Have admitted publicly to baseball gambling

[Jonosuke 28]

started with Kotomitsuki and it has opened up a can of worms.

They are now saying it started with Sanoyama/Chiyotaikai. Apparently Kotomitsuki talked about his inability to get his winning to his buddy, Taikai, and Taikai went to talk to Furuichi and told him his big bro' is one big bad dude not paying up to Kotomitsuki.

Then his big bro' got mad and told Mitsuki to pay a sum of money or he would go to the media, which started this whole slew of mess.

Apparently by this time Mitsuki was helping out and shouldering Otake's huge debts which is said to have been around hundred thousands yen and he needed every yen he could muster. To let Mitsuki know who he has been dealing with, Furuichi the elder came to see him with another man of certain distinction.

[Asashosakari 20,309]

Apparently by this time Mitsuki was helping out and shouldering Otake's huge debts which is said to have been around hundred thousands yen and he needed every yen he could muster. To let Mitsuki know who he has been dealing with, Furuichi the elder came to see him with another man of certain distinction.

A few hundred thousand yen wouldn't be a huge debt. :-( Nikkan puts the amount that Otake borrowed from Kotomitsuki in the 20-30 million yen range.

In addition, apparently it also didn't help his cause that (like Kotomitsuki and seemingly also Tokitsukaze) Otake didn't come clean right away and first claimed he didn't engage in any gambling.

Edit: I guess we've finally found a kabu for ex-Kobo to take...how ironic.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Peterao 3]

The guy from the Germany -England match

The one from 1966 ?

Maybe someon could shed some light on it, but it appears there also some baseball players involved who have already been dismissed. It started with Kotomitsuki and it has opened up a can of worms.

And there is an interesting poll.

http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/sumo/ne...627-646615.html

The question I find most interesting from that poll:

Of recent scandals, which one is the most troubling?

43.2% Rikishi hazing death

41.8% Baseball gambling problem

9.9% Asashoryu's actions

4.1% Marijuana problem

1.0% Yakuza receiving preferred seating

These results should be very troubling for the Kyokai. Even in Japan, baseball gambling pales in comparison to the ritualistic killing of a 17-year-old boy. The only explanation I can come up with for gambling being equated with manslaughter is that people believe the scope of gambling is far wider. They are willing to believe that one evil oyakata was responsible for that rikishi's death, but do not believe that the gambling problem is limited to Kotomitsuki and a few others. They believe gambling, and all the sordid connotations therein, are firmly embedded throughout the entire Ozumo system.

I believe that any Western PR firm would recommend that the NSK immediately cancel the Nagoya basho, to give people the pound of flesh they will need to believe that the Kyokai is serious about fixing the problem. Do not wait until July 4th; do it now, and don't even think of scheduling another basho until they come clean with everything there is to reveal, and the measures they intend to implement to fix the problem and regain the public's trust. If they try to continue with this basho with merely a few suspensions and expulsions, that will show that they have no intention of doing anything other than make a scapegoat, stalling for time, and hoping that everything will eventually blow over.

This being Japan, that strategy might have actually worked in the Showa era. But not in this time. Even in Japan, the winds of change still blow, and they blow hard enough to knock over any strawman the Kyokai can manage to build.

[Kotoviki 16]

I say make all those implicated kyujo for the first seven days. They all show up starting on nakabi and have to win all their bouts to get a KK or do extremely well to avoid a huge MK. It would make it kind of interesting especially if they start matching them against each other.

Scott & I talked about this before and I agree with this idea!! Or if it made things less complicated give them kyujo half and half. half for the first 7 days and half for the 2nd week that way there are less torikumi complications!

[Peterao 3]

Apparently, Otake-oyakata has submitted retirement papers today. However, they were (intentionally, I presume) not processed ahead of the special riji meeting taking place right now.

My guess is that he will not be allowed to retire ahead of being expelled.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

To follow up on Peterao's last post...

http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/28_18.html

[kame 0]

I say make all those implicated kyujo for the first seven days. They all show up starting on nakabi and have to win all their bouts to get a KK or do extremely well to avoid a huge MK. It would make it kind of interesting especially if they start matching them against each other.

Scott & I talked about this before and I agree with this idea!! Or if it made things less complicated give them kyujo half and half. half for the first 7 days and half for the 2nd week that way there are less torikumi complications!

This looks like an idea, on paper. In real life it'd be brutal: pitting fresh, strong rikishi against others already beaten up from a week of bouts? :-(

[Asashosakari 20,309]

I believe that any Western PR firm would recommend that the NSK immediately cancel the Nagoya basho, to give people the pound of flesh they will need to believe that the Kyokai is serious about fixing the problem.

Because cancelling seasons worked out so well for the NHL and MLB, obviously... Ozumo needs to work to keep its good parts in the spotlight while all this is going on; cancelling the basho means ceding the newscycle to the scandal indefinitely. Bad idea, IMHO.

Edit: More specifically, in my opinion there are no "good" solutions here, just that not going ahead with the basho is a particularly bad one.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Doitsuyama 1,263]

Wakakouyuu (surprise!!)

My only surprise is that no one elaborated in this thread that this probably is not on him personally but because he happens to be from Onomatsu-beya...

[Asashosakari 20,309]

My only surprise is that no one elaborated in this thread that this probably is not on him personally but because he happens to be from Onomatsu-beya...

I don't know about that. All of Onomatsu-beya is currently under house arrest, but I haven't read anything that they're collectively suspended as well, so my assumption is that he and Daido did gamble.

[Kintamayama 47,400]

Wakakouyuu (surprise!!)

My only surprise is that no one elaborated in this thread that this probably is not on him personally but because he happens to be from Onomatsu-beya...

No, he's been named as a gambler.

[Manekineko 200]

When I look at the list of likely suspendees (I hope Mickey and Otake will be the only ones whose heads will roll), there are so many rikishi whom I like... So, just to express my frustration:

Toyonoshima (Pulling hair...)

Miyabiyama (Wearing a paperbag...)

Toyohibiki (Hit the wall...)

Goeido (Struck by lightning...)

Yoshikaze (Being ill...)

Not to forget the oyakata - Sadogatake (Weeping...) and Kasugano (Feeling guilty...)

And yes, not to mention that this basically leaves only Kaio, Aminishiki, Kisenosato and Tochiozan as Japanese who can conceivably challenge top foreigners. Ugh.

[Kintamayama 47,400]

Yoshikaze (Struck by lightning...)

Currently on hold pending further investigation.

[Kotoviki 16]

I say make all those implicated kyujo for the first seven days. They all show up starting on nakabi and have to win all their bouts to get a KK or do extremely well to avoid a huge MK. It would make it kind of interesting especially if they start matching them against each other.

Scott & I talked about this before and I agree with this idea!! Or if it made things less complicated give them kyujo half and half. half for the first 7 days and half for the 2nd week that way there are less torikumi complications!

This looks like an idea, on paper. In real life it'd be brutal: pitting fresh, strong rikishi against others already beaten up from a week of bouts? (Struck by lightning...)

Yes, that is true! Though I like his idea that they all have to fight each other first!!!

[Jonosuke 28]

Yoshikaze (Struck by lightning...)

Currently on hold pending further investigation.

Apparently he only bet three times during the world baseball Classic tournament and he has been considered to be "non-habitual", I don't think Oguruma is out either so ha may be spared.

[nonews 0]

IMHO it is a mistake to cancel the television of the matchs. it's not going to accomplish anything except to tick off the normal viewers. doing so punishes nobody but us. I could care less that wrestlerss bet on baseball games. they didn't bet on sumo so what differance does it make. if NHK cancels the broadcast I really hope the sumo association sues them for billions of yen. and wins. maybe sumo needs to get their own network like the NFL has. sumo is the only thing on NHK worth watching. all the other shows they have are garbage. the only time I wtch NHK is when sumo is on.

canceling the broadcast isn't jus foolish it is STUPID. what a bunch of idiots NHK has managing them. sheesh.

[Kintamayama 47,400]

IMHO it is a mistake to cancel the television of the matchs. it's not going to accomplish anything except to tick off the normal viewers. doing so punishes nobody but us. I could care less that wrestlerss bet on baseball games. they didn't bet on sumo so what differance does it make. if NHK cancels the broadcast I really hope the sumo association sues them for billions of yen. and wins. maybe sumo needs to get their own network like the NFL has. sumo is the only thing on NHK worth watching. all the other shows they have are garbage. the only time I wtch NHK is when sumo is on.

canceling the broadcast isn't jus foolish it is STUPID. what a bunch of idiots NHK has managing them. sheesh.

Actually, they held a poll and 61% were in favor of canceling the broadcasts. Surprisingly, in the over 65 category, which is considered die-hard fan territory, it went even higher to 65%.

[Peterao 3]

IMHO it is a mistake to cancel the television of the matchs. it's not going to accomplish anything except to tick off the normal viewers. doing so punishes nobody but us. I could care less that wrestlerss bet on baseball games. they didn't bet on sumo so what differance does it make. if NHK cancels the broadcast I really hope the sumo association sues them for billions of yen. and wins. maybe sumo needs to get their own network like the NFL has. sumo is the only thing on NHK worth watching. all the other shows they have are garbage. the only time I wtch NHK is when sumo is on.

canceling the broadcast isn't jus foolish it is STUPID. what a bunch of idiots NHK has managing them. sheesh.

Actually, they held a poll and 61% were in favor of canceling the broadcasts. Surprisingly, in the over 65 category, which is considered die-hard fan territory, it went even higher to 65%.

It's even worse than that, as only about 10% of the respondants actually came out in support of holding the basho. I am not sure whether the remaining 20-30% of respondants had no opinion one way or the other, or whether they were counting all feedback to NHK, and the remaining feedback was regarding non-sumo issues.

I do know that, for the first time ever, I registered my own comment to the NHK, against broadcasting the Nagoya Basho (regardless of how STUPID that idea may be to some) Since I am forced to pay NHK over 10,000 yen a year, I might as well use what little influence I have to ever so slightly nudge the NSK and Ozumo into the 21st century.

UPDATE: Yomiuri Shinbun is now reporting the "cancel broadcast" opinions are now over 70%.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Peterao

[Takamizawa 0]

I fail to see in any way how cancelling the NHK coverage will benefit anyone; they will still have to pay the NSK for the rights, no? The only group it affects are fans who want to watch on TV, and if so many fans don't want to watch, well they can just turn their TVs off! Don't punish those of us who still want to enjoy some sumo over July.

[Asashosakari 20,309]

It's even worse than that, as only about 10% of the respondants actually came out in support of holding the basho.

Not in that Mainichi poll (collected June 27/28); it's 61% against and 33% for.

Edit: To clarify - this poll was about whether the basho should be held at all, not whether it should be broadcast.

Edit #2: Oh, I see the recent feedback to NHK consists of all of 300 or so people. I can't say I find it terribly interesting that a self-selected group of people who actually felt compelled to contact NHK are 70% against broadcasting the basho at the crest of the hysteria wave. If the NSK had practiced "governance by phone feedback", Asashoryu would have been thrown out back around 2004, among other interesting developments. Looks like the feedback numbers ever since this thing started are up to 5,600 (I wonder how many people contacted NHK multiple times?), with 60% against broadcasting.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Pippooshu 1]

Names of the guys out of Nagoya, now semi-official:

Makuuchi:

Kotomitsuki

Toyonoshima

Miyabiyama

Toyohibiki

Goueidou

Okinoumi

Yoshikaze

Wakakouyuu (surprise!!)

Juryo:

Chiyohakuhou

Daidou

Kasuganishiki

Kiyoseumi

Futenou

Makushita:

Furuichi

Koubou

Tokoyama:

Tokoike

Linesmen:

The guy from the Germany -England match

The guy from the Argentina-Mexico match

(Help me...)

I'm sorry...but in the black list isn't there Kakizoe also???

[nomadwolf 8]

I fail to see in any way how cancelling the NHK coverage will benefit anyone; they will still have to pay the NSK for the rights, no? The only group it affects are fans who want to watch on TV, and if so many fans don't want to watch, well they can just turn their TVs off! Don't punish those of us who still want to enjoy some sumo over July.

Whether they pay for the rights depends on the contract obviously. However, they may have standing to not pay for the basho. If it's voluntary, maybe not, but at this point you will be getting to the nitty gritty of their agreement (and whatever other pressure they might be able to apply).

[Kintamayama 47,400]

I'm sorry...but in the black list isn't there Kakizoe also???

No, he is clean.

[Kotoviki 16]

It's even worse than that, as only about 10% of the respondants actually came out in support of holding the basho.

Not in that Mainichi poll (collected June 27/28); it's 61% against and 33% for.

Edit: To clarify - this poll was about whether the basho should be held at all, not whether it should be broadcast.

Edit #2: Oh, I see the recent feedback to NHK consists of all of 300 or so people. I can't say I find it terribly interesting that a self-selected group of people who actually felt compelled to contact NHK are 70% against broadcasting the basho at the crest of the hysteria wave. If the NSK had practiced "governance by phone feedback", Asashoryu would have been thrown out back around 2004, among other interesting developments. Looks like the feedback numbers ever since this thing started are up to 5,600 (I wonder how many people contacted NHK multiple times?), with 60% against broadcasting.

I would say generally the ones who contacted them who voted, are probably repeats. The people with nothing else to do but complain! It would be interesting if every NHK customer HAD to respond...

[Asashosakari 20,309]

I would say generally the ones who contacted them who voted, are probably repeats. The people with nothing else to do but complain! It would be interesting if every NHK customer HAD to respond...

I dare say if a representative sample was polled and they were asked "If the basho is happening, do you feel it should be broadcast?", the percentage of those who don't care either way would rise from ~30% to well over 50% - same as for any other program on TV, affected by scandal or not. Those numbers NHK is releasing are so skewed as to be completely useless, IMO. Just news noise.