Asa in hot water-thread 2

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Asashoryu has already failed on both accounts. Right or wrong doesn't matter. He'll have a whale of a time being accepted now.

If right or worng does not matter, apology also does not matter, does it?

Also I doubt Asashoryu would aim to be accepted. All he wants is leave him alone, he just want to wrestle the SUMO

Well, Akebono (oops, I mean :-O ) had troubles being accepted after "a not officially sanctioned marriage" and troubles getting along with his oyakata, and this resulted in the loss of koenkai support & money. The slippery slope lead to resigning from the NHK, bankrupty, an embarrassing K-1 stint, and now...

Granted, he wasn't of Asashoryu's calibre physically or technically, but the bigger they come...

As to which of the gruesome twosome is more bat-sh*t crazy, I'll leave it to the masses to decide.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Otokonoyama

[Shomishuu 0]

An explanation won't cut it. The generalization of the Japanese being trained and educated to remove or disguise their personal feeling in their profession/public personna may explain why they are able to perform apologies on cue and be forgiven. Like it or not, these apologies should be prompt and follow the prescribed pattern. Asashoryu has already failed on both accounts. Right or wrong doesn't matter.

Or put more bluntly, Asashoryu - unlike every other successful foreign rikishi - refuses to Nipponize himself. This is the challenge every foreign rikishi faces. Those that can't or won't go back home. But Asashoryu simply ignored the challenge and stayed anyway, because his sumo was just too good.

Many people - not only rikishi - find themselves in situations where they must go beyond the efforts of their counterparts in order to succeed. Maybe it's because they're female, or less talented, or blind, or uglier, or whatever. That's life. Life is not fair, but most successful people just suck it up and do whatever it is they have to do.

But Asashoryu made his own rules and just refused to be Nipponized; and for various reasons, the NSK allowed him - and him alone - to ignore this challenge that all other foreign rikishi were forced to accept. Soon, he came to be driven by a force that was his, and his alone, one which gave him immense gratification that he could shove the NSK culture back into their faces, and there was nothing they could do about it. Call it a controlled rage, or whatever you like, it was something that he alone could bring to the table when he stepped onto the dohyo.

Kokonoe oyakata himself referred to it after Asashoryu delivered a late knee to the ribs of Kisenosato on nakabi on this year

Edited September 5, 2007 by Shomishuu

[Kintamayama 47,301]

"I know I owe an explanation to the fans and the Kyokai, but why did I get into this situation..", he wondered.

Thanks Moti.

Nice to "hear" something from him himself. The last sentence made my eyes wide...

I would take all this with a grain of salt - so much misinformation and outright speculation has come out of Mongolia that I wouldn't be surprised that this whole conversation never happened..

[Asashosakari 20,273]

Or put more bluntly, Asashoryu - unlike every other successful foreign rikishi - refuses to Nipponize himself.

I don't think that's even the problem, at least not to the extent that I think you're intending. It's not really necessary to assimilate all that much; all it takes is the minimum level of successful integration (not just in Japan, but anywhere) which is learning exactly which lines cannot be crossed under any circumstances without upsetting the apple cart. Obviously, he failed even at that, and while it may be more difficult in Japan than elsewhere, he's still had more than a decade to learn it and as Nishinoshima et al. have said, that was certainly long enough if he had made a good-faith effort.

That special force which drove him with such vehemence before will be gone because he knows that one more misstep and he's gone. Psychologically, it won't be the same for him because without that unbridled privilege to do anything he pleases, he will be spiritually empty on the dohyo. It doesn't matter a whit if he suffers from a real mental illness or not. The bottom line is that there was a mental failing of some kind, regardless of what you call it. His opponents won't fear him anymore because they know full well that when the going got tough for him he threw in the towel. For these reasons, his career in ozumo is doomed, whether he tries to come back or not.

I've been thinking about that, too. His opponents had already started to catch up with him a bit - just look at guys like Miyabiyama or Tokitenku actually managing to get him to the dohyo edge, which nearly never happened two years ago but has been a fairly common sight of late. He's been winning with superior technique and quick reactions, not the out and out dominance he used to be known for. If he comes back and has lost this single-minded focus of his, I could well imagine him turning into a mediocre 11-12 win yokozuna. I don't think he'd stick around long if that happened, even though he'd still make plenty of money (90m yen or so per year even without any yusho).

All [Asashoryu] wants is leave him alone, he just want to wrestle the SUMO

That, I dare say, are two entirely incompatible goals. Well, I suppose he could switch to the amateur circuit.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 47,301]

A lot of speculation concerning Asa's next move. It is being widely reported in Mongolia and subsequently in Japan that he intends to change the venue for his physical recuperation from Khujirt to somewhere far away, about 300 kilometers southwest from Dreamland, Shargaljuut(??). Takasago Oyakata, who hasn't heard from Asa in years, has denied it. "I have not heard about this. With all the Japanese reporters camped out outside his door, he is not going anywhere. In any case, the mental treatment comes first, before going to any onsen". Asked about when he intends to send a manager to Mongolia as promised, he answered "Soon. Viza? Everyone going there needs a viza no?", he said, rather angrily.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 47,301]

start exercising with these thick guys

I think they may come after you after reading this. You should apologize immediately, with or without tears..

[Asashosakari 20,273]

Takasago Oyakata, who hasn't heard from Asa in years, has denied it. "I have not heard about this. With all the Japanese reporters camped out outside his door, he is not going anywhere."

That Humvee would come in handy now.

[Guest haroda]

I think dagvador is really asashoryu trying to justify what he did.

nobody can be as ignorant as this dag guy shows. oh wait, asashoryu-mongolian-dagvador? I take that back. maybe they can be. probably he is.

if he can't do what he is suppossed to do living and working in Japan then byby. go away and pull your shenanigans at the home you can't live without. we don't want you. we want real sumo not the type that asashoryu tries to sumo when he is just doing his cruelty on others. when is the last time he didn't hurt somebody? or give his screw you people sneer to the tv camera?

[ilovesumo 12]

Many people - not only rikishi - find themselves in situations where they must go beyond the efforts of their counterparts in order to succeed. Maybe it's because they're female, or less talented, or blind, or uglier, or whatever. That's life. Life is not fair, but most successful people just suck it up and do whatever it is they have to do.

this row of words sounds pretty funny...as if it is meant to be the same level of horror...the same to be female or ugly or less talented....yeah, all the same....

:-O

[kaiguma 0]

Many people - not only rikishi - find themselves in situations where they must go beyond the efforts of their counterparts in order to succeed. Maybe it's because they're female, or less talented, or blind, or uglier, or whatever. That's life. Life is not fair, but most successful people just suck it up and do whatever it is they have to do.

this row of words sounds pretty funny...as if it is meant to be the same level of horror...the same to be female or ugly or less talented....yeah, all the same....

:-O

I thought the same thing when I read it, but I'm sure he is speaking historically. Like about the first female doctors or scientists in Western culture, who were ridiculed for a long time before the fruits of their labor finally paid off.

Their struggle was certainly as rough as the struggle of a blind man trying to be accepted as an equal in the business world before the days of civil rights and handicapped accessibility laws on a near-global scale.

[Fay 1,677]

Many people - not only rikishi - find themselves in situations where they must go beyond the efforts of their counterparts in order to succeed. Maybe it's because they're female, or less talented, or blind, or uglier, or whatever. That's life. Life is not fair, but most successful people just suck it up and do whatever it is they have to do.

this row of words sounds pretty funny...as if it is meant to be the same level of horror...the same to be female or ugly or less talented....yeah, all the same....

:-|

Just imagine you're a less talented ugly blind female ... :-)

Sorry a bit :-O

Edited September 5, 2007 by Fay

[Arslan 0]

Ikh MD is right. Asashoryu's disdain for the NSK culture is ingrained and he won't change because he's not capable of it. He may go through the motions of an apology but it will grate on him until it's unbearable and wreak havoc with his focus. That special force which drove him with such vehemence before will be gone because he knows that one more misstep and he's gone. Psychologically, it won't be the same for him because without that unbridled privilege to do anything he pleases, he will be spiritually empty on the dohyo. It doesn't matter a whit if he suffers from a real mental illness or not. The bottom line is that there was a mental failing of some kind, regardless of what you call it. His opponents won't fear him anymore because they know full well that when the going got tough for him he threw in the towel. For these reasons, his career in ozumo is doomed, whether he tries to come back or not.

Lets not guess just wait and see. It's also too early to say that his opponents won't fear him. If his sumo will be as goos as it used to be (I hope it will) I think nothing will change.

[Shomishuu 0]

Many people - not only rikishi - find themselves in situations where they must go beyond the efforts of their counterparts in order to succeed. Maybe it's because they're female, or less talented, or blind, or uglier, or whatever. That's life. Life is not fair, but most successful people just suck it up and do whatever it is they have to do.

this row of words sounds pretty funny...as if it is meant to be the same level of horror...the same to be female or ugly or less talented....yeah, all the same....

:-|

I thought the same thing when I read it, but I'm sure he is speaking historically.

Yeah, that's right. There's no intent to compare the levels of disadvantage people in any of those groupings have. I could have included the handicapped, less educated or experienced, deaf, bald, color blind, tone deaf, ex-inmates, no sense of smell,etc. etc. Anyone who starts a new endeavor with one strike against them, depending on what they're trying to do.

[Jonosuke 28]

A lot of speculation concerning Asa's next move. It is being widely reported in Mongolia and subsequently in Japan that he intends to change the venue for his physical recuperation from Khujirt to somewhere far away, about 300 kilometers southwest from Dreamland, Shargaljuut(??).

Shargaljuut Hotspring area sounds like a very interesting place to visit located in Bayankhongor aimag, bordering China.

Apparently there are over 100 different types of hotsprings there. According to one Japaese report, there is one hotspring where there are human bone shaped white matters floating in the water. The resort owner says if you eat a bone shaped for the area ailing, you will be cured. So if Asashoryu gets there and eat an elbow and back "bones", then he should be OK by the Hatsu basho for sure.

Obviously reporters waiting for Asashoryu outside his Dreamland must be running out of stories to file. One guy asked the owner of spa resort about any investment in the area. He told him Asashoryu was trying to buy a hotspring resort next to his earlier this year. It was going for around US$300,000 but apparently the buildings were over 30 or 40 years old and Asashoryu had a second thought.

The owner said he was willing to sell his to Asashoryu with a proper price. He figures his place is worth around US$500,000 to $600,000 but for Asashoryu, he will hand it over to him if he comes up with US$1 million.

He obviously knows Asashoryu through his ASA Group company is buying up a lot of tourism related companies in Mongolia and Asashoryu has deep pockets having well connected financial backers in Japan through Ozumo.

And this is what many suspect as the prime reason Asashoryu cannot afford to quit Ozumo now. He needs to keep pumping more money in to his Mongolian business ventures and to do so, he needs those supporters he cultivated through his Ozumo career. As yokozuna he has prestige and is considered to be a Mongolian hero. He will not have the same image if he turns to professional wrestling like his brother.

[Coo-cook 0]

A lot of speculation concerning Asa's next move. It is being widely reported in Mongolia and subsequently in Japan that he intends to change the venue for his physical recuperation from Khujirt to somewhere far away, about 300 kilometers southwest from Dreamland, Shargaljuut(??).

Shargaljuut Hotspring area sounds like a very interesting place to visit located in Bayankhongor aimag, bordering China.

Apparently there are over 100 different types of hotsprings there. According to one Japaese report, there is one hotspring where there are human bone shaped white matters floating in the water. The resort owner says if you eat a bone shaped for the area ailing, you will be cured. So if Asashoryu gets there and eat an elbow and back "bones", then he should be OK by the Hatsu basho for sure.

Obviously reporters waiting for Asashoryu outside his Dreamland must be running out of stories to file. One guy asked the owner of spa resort about any investment in the area. He told him Asashoryu was trying to buy a hotspring resort next to his earlier this year. It was going for around US$300,000 but apparently the buildings were over 30 or 40 years old and Asashoryu had a second thought.

The owner said he was willing to sell his to Asashoryu with a proper price. He figures his place is worth around US$500,000 to $600,000 but for Asashoryu, he will hand it over to him if he comes up with US$1 million.

He obviously knows Asashoryu through his ASA Group company is buying up a lot of tourism related companies in Mongolia and Asashoryu has deep pockets having well connected financial backers in Japan through Ozumo.

And this is what many suspect as the prime reason Asashoryu cannot afford to quit Ozumo now. He needs to keep pumping more money in to his Mongolian business ventures and to do so, he needs those supporters he cultivated through his Ozumo career. As yokozuna he has prestige and is considered to be a Mongolian hero. He will not have the same image if he turns to professional wrestling like his brother.

Jonosuke-san,

Many times I hear he is a Mongolian hero and so on.

But, Asa was your yokozuna and your hero and your product, remember that.

I think his love for sumo was real.He thought he has done something for sumo, quite opposite what the Japanese sumo world think of him.

Now he is out of his illusion and never be a Japanese yokozuna again. I think he is done.

He says he wants come back.But, since he can't be with his heart and soul there, Kyokai should let him retire.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Coo-cook

[obinishiki 0]

He says he wants come back.But, since he can't be with his heart and soul there, Kyokai should let him retire.

He can retire whenever he wants to. But then again he'd have to pay an enormous price for his precious pride so I don't

see it happen.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

onosuke-san,

Many times I hear he is a Mongolian hero and so on.

But, Asa was your yokozuna and your hero and your product, remember that.

I think his love for sumo was real.He thought he has done something for sumo, quite opposite what the Japanese sumo world think of him.

Now he is out of his illusion and never be a Japanese yokozuna again. I think he is done.

He says he wants come back.But, since he can't be with his heart and soul there, Kyokai should let him retire.

Coo-Cook you are very right here. This incident was very useful for getting rid of anyy illusion.

[Sasanishiki 57]

For someone supposedly with Dissociative Identity Disorder, Asashoryu certainly seems to be doing a lot of eloquent talking...

Asashoryu did not say he has DID. Other diagnosed him like. You better say your word to those OTHERS

I realise this. I have said all along that he was sulking. I have also said in this thread that I question the doctors and the diagnosis that was given. By making my statement I am saying that these doctors selected a convenient diagnosis that serves Asashoryu and his desire to get treatment in Mongolia. It is a sad statement on either the impartiality or ability of certain doctors.

[Jonosuke 28]

Many times I hear he is a Mongolian hero and so on.

But, Asa was your yokozuna and your hero and your product, remember that.

I think his love for sumo was real.He thought he has done something for sumo, quite opposite what the Japanese sumo world think of him.

Now he is out of his illusion and never be a Japanese yokozuna again. I think he is done.

He says he wants come back.But, since he can't be with his heart and soul there, Kyokai should let him retire.

First, your second paragraph.

I don't believe this way at all. You are underestimating the drive that propelled him to the ultimate position in the sport it was totally foreign to him initially. Did he lose his heart and soul just because he got penalized for two basho and salary reduction? I doubt it very much.

I have followed his career from the time he joined Ozumo after leaving Meitoku Gijuku High. Contrary to a popular perception he is really sensitive to the public opinion. It's been said often he always worried about his public image. To hide the sensibility he behaved in such a way to show he is one rough and tough customer. More than anything else this incident showed how deeply hurt he was inside.

We may have forgotten he just won the yusho despite suffering from a rather painful elbow injury (but I am not sure about his lower back). He was still heads and shoulders above everyone else. He showed his own brand of resiliency from the early stage of the basho. He showed unsurpassed intensity when everything counted.

As a smaller rikishi with no prisoner taken style of sumo, his body has accumulated all the tears and wears from the past abuses but did he lose it all? Hardly. Takanohana had a crippling injury but he came back, working out all alone. Asashoryu is still young, he only needs a time to reflect and rejuvinate his body and soul. He has that time. When he sees others competing, he will regain the drive again. Even for personal reasons alone, he still has something to prove to all the others.

And the first paragraph.

I also have no doubt he loves sumo as much as anyone in Ozumo. He is not only a Mongolian hero but many Japanese recruits joined Ozumo seeing him. I have read a comment after comment of new recruits who stated more than anyone else, Asashoryu was their aspiration.

For me the greatest contribution he brought to Ozumo was his quickness and sure execution of his moves. Prior to Asashoryu's arrival, all rikishi thought they needed more size. Even Takanohana gained his weight to 160 kg while for him 145 kg would have been ideal and likely prevented the fatal knee injury. The consensus was to counter the huge Hawaiians, they needed to have the size.

Asashoryu reversed the trend for better. Instead of slow and deliberate sumo, Asashoryu brought speed and dynamism to Ozumo. The bouts became more exciting and fun to watch. And he gave a renewed opportunity to all recruits who lacked the size. The average weight of rikishi started to decrease and more rikishi did not need to risk debilitating illness and injury by trying to gain more weight.

When we only read certain media reports, we get an impression that the whole Japan is against Asashoryu. Not so. The fact remains Asashoryu can still count on rather large number of influential and wealthy friends. From such sports figures as Olmpic hammer thrower Alexander Koji Murofuji, Judo legend Yasuhiro Yamashita, boxing's Kameda brothers, well known TV personalities Monta Mine and best selling author of astrology books Kazuko Hosoki as well as former Japanese Finance Minister. If Asashoryu can only show his true self, his sensitive side to show occasionally then the public's perception will change. And if only he can get himself to apologize for causing all this uproars then it will give everyone a reason to embrace him. We all love humble people. Asashoryu has a soft, kind and charming side. He needs to just show it more.

Just like he did at the Las Vegas when I was sitting only a meter away from him. While Chiyotaikai and Tochiazuma couldn't get out of the place fast enough when the day ended, Asashoryu stayed behind and played the greatest ambassador Ozumo could have. Answering every reporter's often silly questions with smile and thanking eveyone for their hard work and taking the time to be there. He sounded sincere and his sincerety showed through.

Or when he stayed behind to help out the old Sadogatake oyakata putting his shoes on as the oyakata just had a surgery to amputate his foot. They were both at a party for all past and present yokozuna at a banquet hall. As this was Japan, the guests all took their shoes off to put them on a shelf when they first arrived. The old oyakata had a rather difficult time putting his shoes on and his helpers did not arrive yet. Out of all yokozuna present, the only one who got down on his knees to put the shoes on for the oyakata was Asashoryu. Then Asashoryu held the oyakata's arm and walked with him to a waiting taxi. The old Sadogatake oyakata later said he would never forget the kindness shown to him by Asashoryu and added that it was truly shame that Japan no longer had a young man like Asashoryu.

There are still plenty of people in Japan cheering for him and I have no doubt he will not disappoint them.

[Kintamayama 47,301]

Short quiz: Come rain or shine, summer or winter, what always happens to Asashouryuu before a basho? Hmmm... Right!! He catches a cold!! It is being reported that he caught a cold and that is the reason for the postponement of his treatment at the onsen facility. "He has been down with a cold for a few days now.. The treatment postponement is not solely because of the Japanese media camped out outside said facility..", said sources close to the Yokozuna.

As for Asa himself, he is still holed up in Dreamland and has yet to be seen publicly since he arrived there.

[Kaioshoryu 68]

Or when he stayed behind to help out the old Sadogatake oyakata putting his shoes on as the oyakata just had a surgery to amputate his foot. They were both at a party for all past and present yokozuna at a banquet hall. As this was Japan, the guests all took their shoes off to put them on a shelf when they first arrived. The old oyakata had a rather difficult time putting his shoes on and his helpers did not arrive yet. Out of all yokozuna present, the only one who got down on his knees to put the shoes on for the oyakata was Asashoryu. Then Asashoryu held the oyakata's arm and walked with him to a waiting taxi. The old Sadogatake oyakata later said he would never forget the kindness shown to him by Asashoryu and added that it was truly shame that Japan no longer had a young man like Asashoryu.

There are still plenty of people in Japan cheering for him and I have no doubt he will not disappoint them.

This paragraph almost put a tear in my eye... If only we could see this Asashoryu more often.

[Kintamayama 47,301]

Another photo of the Khujirt onsen place, still waiting for Asa to make an appearance:

[Jonosuke 28]

Chances are Asashoryu is going to a hotspring spa in Shargaljuut Hotspring next week.

A report says he and his group booked the whole facility of a resort from September 10. So likely this weekend the group will be heading towards the spa as that's quite a long way out.

Since they left the airport in Ulaanbaator with a Hummer, I am sure they still have it and even if a bunch of reporters were waiting outside Dreamland, they can drive past them very quickly without being seen.

I am not sure how good GPS in that part of Mongolia is, I'd think it will take much longer for reporters to catch up to them.

Some papers are stirring up this possible move as saying Asashoryu is breaking the terms of condition as he is switching a treatment facility on his own. But this is nonsense. He is in Mongolia to receive a treatment and be seen by a psychiatrist arranged by the Kyokai. There is no clause saying he has to go to a specific spa to receive the treatment.

Besides if he had his preference, he'd rather have gone to the nearest hotspring but some people are making it impossible. Not just for Asashoryu but for R&R of any kind, we should be all allowed to have it in a tranquil environment, removed from all likely stress and noises.

[Kintamayama 47,301]

we should be all allowed to have it in a tranquil environment, removed from all likely stress and noises.

Can I come too??

[Jonosuke 28]

we should be all allowed to have it in a tranquil environment, removed from all likely stress and noises.

Can I come too??

Yes please set up a training dohyo right away at Caesarea as I am sure you can manage the security for Asashoryu to arrive in a few days. You will recognize him as a big dude riding on a camel.