Natsu 2025 discussion (results)

[lackmaker 446]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Right size for a yokozuna: height like Chiyonofuji and weight like Harumafuji

Not ideal size. You need to be an exceptional talent to make it work.

[Chiyozakura 157]

Kotozakura seems to have developed the worst tachi-ai among the top rikishi. I all of his fights I have seen this basho he has been in a bad position after the start.

[Jakusotsu 6,188]

8 minutes ago, Chiyozakura said:

Kotozakura seems to have developed the worst tachi-ai among the top rikishi. In all of his fights I have seen this basho he has been in a bad position after the start.

Must be hereditary.

[Akinomaki 41,186]

Terunofuji today was at the talk event in the sumo museum - and then on NHK as main guest commentator - the other (at the mukou-shoumen NHK seat) was Tatsunami.

o o

He lost 20kg since retirement and talked about instructing the rikishi at the heya - the article calls it the standard route that he'll succeed as Isegehama when the present reaches retirement age before next basho. Atamifuji is the most problematic one to instruct: "He seems to have understood, but hasn't. I don't know (how to teach him), he's somehow doing sumo."

[RabidJohn 1,944]

Ok, I'm going to throw my hat into the Aonishiki appreciation ring, too.
He's certainly headed joi-ward, but I've been around too long now to look too far ahead.
I am keenly interested to watch how a capable young student with access to Ajigawa-san's Archives of Wiliness fares in the meatgrinder.

---

NHK looking back at Wajima's promotion is possibly premature, but I get it. I don't know about a zensho, but some things just feel unjinxably fated to happen.

[Leoben 159]

I think Aonishiki's smallness is overstated. He's listed as 182 cm and 138 kg at age 21. He's not tall, but he has a broad frame with a lot of muscle for his size, and he's young so he will probably continue to put on weight and build more muscle as he matures. Hakuoho is actually 1 centimeter shorter than him while being nearly 160kg, and he's got that prized refrigerator/brick outhouse build that is great for outputting power. 

[dingo 1,388]

6 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Atamifuji is the most problematic one to instruct: "He seems to have understood, but hasn't. I don't know (how to teach him), he's somehow doing sumo."

Very interesting! In other words Atamifuji is "winging it". That kind of explains some things about his sumo. 

[dingo 1,388]

As a short summary, after a few surprises things are starting to stabilise into the usual path. The Y/O are winning and on the way to kachikoshi and more. The sanyaku are holding their own well with the exception of poor Takayasu who's having one of these basho and can forget about any ozeki return aspirations. To be honest it wasn't that realistic anyway with his health issues and age. The joi are getting cleaned up, only a few more resistant ones and repeat sanyaku customers like Abi, Hiradoumi and Oho seem to stand a chance of kachikoshi. The rest of the maegashira is a merry mix of wins and losses, with only Hakuoho and perhaps Aonishiki trying to get a say in the yusho run. Though I believe it is far too early to count Aonishiki as a pretender. Maybe in a year. 

So there we have it, normality in the top division! In a way, a surprise in itself. No makujiri yusho for sure this basho. 

[Koorifuu 1,079]

Did the gyoji forget Mita's name or something? I could swear he just growled ああああああ.

[Jakusotsu 6,188]

42 minutes ago, dingo said:

So there we have it, normality in the top division!

The fat lady hasn't even cleared her throat yet.

[dingo 1,388]

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

The fat lady hasn't even cleared her throat yet.

Absolutely, but my point is that right now it's as close to "normal" state of things as can be. Which in itself is not the normalcy of recent years. The sumo gods might have a different idea and throw another curve by the end of the basho -- Hakuoho yusho anyone?

[Tigerboy1966 1,539]

Oh dear, what can I say about Onosato vs Gonoyama. Gonoyama won the tachi-ai, straightened up the ozeki and then was hit by an invisible force-field which sent him back-pedalling over the bales.

I don't know, maybe someone can explain what Onosato did to win this one but it looked very fishy to me. I have a disconnect between what Onosato's results say and the content of the sumo I actually see.

[Sumo Spiffy 621]

37 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Oh dear, what can I say about Onosato vs Gonoyama. Gonoyama won the tachi-ai, straightened up the ozeki and then was hit by an invisible force-field which sent him back-pedalling over the bales.

I don't know, maybe someone can explain what Onosato did to win this one but it looked very fishy to me. I have a disconnect between what Onosato's results say and the content of the sumo I actually see.

What do you mean, "fishy"? Gonoyama running full blast into someone and then just not being able to move them any further isn't unusual. Having it happen against Onosato, the heaviest wrestler in the division, is even less surprising.

In this case, he moved Onosato back a step, couldn't go any further, then tried a pretty bad slapdown which sent his momentum in reverse. None of that is strange, especially since Onosato turned his stance and Gono's pushing position wound up being pretty bad.

Yes, he usually gets more of a push on guys before they stall his momentum, but other opponents being mostly quite a bit lighter helps. Besides, I'm sure some of them accept that they're gonna slide back and build that into their strategy. They do their best to ensure they'll be able to parry him off and get around him. Onosato probably could have done that, but he didn't need to. Gonoyama basically beat himself.

[Benihana 1,948]

The limit for Aonishiki will be his body. A healthy Aonishiki could be the 3rd part of a triumvirate with Hoshoryu and Onosato, eventually surpassing Hoshoryu. A not so healthy Aonishiki can still pull a career like his shisho.

 

EDIT: typo

Edited May 16 by Benihana

[Koorifuu 1,079]

Just now, Benihana said:

The limit for Aonishiki will be his body. A healthy Aonishiki could be the 3rd part of a triumvirate with Hoshoryu and Onosato, eventually surpassing Hoshoryu. A not so healthy Aonishiki can still pull a career like his shiso.

Surviving Shodai's oft-successful tawara shenanigans like that was very impressive. Great control of his body.

[Chartorenji 243]

Rooting for my boy Daieisho to at least get 11 or 12 wins. He is always the bridesmaid and never the bride, hope he can pull off an Ozeki promotion. 

[Tigerboy1966 1,539]

51 minutes ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

Gonoyama basically beat himself.

My point exactly.

[Reonito 1,613]

18 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

My point exactly.

He's going backwards trying to pull down Onosato by yanking on his left arm. This is unsuccessful, he runs out of room at the tawara, and his momentum takes him out. Nothing fishy, just iffy ring awareness. 

[Jakusotsu 6,188]

2 hours ago, dingo said:

Hakuoho yusho anyone?

How about Asakoryu?

[dingo 1,388]

38 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

How about Asakoryu?

I briefly thought about that before and then realised he would be fed to the sharks as soon as there's a hint of a yusho opportunity. I'm quite sure the result won't be pretty. Whereas I think Hakuoho actually could pull it off if others stumble. 

[Kotogouryuu 137]

45 minutes ago, Reonito said:

He's going backwards trying to pull down Onosato by yanking on his left arm. This is unsuccessful, he runs out of room at the tawara, and his momentum takes him out. Nothing fishy, just iffy ring awareness. 

I do feel I have to counterpoint this with Onosato's ability to stop at will. Surely that threw Gonoyama off, when his advance just stopped making progress. We've seen this in recent basho; Onosato is powerful, and it feels like his opponents haven't quite realized the extent of it just yet.

[junsan 201]

Nothing in Aonishiki shows he's the real deal at all. Takerufuji, Hakuoho and Kirishima, far far better caliber guys, started great and look at the plateauing now.

No one looks good enough to stop this Onosato shinkansen, and that's a shame.

Edited May 17 by junsan

[Asashosakari 19,943]

The last time the previous makuuchi yusho champion started off the tournament 6-0 was back in Aki / Kyushu 2021, when Terunofuji followed up on his 13-2 Y yokozuna debut with a zensho yusho.

[shantan123 14]

8 hours ago, junsan said:

Nothing in Aonishiki shows he's the real deal at all. Takerufuji, Hakuoho and Kirishima, far far better caliber guys, started great and look at the plateauing now.

No one looks good enough to stop this Onosato shinkansen, and that's a shame.

what makes you think those 3 are "far far better calibre guys"? I wont argue about them being better, but far far better? I disagree. Aonishiki is younger than all of them and has not hit a plateau not to mention Aonishiki has beat both Takerefuji and hakuoho and it was pretty easy for him. I can definitely understand disagreeing with his ceiling, but to say that there's absolutely nothing in Aonishiki that shows he's the real deal means you don't know what your seeing. Clearly he has much to improve but he also is the least experienced wrestler in the top division (and the youngest)

[I am the Yokozuna 204]

The tournament eerily resembles a Hakuho procession.  Once Onosato gets 8-0 it would be over, mainly mentally on his opponents.