongolith

[kosomo 32]

good point. Osunaarashi has been looking really weak since he's no longer trying to destory his opponent at the tachiai with his forearm smash. I don't know where I read it, but that it was being frowned upon by his oyakata? Was he made to stop that? do you all think that it should be allowed?

Edited November 11, 2014 by kosomo

[Asameshimae 220]

The Big Sandy talk I heard from all the die hard fans who sit and watch sumo all day everyday (mostly retired people obviously) was that there was talk among wrestlers (especially ones that had taken the forearm) that Osuna could very well be hiding some piece of metal or the like in the wrapping he had on his forearm when he executed that "move". Regardless of the veracity of this claim, it seems the forearm move is no longer in Big Sandy's repetoire.

[I am the Yokozuna 221]

When I am asking myself of whether I have heard it all, then that comes to light: a bloody metal piece. But it has to be the foreigner. No way he would be good enough otherwise. It serves to prove of what a saying in my home country goes - if only by watching you are supposed to get good at something, the stadium stands should be the best football players around.

[Mongolith 51]

good point. Osunaarashi has been looking really weak since he's no longer trying to destory his opponent at the tachiai with his forearm smash. I don't know where I read it, but that it was being frowned upon by his oyakata? Was he made to stop that? do you all think that it should be allowed?

I don't care much for the forearm shiv and would not mind it banned. Its not that I dislike strikes, as I like tsuppari and don't mind slapfests like takayusa and Yoshikaze on day 2. That Forearm shiv just seems something you would use on a street brawl and not in a sumo ring. Still if I were a Rikishi and that was my best move I would continue using it until it got banned. Then again sumo culture is way different than other combat sports I am used to.

[Mongolith 51]

Also another reason I may like tsuppari is that I used to play street fighter and that was about all my knowledge of sumo til I started watching it a couple years back. Hundred Hand Slap was the shit lol.

​

[Asojima 2,874]

Sadanoumi forgot to read the book on Endo. He fell for the scenario Endo counted on when he first came on the scene.

[Jakusotsu 6,387]

Thanks for sharing!

Any clue what the three outlined stars are about?

[Hakuhonofan 334]

Thanks for sharing!

Any clue what the three outlined stars are about?

the 30th?

[kuroimori 1,634]

Thanks for sharing!Any clue what the three outlined stars are about?

Probably Yusho No. 30 - in case their count the stars from bottom to top?

[torquato 1,075]

Any clue what the three outlined stars are about?

I was puzzled about this for hours, now. Eventually I just found out: It's always the 30th yusho! You have to count the stars from bottom to top in each column. :)

Edit: Apparently some guys here are much smarter to spot that out much quicker than me... :)

Edited November 11, 2014 by torquato

[Jakusotsu 6,387]

Edit: Apparently some guys here are much smarter to spot that out much quicker than me... :)

Yup, that solution was far too simple for me to find. B-)

[krindel 688]

Kyokutenho. Age 40 and counting. 3-0 start in Makuuchi. And against no pushovers either. That guy keeps amazing me...

(Showing respect...)