Kyushu 2014 - General Talk

[ALAKTORN 346]

^Sadanofuji’s certainly wasn’t an obvious case like we’ve seen before, but I think the decision was correct. Opinions, though. But saying that it was the same as Hakuhō’s is a pure lie.

[shumitto 419]

Sadanoumi clearly grabbed Chiyotoori's hair. You can see his hand firmly holding it.

It would have been a bit more risky than Jokoryu, but I really considered picking Tochiozan at the chain gang today. Harumafuji is kyujo-bound and intai might be looming.

I am afraid we have seen the best from Osunaarashi. That explosive tachiai - with brass knuckles in his hands, a source has confided to me - was the best he could offer. Now in that shape the Egyptian is another young talent dealing with some serious injuries and looking older than Kyokutenho (Masunoyama is somehow managing upper makushita, Chiyoarashi is on his way to wearing Aminishiki-like braces while Chiyonokuni takes the prize in this category).

[Kintamayama 47,357]

Papers are saying the Sadanoumi decision was based on the new hair- pulling rule amendment decided by the Kyokai after Aki- they took away the "with intent" from the hair-pulling clause- thus the hansoku.

That's what the papers are saying.

[Asameshimae 220]

The Big Sandy talk I heard from all the die hard fans who sit and watch sumo all day everyday (mostly retired people obviously) was that there was talk among wrestlers (especially ones that had taken the forearm) that Osuna could very well be hiding some piece of metal or the like in the wrapping he had on his forearm when he executed that "move". Regardless of the veracity of this claim, it seems the forearm move is no longer in Big Sandy's repetoire.

u

I've seen some BS on this forum before but that takes the biscuit. Gotta say bud I'm really surprised you would put that kind of nonsense out there. Even if you did hear it from the drunk gossipers, it's surprising you didn't have the common sense to dismiss it immediately.

Sorry, I missed this the first time around.

In answer to your question: I have nothing personal (or impersonal for that matter) against Osuna. I do have common sense, I think, but possibly not in this case. It never occurred to me this might lead to more negativity against Osuna at some point if it "got legs". I just thought it was interesting what you hear about rikishi. I hear all kinds of things which I don't bother to pass on (which I am sure you do in spades) but it is rare to hear something about a rikishi's dohyo actions and that's what motivated me to share. I mentioned where I heard the info as a caveat, and I did write later that I found it dubious myself.

Regardless, it was careless and I will be more careful with what I share in the future. You were right to call me on it. Mea culpa.

This was written on my mobile so sorry for any errors.

[yorikiried by fate 2,038]

Hairpull is the new matta.

[Asameshimae 220]

It seems to me in a lot of cases, intent would be hard to judge - and Sadanoumi's fingers are well inside the mage. So what can you do? The only time I can remember when it looked intentional without question was Shoryu's pull of Kyokushuzan.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Asameshimae

[krindel 688]

It seems to me in a lot of cases, intent would be hard to judge - and Sadanoumi's fingers are well inside the mage. So what can you do?

Institute a radical policy change in keeping with the new stance of the Kyokai with regard to the plague that is hairpulling.

Introducing the new, exciting tool for the tokoyama of the 21st century: The razor!

No more hairpulls, problem solved...

[Asameshimae 220]

It seems to me in a lot of cases, intent would be hard to judge - and Sadanoumi's fingers are well inside the mage. So what can you do?

Institute a radical policy change in keeping with the new stance of the Kyokai with regard to the plague that is hairpulling.

Introducing the new, exciting tool for the tokoyama of the 21st century: The razor!

No more hairpulls, problem solved...

Genius! However, mage pulling is just one more funny little variable that keeps sumo interesting for me. I wouldn't want to be a rikishi who was called for it, but it adds intrigue all the same.

[Asameshimae 220]

No worries. Keep up the good work.

[I am the Yokozuna 222]

I hope Tochinoshin plays it smartly and aims for 8-7 or 7-8 finish, provided his injury allows him to finish the tournament. He just, in my mind, needs some time to readjust to the new guys in the makuuchi, not to the makuuchi experience itself.

Ikioi, in my mind, is 10 kgs in upper muscle mass away from being a regular in the sanyaku. Great spirit ;) as always.

Hope Harumafuji could calm down a bit and tries to focus on mawashi related techniques in a way to preserve his energy, especially against rikishis with similar build as his.

[Treblemaker 254]

It's been a while since I was able to see all three dohyo-iri as displayed by the Yoks Three. To be honest, Hak and HF have changed their styles slightly in the past 6 months (when I saw them last). First chance to really watch Kak.

My personal feelings (YMMV, and probably will):

Best: Kakuryu. Smooth, very few herky-jerky moves, parts reminded me of Asa, before he started the bouncy thing on the tawara. Very nice, dignified but not pretentious. All components flowed into each other.

Next: Hakuho. I notice that he's speeded up his routine, especially the late stomps. Also, he claps down - he never did that before... And still the exaggerated low bow before an uneven rise... I think he's done this so often that it's almost auto - and that might have an effect on the quality of it.

Wurst: HF. Can't put my finger on it, but in almost every aspect, it feels like he's trying to be individualistic - and this is well within his character. Lots of herky-jerky stuff, a very uncomfortable-looking (and uneven) rise from the low position, He just doesn't look as comfortable doing this as Kakuryu does - and he looks like he's been doing it for years...

I remember watching videos of some of the old guys, and was more impressed with those that did everything in one smooth motion. Kitanoumi (?) I think was a smooth operator.

But tonight, I was impressed with Kakuryu. Did NOT look like a relatively new Yok. HF, OTOH, well, I still think he's not 100% comfortable with the dance yet.

All of this is just IMHO. YMMV, and I'm sure it will/does.

Not a big crowd out there, for Day 5. Maybe if I travel through 14 time zones, I might still get a good seat....

[torquato 1,075]

Maybe if I travel through 14 time zones, I might still get a good seat....

I'd suggest the other way around the globe. Saves you 4 time zones... ;) Well, unless you want to make a stopover here and pick me up... :)

[Hakuyobaku 33]

I hope Tochinoshin plays it smartly and aims for 8-7 or 7-8 finish, provided his injury allows him to finish the tournament. He just, in my mind, needs some time to readjust to the new guys in the makuuchi, not to the makuuchi experience itself.

Clearly you aren't the Yokozuna of planning.. :)

Why would you aim for a 8-7 or (jesus christ) 7-8 finish with a 4-1 start? That's so negative. I think he just needs to aim at a win every single time. Like you should as a wrestler..

[Tsubame 378]

Have to say, that I wasn't really surprised to see that semi-henka-technique from Harumafuji again in this tournament. Desperate times call for desperate measures...

[Naganoyama 6,043]

The Big Sandy talk I heard from all the die hard fans who sit and watch sumo all day everyday (mostly retired people obviously) was that there was talk among wrestlers (especially ones that had taken the forearm) that Osuna could very well be hiding some piece of metal or the like in the wrapping he had on his forearm when he executed that "move". Regardless of the veracity of this claim, it seems the forearm move is no longer in Big Sandy's repetoire.

u

I've seen some BS on this forum before but that takes the biscuit. Gotta say bud I'm really surprised you would put that kind of nonsense out there. Even if you did hear it from the drunk gossipers, it's surprising you didn't have the common sense to dismiss it immediately.

Sorry, I missed this the first time around.

In answer to your question: I have nothing personal (or impersonal for that matter) against Osuna. I do have common sense, I think, but possibly not in this case. It never occurred to me this might lead to more negativity against Osuna at some point if it "got legs". I just thought it was interesting what you hear about rikishi. I hear all kinds of things which I don't bother to pass on (which I am sure you do in spades) but it is rare to hear something about a rikishi's dohyo actions and that's what motivated me to share. I mentioned where I heard the info as a caveat, and I did write later that I found it dubious myself.

Regardless, it was careless and I will be more careful with what I share in the future. You were right to call me on it. Mea culpa.

This was written on my mobile so sorry for any errors.

I can perfectly see why some people might have been distressed by your post, but I didn't read it at all as an endorsement of the gossip, just a reporting of what you had heard. Despite feeling very shocked by the disgusting attitudes that we have now heard about, I think that posting was the right thing after all. Those of us who are quite remote from Japan would have no other way of finding out just what Boody has to face. Wow. And I thought that Ramadan was the highest hurdle!

[Asameshimae 220]

I hadn't looked at it that way. Good to know some good has come of it.

[Morty 1,518]

Some awesome sumo today.

Toyonoshima was brilliant against Teronofuji - just hung in there against a much bigger guy and waited for his chance.

The Endo - Jokoryu bout was great from start to finish.

Chiyotairyu demonstrated that when he gives up the push-pull stuff he can be totally dominant.

And I've said this before and I'll say it again, but Kisenosato could really benefit from a few sessions with a sport's psychologist. He'd already lost that before he stepped on the Dohyo. He would have been a Yok years ago if he could get his head straight...

[Shitamachi 21]

Some awesome sumo today.

Agreed 100%. I would add the Kakuryu-Takarafuji bout as another highlight. The way Takara moves for a man of his size is impressive. Very agile at the edge of the dohyo. Too bad he couldn't transform that into a w against Kak. Edited November 13, 2014 by Shitamachi

[lackmaker 458]

Have to say, that I wasn't really surprised to see that semi-henka-technique from Harumafuji again in this tournament. Desperate times call for desperate measures...

Have to say, that I wasn't really surprised to see that semi-henka-technique from Harumafuji again in this tournament. Desperate times call for desperate measures...

Cant say I wholly agree. He doesn't avoid contact and shows good speed and technique getting the left hand grip.

[Gurowake 4,154]

The oblique tachiai by Harumafuji is not nearly the same thing as a henka, given that he still moves forward and makes contact on the initial charge. He just does it at an angle that allows him to get his opponent off-balance in an extremely fast and fluid motion. It's extremely difficult to defend well against, but only because he's at the top of the game in terms of speed and technique. You see plenty of others guys do the awful henkas, but I don't think I've seen anyone else do the angled charge followed by swift shift to the side that Harumafuji uses very effectively.

[Adil 232]

Damn Harumafuji! We are in for another henka debate. Let me save everybody some time and list the most common points that will possibly come up ;-):

1) It was a henka.

2) It wasn't a henka.

3) The henka-er is at fault.

4) The henka-ee is at fault.

5) That is not yokozuna sumo.

6) Either have the kyokai declare it illegal or learn to live with it.

On another note: Absolutely stupendous stuff from Toyonoshima. The way Terunofuji gets that kimedashi grip and Toyonoshima's short arms (perfect for a kiemdashi grip) made me think Toyonoshima was toast, but that dude just pulled one out of the locker. Let's hope there are more matches like that this basho!

Edited November 13, 2014 by Adil

[ALAKTORN 346]

Loved Aoiyama today. Super explosive tachiai, followed by the most powerful oshi attack in the game.

[Treblemaker 254]

Damn Harumafuji! We are in for another henka debate. Let me save everybody some time and list the most common points that will possibly come up ;-):

1) It was a henka.

2) It wasn't a henka.

3) The henka-er is at fault.

4) The henka-ee is at fault.

5) That is not yokozuna sumo.

6) Either have the kyokai declare it illegal or learn to live with it.

7) It was just superior technique.

At first, I wasn't a great fan of the henka, but I realized that anyone who fall for it is totally to blame for not keeping their head on a swivel and watching out for the Red Cape. Kotoshogiku is notoriously prone to a good, juicy henka, and he deserves the munch on sand when it happens. If successful, the henka-ee is totally at fault.

Now, having said that, is it proper sumo (in the "moving forward" sense)? No, of course not. But it's a strategy, it's legal, and very effective against some rikishi who just don't pay attention. And practitioners who excel at it, like Aminishiki, can read their opponents tachi-ai.

If I was up there, I'd be using it regularly. If opponents become aware that it might be coming, and they start looking for it, it slows down their attack, and perhaps the hesitation might leave them prone to a really good, hard and fast tachi-ai. Kind of like a good change-up in a pitcher's arsenal. Or a knuckle ball. And speed and footwork (as with HF) is the key to confusion.

The real fun starts when both guys pull it at the same time... (The henka, not what you were just thinking. Shame on you.)

[Tsubame 378]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind henkas. A Henka is a legal (and very easy and very effortless) way to win. But I think Harumafuji is a skillful rikishi with a broad set of techniques. And henkas look sometimes desperate, like a desperate need for wins (not always, sometimes it is just the perfect time to use it).

A Harumafuji with already two loss out of four fights, who uses a "semi-henka", just emphizises the impression of a desperate man.

I would like to see him winning with "normal" techniques. And I also do not want to start a discussion about him and his performance. I like him and I would not critizise him even if he finish 8-7.

He can be the "cure" we need after two super-dai-yokozunas to judge the performance of yokozunas in a fair and reasonable way.

[CT3* 331]

I like Harumafuji as well. But it'd be hard not to criticize any Yokozuna that finished with a 8-7 record.