Have admitted publicly to baseball gambling

[Jonosuke 28]

I fail to see in any way how cancelling the NHK coverage will benefit anyone; they will still have to pay the NSK for the rights, no? The only group it affects are fans who want to watch on TV, and if so many fans don't want to watch, well they can just turn their TVs off! Don't punish those of us who still want to enjoy some sumo over July.

The Kyokai got a blessing from the Ministry of Education and Science today to hold the Nagoya Basho provided that they don't keep getting into one mess after another.

Since the ministry gave them a go-ahead, NHK could broadcast Ozumo but I suspect it may not be business as usual, they may cut down or may not have a regular coverage. Ever since the new Minshu-to guys came into power, all "public" organizations are under severe pressure to cut down their costs and NHK is no exception. It does not look good on NHKto show events from rather tarnished organization in good light and appear to spend so much money promoting and covering it.

Look, unlike most of us here think, Ozumo is not that popular attraction. The Yomiuri will stop publishing Ozumo magazine after Aki Basho and who knows how long NHK will keep publishing their sumo magazine. Sumo doesn't make top pages on sport dailies during basho and the only time they ever get into news these days is when they commit another breach of public trust.

The Kyokai will be forced to take drastic actions one way or another - one is how they are structured with heya oyakata having all the power and controlling rikishi and their daily life. It has been proven now that they are doing awfully bad job at it.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Jonosuke

[Takamizawa 0]

The Kyokai got a blessing from the Ministry of Education and Science today to hold the Nagoya Basho provided that they don't keep getting into one mess after another.

Since the ministry gave them a go-ahead, NHK could broadcast Ozumo but I suspect it may not be business as usual, they may cut down or may not have a regular coverage. Ever since the new Minshu-to guys came into power, all "public" organizations are under severe pressure to cut down their costs and NHK is no exception. It does not look good on NHKto show events from rather tarnished organization in good light and appear to spend so much money promoting and covering it.

Look, unlike most of us here think, Ozumo is not that popular attraction. The Yomiuri will stop publishing Ozumo magazine after Aki Basho and who knows how long NHK will keep publishing their sumo magazine. Sumo doesn't make top pages on sport dailies during basho and the only time they ever get into news these days is when they commit another breach of public trust.

The Kyokai will be forced to take drastic actions one way or another - one is how they are structured with heya oyakata having all the power and controlling rikishi and their daily life. It has been proven now that they are doing awfully bad job at it.

Ya, you're right, I didn't really look at it from the NHK's point of view. For them it makes sense to at the very least consider the possibility of cancelling/reducing coverage. If they don't want the association to a scandal-ridden sport which is lacking in popularity, that is there prerogative, as much as it may piss me off.

I was directing my comments at those non-affiliated folks in support of canelling coverage, as I can't really understand why any of them would wish it. For us as fans, I just don't see how it's good, so why promote the idea? I mean honestly, what sort of fan wants to see less coverage of the sport they love in action? For me it doesn't compute.

[Peterao 3]

I was directing my comments at those non-affiliated folks in support of canelling coverage, as I can't really understand why any of them would wish it. For us as fans, I just don't see how it's good, so why promote the idea? I mean honestly, what sort of fan wants to see less coverage of the sport they love in action? For me it doesn't compute.

I want to be proud of sumo. I want to be proud to be a fan of sumo.

One of my fondest memories was five years ago, when I took my young daughter to a day at Natsu Basho. We spent hours down near ringside watching so many matches (and getting seen by her grandmother on BS1!), and I had fun spending time with her and answering her questions.

Now I know that those seats have been occupied by yakuza. Those connections to the yakuza are strengthed by the numerous illegal gambling ties within the rikishi, oyakata, and all layers of sumo. And my daughter is now old enough to start asking me lots of new questions, the type that make me sad to answer.

This was the last, best chance we had to fix such a broken infrastructure. They should have shut down shop until they could give a full explanation for all that has happened, how they will assure that it never happens again, and how they will make their organization as transparent as possible so that we can see this for ourselves. Instead, we get the basho going on as scheduled in exchange for measures that will punish a few people and do nothing to fix Ozumo. And almost immediately those measures are compromised, as the punished (technically "to be punished") are not staying in Tokyo reflecting on their misdeeds, but are in Nagoya with everyone else. The oyakata about to conduct business as usual as best they can, the rikishi all donning mawashi and doing keiko as though nothing has happened. Denial, double talk, and business as usual. They register their problems as an irritation to be ignored, not as a desperate SOS.

The last chance we have to convince them that change is needed is for NHK to grow a set and throw these bums off of television. I'm more than willing to give up two months of matches in exchange for the small possibility that pride in sumo may one day be restored.

[Takamizawa 0]

I want to be proud of sumo. I want to be proud to be a fan of sumo.

I appreciate you elaborating on this for me. Obviously I feel very differently towards the situation, but you've helped me to understand where all those voting against coverage are coming from a bit (I've always had problems with empathy..). Thanks :-P

[Asashosakari 20,309]

I want to be proud of sumo. I want to be proud to be a fan of sumo.

So you'd prefer sumo to be pure and insignificant instead of well-known and incrementally improving over what it is currently?

Break it down, and it's unlikely to be coming back in any shape resembling what it is like now. Honestly, it wouldn't affect me all that much - I don't really have a high emotional investment in my Ozumo fandom and I'm not particularly wedded to traditions in any case, and if Ozumo ends up changing too much for my liking I'll be disappointed for a bit but then just find a different interest (heck, perhaps even amasumo), but people who (apparently) desperately want Ozumo to go back to being more like what they once fell in love with - well, be careful what you wish for.

The last chance we have to convince them that change is needed is for NHK to grow a set and throw these bums off of television.

If you asked a bunch of different people, I'm sure you'd find out that the "last chance to save Ozumo" passed unused at various points in the last 80 years. It's still here.

[Jonosuke 28]

I doubt any grandfather wants to take his granddaughter to any place where yakuza members are hanging around - despite the fact they have not violated any laws by just being there.

Obviously not just yourself but many Japanese feel uncomfortable sitting close to them. Most public establishments will ask politely to those people who may be identified (by public like wearing elaborate tattoos and yakuza like clothes) to leave their premise as the public just feel uncomfortable around them rightly or wrongly even if they are not yakuza members but only perceived to be and Ozumo is no exception. The Kyokai now has extra police to make sure their exit goes peacefully whenever they find them in the arena..

One thing is sure though Aiko-sama and her parents are not coming back to see Ozumo any time soon.......

Edited June 30, 2010 by Jonosuke

[Peterao 3]

I doubt any grandfather wants to take his granddaughter to any place where yakuza members are hanging around - despite the fact they have not violated any laws by just being there.

Just to clarify, I'm not a grandfather yet, nor will I ever be one anytime soon. :-P

[Jonosuke 28]

I doubt any grandfather wants to take his granddaughter to any place where yakuza members are hanging around - despite the fact they have not violated any laws by just being there.

Just to clarify, I'm not a grandfather yet, nor will I ever be one anytime soon. (Sign of approval...)

:-P Further going off-topic.

But to clarify even further, you, Kinta, Kawika and I have been at this for such a long time, we should be ready for a Kyokai pension.....we even know Yamato's dohyo debut....

[Peterao 3]

I doubt any grandfather wants to take his granddaughter to any place where yakuza members are hanging around - despite the fact they have not violated any laws by just being there.

Just to clarify, I'm not a grandfather yet, nor will I ever be one anytime soon. (Neener, neener...)

(You are going off-topic...) Further going off-topic.

But to clarify even further, you, Kinta, Kawika and I have been at this for such a long time, we should be ready for a Kyokai pension.....we even know Yamato's dohyo debut....

I remember living in Hawaii, and watching a local TV show sending out well wishes to all FOUR Hawaiian rikishi in the upcoming Makunouchi basho. Then the Hawaiian ban took affect, and in a matter of years they were all gone, never to return.

Getting back on topic, there are news reports out of Mongolia that people there think that the recent Kyokai troubles are "the curse of Asashoryu", but I know better. This is the curse of the Hawaiians. They are just so laid back that it took a little while to kick in.

[Asashosakari 20,309]

Not the "Hawaiian ban" urban legend again...will that never die? There was a six-year period with no new foreign deshi whatsoever, preceded by heavy recruiting from Taiwan, Brazil and finally the Oshima Mongolian six-pack, in addition to the steady recruiting from Hawaii and the rest of the US, the latter apparently being the only thing anyone from the United States has ever heard about. (You are going off-topic...) Talk about US-centric nonsense that annoys me a lot more than calling football "soccer".

Edited June 30, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Peterao 3]

Play with semantics all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that there are zero Hawaiians in sumo now.

[Asashosakari 20,309]

Play with semantics all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that there are zero Hawaiians in sumo now.

At the risk of being flippant: Too bad, so sad. There are also no Taiwanese or Tongans in sumo now, and both once featured in significant numbers. Life moves on.

Maybe NHK can help us address this problem somehow.

Edit: To expand on that point - Nobody in Japan is waiting for more rikishi from any particular foreign country, they're all filled up with as many as they want, and then some. Nonetheless that hasn't stopped groups and individuals from countries such as Mongolia, Brazil and Bulgaria to put in the hard work to get their most talented youngsters into Ozumo. Meanwhile, the American fanbase sits on its collective ass and is content to keep whining about how nobody from the Kyokai is scouting their country for new talent anymore. Well, duh. The last two Americans who went over did so with no support structure whatsoever (and only one actually made his sumo debut). Work on that and maybe you'll have the pleasure of rooting for an American kid again sometime.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 47,400]

The kyokai will decide in its meeting on Friday whether to make names of small sum baseball gamblers public as well, together with card sharks and mahjong freaks. The Education Ministry is pushing for this, "in order not to cause speculation and rumors and to isolate the rikishi from the anti-social forces", as they put it.

[ilovesumo 12]

The kyokai will decide in its meeting on Friday whether to make names of small sum baseball gamblers public as well, together with card sharks and mahjong freaks.

Would that do any good? Enough mess already...

I hope they don't...

[Asashosakari 20,309]

The kyokai will decide in its meeting on Friday whether to make names of small sum baseball gamblers public as well, together with card sharks and mahjong freaks.

Would that do any good? Enough mess already...

I hope they don't...

I think they should, if only to ensure that those who are truly deemed clean can be recognized (by not being on any lists). There are a lot more clean rikishi than "tainted" ones, after all. And I'm not convinced yet that the small-time guys will completely evade punishment, it just won't be a suspension.

I'm pretty happy they didn't simply end up treating private card games etc. as equivalent to illegal betting. Still, I think the Kyokai needs to drive home the point that card games are (at least technically) unacceptable as well, and that probably requires a bit of public shaming of those who have been busted now.

At any rate, given that the special committee handed out questionaires to all 1,000+ Kyokai members (due date: Saturday), there's still a chance we'll be getting some more revelations over the weekend.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Asashosakari

[ilovesumo 12]

Yes, I am also happy the NHK isn't treating private games and illegal gambling as equivalents, but those scandal-seekers from the outside kinda do mix em up I fear.... There wouldn't have been so many scandals, if there weren't people profiting from exposure...

I think in the current mood, while Sumo "stinks" for many reasons (past scandals, old fashioned lifestyle etc.), each name mentioned means harm to the particular Rikishi/ Oyakata - if he just played cards for a few yen or so, he should be protected from the "mob running wild". Nobody will remember "Oh, XY wasn't mentioned, so he must be clean." The ones mentioned will be remembered, no matter how deep they had been in the mud.

In a way, the "few heads rolling for all the others", seems to be a good idea........

As long as it is only real responsible people's. Onomatsu did nothing wrong, so he must be protected and if the NHK doesn't manage to do that, they suffer a giant loss.

[Harry 67]

Seems I picked a good time to cancel TVJapan (NHK mostly) last month right on senshuuraku... with the usual diet interruptions and the excitement of another Hakuho zensho yusho I wasn't that excited about paying $20/month for it anymore.

Here the gang related exclusions are kind of funny. Wearing a Hell's Angels jacket is a bit obvious but friends of mine wearing Harley Davidson attire have been asked to remove it or leave, told that it was for gang reasons. An Italian friend of mine really does have an "uncle Quido" who has a "travel agency" and there is a strip club where you don't want to go for lunch unless you want to see an old fashioned hit go down but most of it is pretty low key.

[shimodahito 336]

good day all,

i was away for about a week, away from internet and news... and when i return, the big dohyo is upside down. so sad. please let there be no aomori rikishi on the list! ties to the mob are unacceptable and the hammer should fall. but the card game thing is a bit confusing in a country where pachinko and betting on soccer matches is legal.

is there any new date on a banzuke release?

anyway, the main point of this post is to thank all of you for offering a one-stop source for up-to-date news on this fiasco. and your commentary and opinions are also appreciated. i'm amazed at the connections and resources available to members of this forum. makes me wonder if any japanese forums are as in-depth and dedicated to sumo topics --- both good and bad.

again thanks.

-shimodahito

i guess a vegas jungyo is out of the question... i was hoping to attend.

[kawika 123]

Not the "Hawaiian ban" urban legend again...will that never die? There was a six-year period with no new foreign deshi whatsoever, preceded by heavy recruiting from Taiwan, Brazil and finally the Oshima Mongolian six-pack, in addition to the steady recruiting from Hawaii and the rest of the US, the latter apparently being the only thing anyone from the United States has ever heard about. (Censored...) Talk about US-centric nonsense that annoys me a lot more than calling football "soccer".

1. I happen to like soccer, great sport.

2. Konishiki as Sanoyama Okayata rubbed NSK's nose in crap as much as he could, trying to shake things up, but he didn't have any support, unlike say today's Takanohana Oyakata, so although there was no written ban, and perhaps there was no recriuting globally, it still seems very strange that no Hawaiian as been recruited since, and I would be willing to believe they certainly don't want to recruit another Konishiki, who was a curse and blessing all in one. I think the first Mongolian six-pack was recruited while Hawaiians were still in sumo in big numbers, perhaps as many as 13 boys. Today. Zero. Weird.

[Peterao 3]

Look, unlike most of us here think, Ozumo is not that popular attraction. The Yomiuri will stop publishing Ozumo magazine after Aki Basho and who knows how long NHK will keep publishing their sumo magazine.

It was just announced that NHK has cancelled the publication of their magazine for the Nagoya Basho.

http://www.nhk-sc.or.jp/sumo/

[ilovesumo 12]

So it's 2 of the big 3 magazins now....let's hope at least the last one can go on...

[Peterao 3]

Breaking news from NHK webcast...committee re-review turned up no new baseball gamblers.

[Peterao 3]

And, the non-baseball gambler names are coming out. Biggest named card gambler: Hakuho. But no punishment will be handed out.

Edited July 2, 2010 by Peterao

[Peterao 3]

And I guess that's the only other name coming out, as they decided not to publish the names of those who weren't punished. Also Yoshikaze and his shisho will not be punished.

[Kintamayama 47,400]

And, the non-baseball gambler names are coming out. Biggest named card gambler: Hakuho. But no punishment will be handed out.

He has admitted to playing cards once for tens of thousands of yen, but has fallen into the category of "not a heavy gambler and it's cards in any case", so he will not be subject to any punishment.