Kintamayama 44,422 Posted July 15, 2006 (edited) You don't have to be a Brazilian lip-reader to read Taikai's lips, although you do have to be able to understand basic Japanese. "DAIJOUBUKA??" Are you OK? As for his "angry" face, this is Taikai's usual ugly mug. Now, maybe OY can read Rohou's lips and see what he answered. A certain member of the Forum can read Chiyotaikai's lips beyond a shadow of a doubt. Let's wait for his verdict.. But then, someone will bring up the TONE in which it was said etc.. etc.. Listen to Dale's movies commentator (BTW, who was that today?). He says it all. Edited July 15, 2006 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,422 Posted July 15, 2006 What an honor! But, by what authority are you bestowing this honor upon me? Do you have some special title I'm not aware of? Ex-Bench Sumo Ozeki should have you on your knees. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilovesumo 12 Posted July 15, 2006 (edited) Oh, come on Don't make a mountain out of a molehill. Some provocative words from Chiyotaikai (that's what I believe), a bad reaction of Roho ... and that's it. We all say and do things which are stupid, although you shouldn't misbehave in Germany, Japan, Ossetia and elsewhere. No provocative words from Chiyotaikai-He asked him if he was OK. Where are the lip-readers? I see no "daiyoubu?"... Maybe "Nani o?" ? Edited July 15, 2006 by ilovesumo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,422 Posted July 15, 2006 Where are the lip-readers? I see no "daiyoubu?"... Check again-it was "Daijoubu-ka?". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shibouyama 1 Posted July 15, 2006 What an honor! But, by what authority are you bestowing this honor upon me? Do you have some special title I'm not aware of? Ex-Bench Sumo Ozeki should have you on your knees. Sorry. That doesn't quite do it for me. But, I appreciate your attempt to lower the confrontational tone of your posts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fay 1,677 Posted July 15, 2006 ;-) I take them both and we go out for a beer (A yokozuna...) And then we talk about the good old times of sumo, ok I have no clue because I'm a stupid european but Taikai will tell us all the stories ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shibouyama 1 Posted July 15, 2006 Where are the lip-readers? I see no "daiyoubu?"... Check again-it was "Daijoubu-ka?". Check again and again until you agree with Kintamayama. Apparently, there is no room for disagreement on this issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilovesumo 12 Posted July 15, 2006 I give up here, sorry... I shouldn't say anything with my gloryglory 59% in the 日本語の文法試験 from monday (A yokozuna...) Roho did shit- everybody can see. Taikai didn't. ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,817 Posted July 15, 2006 Even if Taikai was confronting Roho in his best "Are You talking to me??" Taxi Driver manner, Roho should know better by now and humbly bow his head to his senpai. One day, when he's an Ozeki himself, he might condescend some lowly Maegashira, but until then he has to swallow and be silent. Has he learned nothing from that YDC Soken incident last year? I just hope Taiho-san didn't have another stroke seeing this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,422 Posted July 15, 2006 (edited) Check again and again until you agree with Kintamayama.Apparently, there is no room for disagreement on this issue. Why? Do you disagree with me? You know Japanese- isn't he saying "Daijoubuka?" If not, what IS he saying? I'd like to hear at least another version from someone. And you are right-there is no room for disagreement on this issue, and with anything I say, of course, Brigadier! Edited July 15, 2006 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,422 Posted July 15, 2006 Even if Taikai was confronting Roho in his best "Are You talking to me??" Taxi Driver manner, Roho should know better by now and humbly bow his head to his senpai. One day, when he's an Ozeki himself, he might condescend some lowly Maegashira, but until then he has to swallow and be silent. Has he learned nothing from that YDC Soken incident last year?I just hope Taiho-san didn't have another stroke seeing this. Damn. Why can't I say it as well as you??? Shibouyama??? Are you reading this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,422 Posted July 15, 2006 What an honor! But, by what authority are you bestowing this honor upon me? Do you have some special title I'm not aware of? Ex-Bench Sumo Ozeki should have you on your knees. Sorry. That doesn't quite do it for me. But, I appreciate your attempt to lower the confrontational tone of your posts. This is not a confrontational tone. This is me making a point, and you disagreeing. It's not personal. And now, if you can start helping me with the translations of online Japanese articles, even the forum can get something out of this.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fujisan 530 Posted July 15, 2006 As someone who's a bit of a hothead himself and to be honest a sore loser aswell I can understand how in the heat of the moment Roho may have been a little upset about his loss and the last thing he wants is the guy who beat him asking if hes okay however un-sumo like it is but the stuff that went on afterward with the reporters and the glass thats just not on is it. ;-) (A yokozuna...) :-( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,422 Posted July 15, 2006 As someone who's a bit of a hothead himself and to be honest a sore loser aswell I can understand how in the heat of the moment Roho may have been a little upset about his loss and the last thing he wants is the guy who beat him asking if hes okay however un-sumo like it is but the stuff that went on afterward with the reporters and the glass thats just not on is it. ;-) (A yokozuna...) :-( Actually, the stuff that went on afterwards I can understand. but around and on the dohyo? I am very disappointed with you, Fujisan! I thought you knew more about Sumoudou! Tsk, tsk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shibouyama 1 Posted July 15, 2006 (edited) Sorry, for my delay. I was out walking the dog. You may all refer to me as The Brigadier from now on. I can speak and understand Japanese well enough. I haven't even tried to lip read Chiyotaikai, because his expression was enough for me. He clearly looks like he is trash talking. I'm not the president of the Roho fan club or anything. He clearly is an ill-mannered brute. That is beside the point. It looks to me (from Dale's video) like Chiyotaikai started it. I did say they both behaved badly. I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here. I take issue with Kintamayama's self proclaimed 'Expert On All Things Sumo And Guardian Of All Things Good In Sumo' stance. Your rhetoric is amped up a bit high for my taste. Since when is Chiyotaikai beyond doubt? Edited July 15, 2006 by Shibouyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,322 Posted July 15, 2006 I wonder if Roho will show up tomorrow..... My memory is very hazy, but didn't Asashoryu retire injured after a much more minor (but still serious, if you get my drift) altercation with Shuzan? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonosuke 28 Posted July 15, 2006 From a point of view of the real sumo-doh, once the bout is over, both should conduct themselves gracefully and show compassion towards to each other. Roho's behavior to the media and others in the dressing room is not excusable nor his lack of bow on the dohyo which should have been immediately corrected by one of the dohyo judges at the time. But having said that, if we are to accuse Roho (and other non-Japanese rikishis) of Ozumo's deteriorating manners, you are barking at the wrong tree. The blame should go squarely to the oyakata and others who are coaching them at the heya. The Kyokai mandates all the recruites to go through a learner's clinic when they first join Ozumo. So why aren't they emphasizing more manners then? We neither cannot excuse Chiyotaikai either. He is an ozeki and has been there longer than any. He should be a model to every one of the rikishis. Instead of getting himself involved in a turmoil like this, he should be a leader and conduct himself beyond reproach. He may want a respect accorded to his rank but that respect should also be earned. In my view he should be as ashamed of his behavior as much as Roho. Both will get some kind of reprimand and hopefully others will learn from this, but the answer is not about individual rikishis but a more consistent direction from the Kyokai to all the rikishis on decorum and manners as well as observing time honored customs and traditions regardelss of their background. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fay 1,677 Posted July 15, 2006 From a point of view of the real sumo-doh, once the bout is over, both should conduct themselves gracefully and show compassion towards to each other.Roho's behavior to the media and others in the dressing room is not excusable nor his lack of bow on the dohyo which should have been immediately corrected by one of the dohyo judges at the time. But having said that, if we are to accuse Roho (and other non-Japanese rikishis) of Ozumo's deteriorating manners, you are barking at the wrong tree. The blame should go squarely to the oyakata and others who are coaching them at the heya. The Kyokai mandates all the recruites to go through a learner's clinic when they first join Ozumo. So why aren't they emphasizing more manners then? We neither cannot excuse Chiyotaikai either. He is an ozeki and has been there longer than any. He should be a model to every one of the rikishis. Instead of getting himself involved in a turmoil like this, he should be a leader and conduct himself beyond reproach. He may want a respect accorded to his rank but that respect should also be earned. In my view he should be as ashamed of his behavior as much as Roho. Both will get some kind of reprimand and hopefully others will learn from this, but the answer is not about individual rikishis but a more consistent direction from the Kyokai to all the rikishis on decorum and manners as well as observing time honored customs and traditions regardelss of their background. The first reasonable statement I read in this matter ... (including mine of course ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shibouyama 1 Posted July 15, 2006 From the other thread on this topic: I think it was Adachinoryuu who posted it. From 2 Japanese who saw this separately - one sat alongside yours truly. Taikai said 'nanda omeh'?? Buggered if I know this spelling but perhaps 何だおめー To which Roho simply replied 何だ while still off the dohyo. I think there could be something in the inital harite Roho gave Choyotaikai - fingernail? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Buckton 1 Posted July 15, 2006 (edited) Check again and again until you agree with Kintamayama. Apparently, there is no room for disagreement on this issue. Why? Do you disagree with me? You know Japanese- isn't he saying "Daijoubuka?" If not, what IS he saying? I'd like to hear at least another version from someone. And you are right-there is no room for disagreement on this issue, and with anything I say, of course, Brigadier! Just posted this elsewhere but what the hell - From 2 Japanese who saw this separately - one sat alongside yours truly. Taikai said 'nanda omeh'?? Buggered if I know this spelling but perhaps 何だおめー To which Roho simply replied 何だ while still off the dohyo. I think there could be something in the inital harite Roho gave Choyotaikai - fingernail? Addition to last posting of this - both individuals are native speakers, one knows nothing of sumo and didn't even know Roho's name. What happened afterwards is unacceptable but the phrase / words they both came up with only agreed with my own initial image of his mouth's moving and I am not a native speaker of course. Time to chill everyone. Edited July 15, 2006 by Adachinoryu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilovesumo 12 Posted July 15, 2006 Jonosuke, Adachinoryu ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,422 Posted July 15, 2006 From a point of view of the real sumo-doh, once the bout is over, both should conduct themselves gracefully and show compassion towards to each other.Roho's behavior to the media and others in the dressing room is not excusable nor his lack of bow on the dohyo which should have been immediately corrected by one of the dohyo judges at the time. But having said that, if we are to accuse Roho (and other non-Japanese rikishis) of Ozumo's deteriorating manners, you are barking at the wrong tree. The blame should go squarely to the oyakata and others who are coaching them at the heya. The Kyokai mandates all the recruites to go through a learner's clinic when they first join Ozumo. So why aren't they emphasizing more manners then? If that was the case, we'd be seeing all Odake beya rikishi barking when losing, which isn't the case. We'd be seeing many occurences of this behavior, for that matter, from many other heyas, which isn't the case. It's mostly Rohou, Hakurozan and Kokkai. You'll never see a Japanese rikishi do that. We neither cannot excuse Chiyotaikai either. He is an ozeki and has been there longer than any. He should be a model to every one of the rikishis. Instead of getting himself involved in a turmoil like this, he should be a leader and conduct himself beyond reproach. He may want a respect accorded to his rank but that respect should also be earned. In my view he should be as ashamed of his behavior as much as Roho. I disagree vehemently. If Rohou would have clammed up and known his station, none of this would have happened. Both will get some kind of reprimand and hopefully others will learn from this, but the answer is not about individual rikishis but a more consistent direction from the Kyokai to all the rikishis on decorum and manners as well as observing time honored customs and traditions regardelss of their background. It won't help, since the same problem will undoubtedly return, and the culprit will undoubtedly be a foreigner. AFAIK, they have recently conducted special seminars for all rikishi concerning ettiquette and correct behaviour on the dohyo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,422 Posted July 15, 2006 Sorry, for my delay. I was out walking the dog.You may all refer to me as The Brigadier from now on. I can speak and understand Japanese well enough. I haven't even tried to lip read Chiyotaikai, because his expression was enough for me. He clearly looks like he is trash talking. I'm not the president of the Roho fan club or anything. He clearly is an ill-mannered brute. That is beside the point. It looks to me (from Dale's video) like Chiyotaikai started it. I did say they both behaved badly. I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here. I take issue with Kintamayama's self proclaimed 'Expert On All Things Sumo And Guardian Of All Things Good In Sumo' stance. Your rhetoric is amped up a bit high for my taste. Since when is Chiyotaikai beyond doubt? I am pretty known around these parts for not being a Taikai fan, to say the least... Notwithstanding, Rohou was out of line from A to Z. As for "Expert On All Things Sumo And Guardian Of All Things Good In Sumo", I shall take that as a heavy compliment and continue to gambarize in order to be worthy of this title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,422 Posted July 15, 2006 (edited) Picture taken moments before the photographer was attacked by Rohou; "I don't remember what I answered him, but it was not good", said Rohou after calming down. Rijichou: "Rohou's punishment? I just issued him a warning, and that's it!!" Edited July 15, 2006 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites