first reactions to Asa's suspension

[yamaneko 2]

no way! Dang, i wish kotooshu was healthy, this would be his chance at yokozuna. Well, hakuho, here are your first 2 yusho as yokozuna!

[Kaioshoryu 68]

Wow... I din't think that the penalty would be that severe! I hope Asa won't decide to turn his back on sumo now.

[Jakusotsu 6,402]

Dang, i wish kotooshu was healthy, this would be his chance at yokozuna.

:-( Sometimes I wonder about Your priorities...

Let me chime in with the others: the severity of the penalty knocked me off my knees and came as a total surprise. I'd have expected a monetary fee only, especially after the Mongolian government's apology. But the public obviously called for blood. This turns the next two basho more or less into a charade. :-P

[madorosumaru 7]

I am saddened but not surprised by the severity of the punishment. Since I am an ardent Asashoryu fan, I kept a close eye on the developments of the past week. With each passing day, I could detect the onslaught of resentment that many oyakata held against the yokozuna. As Nishi pointed out, these feelings have accumulated over many years and festered just beneath the surface as nothing could be done against a solo yokozuna who was carrying ozumo through a down period.

With the promotion of Hakuho to yokozuna and Mickey to ozeki, Ryu's position was weakened and he was finally vulnerable. That's why it was such a dunderhead move that he made to skip out of the jungyo with a dubious excuse and return to Mongolia without his shisho's knowledge. Whether he was physically capable of playing few minutes of soccer is totally immaterial. His enemies caught him with his hand in the cookie jar. The honor and integrity of the yokozuna was on the line. The headlines screamed "Faked Injury!" all week. That was the issue. There was even a precedent of a Japanese yokozuna who was forced to retire for a similar offense.

Actually, Ryu is fortunate to be only suspended and fined. He has made plenty of money and he can still make a lot more. There were some very loud voices within the Kyokai that wanted him kicked out. Fortunately, ozumo still needs a strong yokozuna. But, as they told Roho last year, there will be no next time. Ryu will have to accept the reality that the climate has changed. The type of "rebellious" and "self-centered" behavior he had exhibited before will no longer be tolerated.

Aki Basho and Kyushu Basho will not be much fun for me. I am only hoping to see a "new, improved" Ryu in January.

[Peterao 3]

Dang, i wish kotooshu was healthy, this would be his chance at yokozuna.

:-( Sometimes I wonder about Your priorities...

:-P Exactly what should his priorities be? Is there something wrong with hoping for Kotooshu to get promoted?

Most all the complaints I've heard on the punishment have been from foreigners, who are not considering what is proper in Japanese society, and do not realize how serious an insult the Japanese consider his conduct to be. I believe that the same thing would have happened whether it had been Kotooshu, Kotomitsuki, Takamisakari, or any other rikishi thought to be weaseling their way out of a jungyo tour. Asashoryu should really consider himself thankful to be given a second chance at all.

[nirumaruyama 0]

I haven't seen this mentioned in any other post so I thought I would syick it up (apologies if I'm double topicking!).

It would seem that Asashoryu has only one option left to retain a yokozuna's hinkaku and that is to retire. The kyokai has banned him for the next two basho and fined him 30% of his salary for the next 4 months. Together with the other oyakata's comments about never wanting him on a jungyo again and the general reaction by the press and media it really seems like a witch hunt to drive him out of the sport.

The thread that is on this forum already has gone into detail about the yokozuna attending/not attending jungyos but I think a lot of the oyakata comments are over the top concerning not needing him at a jungyo again. It could be a case of blowing off steam about Asashoryu in general.

If Asashoryu is as bad as he s being made out to be and dislikes Japan, sumo, the kyokai etc as much as we're lread to believe then it would seem like quite an easy choice for Asashoryu - quit.

[madorosumaru 7]

Yahoo Japan is holding a poll regarding the punishment for Asashoryu. It will run for one week from Aug. 1 to Aug. 7. So far, the results are:

Total: 63,427 votes

Too lax: 41,940 . . . . . . . . . . . . 67%

Appropriate: 14,663 . . . . . . . . . 24%

Too severe: 4,338 . . . . . . . . . . . 7%

No punishment needed: 2,486 . . 4%

An overwhelming percentage of voters believe the punishment was appropriate or too lax.

* Percentages are rounded up so total will not equal 100%.

[Jakusotsu 6,402]

Is there something wrong with hoping for Kotooshu to get promoted?

Not per se, but in this context? I'd say yes.

[Asashosakari 20,290]

Is there something wrong with hoping for Kotooshu to get promoted?

Not per se, but in this context? I'd say yes.

I agree. Not everything that happens in sumo is simply a canvas for plotting the continued advancement of foreigners, or it least it shouldn't be. Having one of one's first thoughts be "how can Asashoryu's suspension help other foreigners reach higher ranks?" smacks of a severe case of tunnel vision, if nothing else.

[obinishiki 0]

edit

quote:Not per se, but in this context? I'd say yes.

Asa clinched the promotion while half of the upper ranks were crippled, but that doesn't mean he didn't deserve the tsuna. But if it's ok to compete and succeed while others are unlucky, it should be more than adequate to make it to yokozuna while one of the other one's incapable of doin the rank justice.

BTW i don't think Osh will make it, altough i root for him.

Edited August 1, 2007 by obinishiki

[ilovesumo 12]

On the plus side, he should be well healed for Hatsu, and really pissed off.

That for sure. I hope very much he can cool down somehow and won't ran into other trouble cause of his anger.

Gaman shite kudasai...

I just finished Nitobe's "Bushido". It says that living on (so not retiring) in the hardest circumstances shows if there is real pride and dignity.

The easy way out can't be a choice. A Yokozuna can't run away. That would really make him look like a fool. Sticks and stones may break his bones but he HAS to go on.

Edited August 1, 2007 by ilovesumo

[Kintamayama 47,364]

Gone for two days, and again-<<<BOOOING>>, something huge happens.

A. I 'm not surprised. I was sure he was going to be fired.

B. Reading the thread, it amazes me that there are some posters who still don't get the point. It's not that he played soccer, it's that he played hooky. If he would have shown the NSK his doctor's diagnosis and volunteered to join the jungyo in some capacity while receiving treatment (and not say he was going kyujo), and THEN played soccer, I'm pretty sure some Oyakatas may have been pissed, but the result would not have been this.

It's really quite simple. I don't really thing it's just a Japanese culture thing, although sumo has its peculiarities as a sport. Any NBA, NFL or MLB player on the DL who was seen playing a friendly game of another sport would have been reprimanded and fined for sure, even if there are no jungyos in these sports.

C. There is more here than meets the eye. Something else happened which is kept from the public, something that made the NSK decide on a two basho suspension. Just like Shoes' retirement turned out to be because of what was then considered " a wild speculation", I have a nagging feeling we don't know have the whole picture yet. Give it a few days-it will leak.

D. The "xenophobia" angle, towed mostly by our Mongolian members, is so out there that it is really out there. It always seems like he has to be a "man" or prove his "manlihoodnessgemaine". Total bullocks and a very sad deep misinterpretation of things.

[Guest Mulan]

Gone for two days, and again-<<<BOOOING>>, something huge happens.

A. I 'm not surprised. I was sure he was going to be fired.

B. Reading the thread, it amazes me that there are some posters who still don't get the point. It's not that he played soccer, it's that he played hooky. If he would have shown the NSK his doctor's diagnosis and volunteered to join the jungyo in some capacity while receiving treatment (and not say he was going kyujo), and THEN played soccer, I'm pretty sure some Oyakatas may have been pissed, but the result would not have been this.

It's really quite simple. I don't really thing it's just a Japanese culture thing, although sumo has its peculiarities as a sport. Any NBA, NFL or MLB player on the DL who was seen playing a friendly game of another sport would have been reprimanded and fined for sure, even if there are no jungyos in these sports.

C. There is more here than meets the eye. Something else happened which is kept from the public, something that made the NSK decide on a two basho suspension. Just like Shoes' retirement turned out to be because of what was then considered " a wild speculation", I have a nagging feeling we don't know have the whole picture yet. Give it a few days-it will leak.

D. The "xenophobia" angle, towed mostly by our Mongolian members, is so out there that it is really out there. It always seems like he has to be a "man" or prove his "manlihoodnessgemaine". Total bullocks and a very sad deep misinterpretation of things.

You are right. It's Japanese culture thing and it's difficult to understand for non-Japanese people. Asa is Mongolian not Japanese and although he is living in Japan for 10 years his Mongolian nature didn't change. Actually I think he is so successul because he still has his Mongolian spirit. I think that the punishment is too severe and by suspending him for two basho kokkai just want him to loose the good shape by being under "home arrest" till the end of November. I can imagine how happy are all other rikishi. Guess who will be the winner next two basho? Is this the way to promote Hakuho? :-S

I always thought that sumo is a very honest sport if you know what I mean but seems like that it is just like all the others.

[Ruziklao 34]

... I think that the punishment is too severe and by suspending him for two basho kokkai just want him to loose the good shape by being under "home arrest" till the end of November. ...

I have always thought that Kokkai can make great things, but this is going even further than I ever imagined... (Sigh...)

(Sorry, I could not resist, I know you have meant Kyokai... :-S)

[Petr 0]

I know this is not the point but anyway. I saw the video of Asa playing footbal. He looked realy genki and seemed to be enjoying himself. He seemed to be good at it and even showed some acrobatic tricks.

[Kaioshoryu 68]

What's with all these conspiracy theories? Asa is an employee of the Kyokai, he broke the rules, he gets punished. This is also what happens in the company I work for, if I have called in sick and then have been caught playing football I would have been reprimanded. Such is life. Deal with it. Perhaps the punishment was too harsh, but in my opinion the punishment would have been just as severe had Asa been japanese.

[Kaioshoryu 68]

I know this is not the point but anyway. I saw the video of Asa playing footbal. He looked realy genki and seemed to be enjoying himself. He seemed to be good at it and even showed some acrobatic tricks.

He was wearing a Wayne Rooney t-shirt too. If that's who his role model in soccer is, it's no wonder he's in trouble.

:-S (Sigh...)

Too true....

[Erkhembulgan 0]

IMO it's a good timepoint for Dagvaa to quit sumo. He has done enough (good and bad)...

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

IMO it's a good timepoint for Dagvaa to quit sumo. He has done enough (good and bad)...

well, maybe it is better he should come back once and beat them all then quit :)

[Kaikitsune Makoto 210]

Opinions:

Why this punishment is good:

1. Gives an opportunity to see how Shoryu acts during gloomy era? Will he beat people up? Will he explode? Will he show his true colours or are the colours shown already?

2. Gives Shoryu time to rest and heal and to build up the wrath of sumoU for Hatsu 2008

3. Puts Hakuho on the spot which is good as he is not good yokozuna yet and needs to prove himself.

4. Sumo was on the news in Norway

Why this punishment is bad:

1. Mongolian members bring up complexes and theories which are not on healthy basis

2. Many other foreign members bring up complexes and theories which are not on healthy basis

3. No Kisenosato vs Shoryu bouts this year :-S

4. Suspending him for the rest of the year is not good for Aki nor Kyushu basho. Competitively it is not good at all that yokozuna is missing like that rolling thumbs, vacuuming roids, frowning in confinement like a teenage girl on house arrest (roids excluded)

[Zentoryu 154]

A. I 'm not surprised. I was sure he was going to be fired.

I agree with you. I was thinking they were going to shame him into retiring, ala Maedayama. The precedent was there, so it wouldn't have shocked me.

[Shomishuu 0]

C. There is more here than meets the eye. Something else happened which is kept from the public, something that made the NSK decide on a two basho suspension. Just like Shoes' retirement turned out to be because of what was then considered " a wild speculation", I have a nagging feeling we don't know have the whole picture yet. Give it a few days-it will leak.

Just curious, Kinta - but if we're not surprised at the outcome, then there wouldn't need to be anything else, would there? Then, I would never look past your nagging feelings, so I'll be on a steak-out to find the 'real yokozuna-killer.' In the meantime, I'll go with the simple 'had it up to here' theory: Rijicho's been keeping a lot of mad-as-hell oyakata at bay for a long time and had to do something big to keep peace in the family.

Maybe too simple to be the whole story, but a big part of it, I'll bet.

[Blue_Wolf 24]

NOT FAIR! (Tears forming...)

[Kintamayama 47,364]

Just curious, Kinta - but if we're not surprised at the outcome, then there wouldn't need to be anything else, would there? Then, I would never look past your nagging feelings, so I'll be on a steak-out to find the 'real yokozuna-killer.' In the meantime, I'll go with the simple 'had it up to here' theory: Rijicho's been keeping a lot of mad-as-hell oyakata at bay for a long time and had to do something big to keep peace in the family.

Maybe too simple to be the whole story, but a big part of it, I'll bet.

The outcome is very surprising. If it isn't outright firing, I don't see the need for a 2 basho suspension. One should have been enough to send a strong message. They didn't even use the "think about retiring' clause they always threaten to use..

I still think there's more.

[Asashosakari 20,290]

The outcome is very surprising. If it isn't outright firing, I don't see the need for a 2 basho suspension. One should have been enough to send a strong message. They didn't even use the "think about retiring' clause they always threaten to use..

I still think there's more.

Maybe saving 12 million yen on Asashoryu's salaries and bonuses gets them closer to their 2007 profit target.

(I'm kidding. And I also think Kinta is wrong here...I'll go with the "fed up and not willing to take it anymore" explanation.)

Edited August 28, 2007 by Manekineko
thread splitting, clarity issue