Bench World Cup 2014

[Andonishiki 171]

well, I do understand your point...

but the match set-up was announced in this forum....

we had to take it for granted....

changing it after the first kick-off is very questionable....

I would like to call for a monoii.... Jejima, jakusotsu, achiyama, doitsuyama and asashosakari

we put up our teams in good faith of the contents of the forum...

clear conflict of rules (from a few weeks ago) vs latest posts on the forum here

you expect all semifinslists to check is the announced opponent is really the one that it should be?

in german, we call it Tatsachenentscheidung....

meaning... the gyoji makes a decision... and it stands..

you cannot change it afterwards.This is not the FIFA (thank god),

but still.... the forum is the trusted source of information.

can u really expect every contestant to look pack 15 pages ago to check, if the announced opponent of the next fight is in line with the rules ??

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Tried to get some sleep before the game but gave up...and saw this interesting discussion.

Andonishiki: I almost cried when I saw you omitted my name from the mono-ii...I must be a junior refioji then - fully agree with that, of course! :)

My two cents: Both sides have a point, of course, and rules are rules, but I tend to agree with Andonishiki...the match-ups were announced and should be stuck to, even if they were incorrect, as they did indeed have a tactical bearing on the matches. I see it a bit like the kyokai juggling the match-ups near the end of the basho to keep it exciting...rules can be bent slightly! All the players are valid, so does it really matter if everyone was given the wrong one in an innocent mistake?

Right...I'll go back to polishing boots.

[Fukurou 534]

I'm just the awards tracker, I don't have any player/ref interest in this. Still, I'm going to throw my outsider opinion into the mix.

As I understand it, Jejima announced the matchups, players set their lineups with those in mind, and submitted those lineups. Then it was noted that the matchups announced were not correct according to the rules, so Jejima changed the match-ups accordingly and announced the change. Unfortunately, by this time it was pretty much too late for many (most? all?) players to change their lineups if they desired.

If the players had had time (another 24 hours?) to adjust their lineups after the match-up change was announced, then I'd say to follow the rules. That wasn't the case here. IMO, the originally announced match-ups trump the later changes, even if the changes were to follow the rules. This is entirely due to the timing of the changes. Go with what the original match-ups were, as that's how the players, in good faith, set their line-ups.

As for the ref assignments, I don't know...

A question for Jejima - rules have been modified and created, seemingly on the fly, this entire tournament. Players have been following what's been announced by you, as the richijo, all along, whether or not the announcement has been in agreement with the posted rules. So other than "its a rule," why is it so important to stick to the matchups-according-to-rule over the original matchups posted (which ultimately amounts to just another rules modification)?

Edited July 9, 2014 by Fukurou

[shimodahito 336]

^{Good day all,}

^{1-Jejima's line-up change in #7 & #9 slots was accepted...Yellow card.}

^{2-If I ever meet Jejima in-person, he owes me a beer so the Bench World Cup Association Chairman (he) and Blind Gyoferi/Refyoji (me) can talk about the good ol' days of the 2014 BWC.}

^{3-In turn I owe Asashosakari a beer for his inputs -- and maybe develop a World Cup TORCHBEARER game for 2018...hmmmm... first I have to convince him to try the sumo TORCH game.}

^{4-i still can't figure out how to share the saucer theme here but it will certainly lighten the mood (EDIT- HEY, I FIGURED IT OUT!!!):}

^{SAUCER BRACKET, CORE FOUR SEMIFINAL RESULTS, KNOCKOUT ROUND DAY 7}

^{ORIGINALLY ASSIGNED MATCHES AS POSTED BY THE BWC CHAIRMAN}

^{ACHIYMA..............PITINOSATO}

^{(E2).ARG ExT...1...(E1).ARG.2nd}

^RESULTS:

^{BRA.ExT........2........GER.1st}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick draws; Pitinosato's pick wins.}

^{BRA.1st........3...(E1).ARG.ExT}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick loses;}

^{BRA.©.2nd....4....®.GER.2nd}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick loses; Pitinosato's pick wins.}

^{(E2).ARG.1st...5...(E2).NED.1st}

^RESULTS:

^{(E2).ARG.2nd...6........GER.ExT}

^RESULTS:

^{(E1).GER.ExT...7...(E1).ARG.1st}

^RESULTS:

^{(E1).GER.1st...8........NED.ExT}

^RESULTS:

^{(E1).GER.2nd...9........NED.2nd}

^RESULTS:

^{- - -}

^{DAINEKO..................JEJIMA}

^{NED.1st........1...(E1).ARG.1st}

^RESULTS:

^{BRA.2nd........2...(E1).ARG.2nd}

^{RESULTS: Daineko's pick loses;}

^{(E2).ARG.2nd...3...(E1).ARG.ExT}

^RESULTS:

^{BRA.ExT........4........GER.1st}

^{RESULTS: Daineko's pick draws; Jejima's pick wins.}

^{NED.ExT........5........GER.2nd}

^{RESULTS: Jejima's pick wins.}

^{BRA.1st........6........GER.ExT}

^{RESULTS: Daineko's pick loses; Jejima's pick draws.}

^{NED.2nd........7...(E2).NED.ExT}

^RESULTS:

^{(E2).ARG.1st...8...(E2).NED.2nd}

^RESULTS:

^{(E2).ARG ExT...9...(E2).NED.1st}

^RESULTS:

^{===========================================================}

^{+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++}

^{===========================================================}

^{SAUCER BRACKET, CORE FOUR SEMIFINAL RESULTS, KNOCKOUT ROUND DAY 7}

^{PROPER RULES MATCHINGS, BUT UNDER MONO-II}

^{DAINEKO..............PITINOSATO}

^{NED.1st........1...(E1).ARG.2nd}

^RESULTS:

^{BRA.2nd........2........GER.1st}

^{RESULTS: Daineko's pick loses; Pitinosato's pick wins.}

^{(E2).ARG.2nd...3...(E1).ARG.ExT}

^RESULTS:

^{BRA.ExT........4....®.GER.2nd}

^RESULTS:

^{NED.ExT........5...(E2).NED.1st}

^RESULTS:

^{BRA.1st........6........GER.ExT}

^RESULTS:

^{NED.2nd........7...(E1).ARG.1st}

^RESULTS:

^{(E2).ARG.1st...8........NED.ExT}

^RESULTS:

^{(E2).ARG ExT...9........NED.2nd}

^RESULTS:

^{- - -}

^{ACHIYAMA.................JEJIMA}

^{(E2).ARG ExT...1...(E1).ARG.1st}

^RESULTS:

^{BRA.ExT........2...(E1).ARG.2nd}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick draws;}

^{BRA.1st........3...(E1).ARG.ExT}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick loses;}

^{BRA.©.2nd....4........GER.1st}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick loses; Jejima's pick wins.}

^{(E2).ARG.1st...5........GER.2nd}

^RESULTS:

^{(E2).ARG.2nd...6........GER.ExT}

^RESULTS:

^{(E1).GER.ExT...7...(E2).NED.ExT}

^RESULTS:

^{(E1).GER.1st...8...(E2).NED.2nd}

^RESULTS:

^{(E1).GER.2nd...9...(E2).NED.1st}

^RESULTS:

^{Refyoji/Gyoferi says: Either pairing, Pitinosato and Jejima have the edge over their opponents and celebrate with a big stein of Schneider Aventinus for Die Mannschaft's win.}

Edited July 9, 2014 by shimodahito

[kuroimori 1,634]

Before tempers flare even more about the controversial change of matchups, could we just continue to play while keeping an eye on how both options develop scoring-wise?

[Asashosakari 20,273]

A bit late, but here are the MCP results of the quarterfinals:

Rk Player Nat | W D+ D- L ∑GF ∑GA | ØGF ØGA ØGD Pts Pts* S

1 Saruyama ENG | 18 5 0 0 40 13 | 1.74 0.57 +1.17 2.78 3 1

2 Achiyama HON | 19 2 2 0 32 5 | 1.39 0.22 +1.17 2.74 3 5

3 Kaiomitsuki IRN | 18 4 1 0 29 8 | 1.26 0.35 +0.91 2.74 3 1

4 Pitinosato GER | 19 1 3 0 36 10 | 1.57 0.43 +1.13 2.70 3 5

5 Andonishiki MEX | 18 1 4 0 29 8 | 1.26 0.35 +0.91 2.61 3 1

6 Kotononami ARG | 17 0 0 6 51 34 | 2.22 1.48 +0.74 2.22 3 4

7 chabonowaka ECU | 16 0 0 7 31 21 | 1.35 0.91 +0.43 2.09 0 5

8 Terarno CRC | 11 1 9 2 30 13 | 1.30 0.57 +0.74 1.91 1 4

9 Rubensan KOR | 7 9 0 7 13 13 | 0.57 0.57 ±0.00 1.70 3 4

10 Jejima GRE | 7 8 1 7 13 13 | 0.57 0.57 ±0.00 1.65 3 5

11 Maguroyama JPN | 7 7 2 7 13 13 | 0.57 0.57 ±0.00 1.61 3 4

12 shimodahito COL | 7 6 3 7 13 13 | 0.57 0.57 ±0.00 1.57 0 1

13 Daineko URU | 7 5 4 7 13 13 | 0.57 0.57 ±0.00 1.52 2 5

14 ScreechingOwl AUS | 7 4 5 7 13 13 | 0.57 0.57 ±0.00 1.48 2 4

15 Domichi USA | 7 1 8 7 13 13 | 0.57 0.57 ±0.00 1.35 3 1

16 KikoCookie ESP | 4 1 9 9 19 27 | 0.83 1.17 -0.35 1.00 1 5

17 chishafuwaku NED | 3 0 11 9 3 12 | 0.13 0.52 -0.39 0.87 0 1

18 kuroimori POR | 4 2 2 15 7 20 | 0.30 0.87 -0.57 0.78 0 1

18 Fujiyama CMR | 3 4 1 15 5 19 | 0.22 0.83 -0.61 0.78 0 5

20 Chijanofuji SUI | 3 2 2 16 5 25 | 0.22 1.09 -0.87 0.65 0 4

21 Chocshoporyu BRA | 1 3 1 18 3 25 | 0.13 1.09 -0.96 0.43 0 4

22 shumitto BEL | 0 4 0 19 1 27 | 0.04 1.17 -1.13 0.35 0 4

23 Nekonishiki RUS | 1 1 1 20 1 30 | 0.04 1.30 -1.26 0.26 0 5

24 Furanohana FRA | 1 0 2 20 2 27 | 0.09 1.17 -1.09 0.22 0 1

(5 = Saucer, 4 = Bowl, 1 = Cup)

Droning chabonowaka ran into a stronger opponent, while Terarno had the misfortune to be beaten by nominally much worse ScreechingOwl via penalties. By and large the round's results are mirrored here, however, with the bottom 9 spots all taken up by losing players (including three who will get to continue in the Plate). Interestingly, everyone managed to beat at least one of his 23 opponents, although shumitto only did so thanks to the shootout. Saruyama ended up as this round's perfectionist and tops the table. An odd block of 7 players occupies the middle part of the standings, all posting 7 wins and 7 losses outside the shootouts and exactly the same number of goals.

Results summary for regulation time:

Draws: 43x 0-0, 36x 1-1, 9x 2-2

?-0: 120x 1-0, 42x 2-0, 2x 3-0

?-1: 19x 2-1, 2x 3-1

?-2: 3x 3-2

As the only real-life extra time match finished as a draw there as well, relatively little changed in BWC extra time. All 43 0-0's remained at that score, while 9 (of 36) 1-1's turned into a 2-1 and 8 (of 9) 2-2's became 3-2's, all courtesy of the two players who had the Netherlands and Costa Rica as © teams (allowing them to score a second time in most matchups).

Incidentally, two shootouts could only be resolved through the players' respective group results, in one case due to submitting exactly identical penalty selections.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari 20,273]

Overall standings:

Rk +- Player Nat | W D+ D- L ∑GF ∑GA | ØGF ØGA ØGD Pts Pts* S

1 (±0) shimodahito COL | 113 6 13 15 360 104 | 2.35 0.70 +1.65 12.15 12 1

2 (+1) Andonishiki MEX | 107 5 17 18 306 120 | 2.04 0.79 +1.25 11.90 15 1

3 (+1) Saruyama ENG | 102 6 8 31 242 130 | 1.65 0.87 +0.78 11.23 13 1

4 (+1) Kaiomitsuki IRN | 101 4 12 30 254 107 | 1.70 0.71 +1.00 11.13 12 1

5 (+1) Kotononami ARG | 98 1 9 39 356 160 | 2.41 1.11 +1.30 10.41 12 4

6 (-4) chishafuwaku NED | 97 1 21 28 281 121 | 1.82 0.81 +1.01 10.35 12 1

7 (+2) Achiyama HON | 95 2 7 43 227 107 | 1.54 0.70 +0.83 10.26 9 5

8 (+3) Terarno CRC | 80 2 19 46 196 136 | 1.33 0.91 +0.43 8.98 8 4

9 (+5) ScreechingOwl AUS | 71 5 23 48 173 145 | 1.15 0.96 +0.18 8.32 6 4

10 (-2) Chijanofuji SUI | 76 4 16 51 211 138 | 1.37 0.95 +0.43 8.30 6 4

11 (+4) Jejima GRE | 71 8 15 53 152 146 | 1.01 0.97 +0.04 8.30 9 5

12 (-5) Furanohana FRA | 82 0 5 60 285 192 | 1.84 1.30 +0.54 8.15 9 1

13 (-1) Fujiyama CMR | 68 9 15 55 140 143 | 0.91 0.97 -0.05 7.85 6 5

14 (-4) shumitto BEL | 71 5 12 59 207 141 | 1.34 0.97 +0.37 7.67 9 4

15 (+2) Rubensan KOR | 60 12 15 60 146 171 | 0.97 1.13 -0.16 7.50 10 4

16 (+2) Maguroyama JPN | 64 7 10 66 131 145 | 0.87 0.96 -0.09 7.38 9 4

17 (-4) Chocshoporyu BRA | 67 6 12 62 172 178 | 1.12 1.20 -0.09 7.37 3 4

18 (+8) Pitinosato GER | 49 2 22 74 126 162 | 0.89 1.07 -0.17 6.28 8 5

19 (-3) Pandaazuma CIV | 61 0 8 55 158 132 | 1.27 1.06 +0.21 6.16 0

20 (-1) KikoCookie ESP | 49 2 26 70 147 192 | 0.99 1.30 -0.31 5.97 6 5

21 (+1) Daineko URU | 48 5 17 77 95 157 | 0.64 1.04 -0.40 5.91 8 5

22 (+2) chabonowaka ECU | 47 8 8 84 112 183 | 0.79 1.23 -0.44 5.86 6 5

23 (-2) kuroimori POR | 44 7 16 80 104 168 | 0.69 1.13 -0.44 5.43 8 1

24 (-1) Domichi USA | 39 4 25 79 102 162 | 0.69 1.07 -0.39 5.19 10 1

25 (-5) Harumataikai ITA | 44 0 17 63 87 165 | 0.70 1.33 -0.63 4.81 0

26 (-1) Fujiko CHI | 30 0 22 72 91 227 | 0.73 1.83 -1.10 3.61 1

27 (±0) Jakusotsu CRO | 29 1 11 83 95 199 | 0.77 1.60 -0.84 3.23 3

28 (+3) Nekonishiki RUS | 24 2 11 110 62 278 | 0.40 1.86 -1.46 2.87 3 5

29 (-1) Leonishiki NGA | 23 2 12 87 59 179 | 0.48 1.44 -0.97 2.74 3

30 (-1) kamogawa GHA | 22 1 14 87 44 196 | 0.35 1.58 -1.23 2.65 4

31 (-1) Kintamayama BIH | 21 2 14 87 64 202 | 0.52 1.63 -1.11 2.61 0

32 (±0) Doitsuyama ALG | 15 0 13 96 23 222 | 0.19 1.79 -1.60 1.87 3

As mentioned earlier, I'm going to weight all 7 rounds equally, which means the pure W-D-L records and goals scored and received will no longer match the averaged numbers.

Leading shimodahito had a pretty mediocre round 5 and lost his Cup quarterfinal, opening up the competition here again. Andonishiki, Saruyama and Kaiomitsuki narrowed the gap, and having won their own R5 games, are now guaranteed to compete through all 7 rounds, while shimodahito may end up with only 6 scores depending on his Plate semifinal result. The other end of the standings saw Nekonishiki break through the 100-loss barrier en route to his exit from the competition.

Oddly enough the Cup semifinals now consist of three very high-ranked players in Andonishiki, Saruyama and Kaiomitsuki, and - the very lowest-ranked player who is still active, Domichi.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Andonishiki 171]

@ pandaazuma

deepest apologies...

just to make sure - yes, I DO LOVE u, too ;)))

[Jakusotsu 6,401]

Cup Semi-Final:

Saruyama 1:1 Domichi
(England) (USA)

Brazil (ET) D 0:0 D Brazil (ET)
Argentina (E2) (ET) D 0:0 D Netherlands (E2) (ET)
Brazil (1st) L 0:0 L Brazil (1st)
Argentina (E2) (1st) D 0:0 D Germany (E1) (ET)
Brazil (2nd) L 0:0 L Brazil (2nd)
Argentina (E2) (2nd) D 0:0 D Netherlands (E2) (1st)
Germany (E1) (1st) W 0:0 W Germany (E1) (1st)
Germany (E1) (2nd) W 1:0 D Netherlands (E2) (2nd)
Netherlands (1st) D 0:1 W Germany (E1) (2nd)
Netherlands (2nd) D 0:x
Germany (E1) (ET) D 0:x
Netherlands (ET) D 0:x

And once again I'm glad I left this game early since all my predictions have gone wrong so far. What an anticlimax this second semifinal was!

Anyway, each player scores a late goal with Germany-2nd, turning this match into a tie.

Jejima, bring on the penalties, please!

Edited July 9, 2014 by Jakusotsu

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

Bench World Cup Semi Finals

andonishiki (Mexico)	1	0	Kaiomitsuki (Iran)
Argentina (E1) (ET)	D	D	Argentina (E2) (2nd)
Argentina (E1) (2nd)	D	GOAL	Germany © (2nd)
Germany (E2) (ET)	D	GOAL	Germany (1st)
Germany (E2) (2nd)	GOAL	BREAK	Brazil (E1) (1st)
Brazil (ET)	D	D	Argentina (E2) (1st)
Netherlands (ET)	D	D	Netherlands (1st)
Brazil (2nd)	BREAK	D	Netherlands (2nd)
Argentina (E1) (1st)	D	L	Brazil (E1) (2nd)
Germany (E2) (1st)	W	D	Germany (ET)
Brazil (1st)	L	D	Argentina (E2) (ET)
Netherlands (2nd)	D	D	Brazil (E1) (ET)
Netherlands (1st)	D	D	Netherlands (ET)

COMMENTS

andonishiki (Mexico): we're leaving on the dream... Fifth win in a row, but boy - that was a tough one. 1-0.... like so many close games in Brazil. The two South American giants vs the Krauts & oranje Elftal with the best jumping actor in the pitch... Arjen R. This is so tough to predict, both games could go either way, I see no favorite whatsoever in 1st, 2nd or ET. But I'd love to see a final GER vs ARG again, sorry selecão. GER vs NED wont happen, coz this this Latin soil... game kick-off is 4am here in Singapore, outch. Deuuuut-SCHLAAAAAAND !!! Will i catch up with Klose & Ronaldo at the Golden Boot competition ?? Let's have heavy, but fair fight, Mr Saruyama. GO SAKURA

Kaiomitsuki (Iran): I see am I against my heya-mate Andonishiki for this match. So good luck to you sir, may it be a good match.

Refioji Pregame: Both players had a good pre-basho selection with Brazil and Netherlands, allowing them a full compliment to play with. And both show their defensive skills by bringing the ET parts in high slots. And both are proud members of Sakura ichimon. But still the lineups are pretty different with all slots in play. Saruyama clearly favours Brazil over Germany while andonishiki wants Germany to succeed, so this match probably will be the decider.

Refioji MbM: Tue: Kaoimitsuki storms out of the gate, rolling over andonishiki's defensive lineup with possibly one and maybe even two goals in the first three slots. But then he breaks already in slot 4, conceding a goal back. We will see tomorrow if the initial blow will be enough (or if slot 1 is already decisive). Wed: The snoozefest today ended in goalless draws for all periods, allowing Kaiomitsuki to score two quick goals before breaking his chain. andonishiki can only pay one back as he breaks his chain one slot too early. Final score 2:1 for Kaiomitsuki representing Iran.

[Jejima 1,498]

Sorry, rules are rules. The rules were laid out, and those are the ones that we stick by (Sorry, I have only had 45 minutes sleep, and have grumpily pulled on the rijicho hat.) As I said, I made a big mistake. I apologise to all - and am ready for your anger.

Anyways, with the draws in all stages for the Netherlands vs Argentina match, this round is basically based on who you thought was going to win between Germany and Brazil.

[Achiyama 1,272]

I am back from my vacation, and again I am jet-lagged (reverse jet-lag).

I didn't have enough time to go through the whole story of the debate. My head is spinning but I want to point out my opinion.

A rule is a rule, but every rule can be looked over if it creates a bigger mess. Human errors are possible, nobody criticizes the Rijicho for that. Really, it was too much on his shoulder and taking into consideration the bad time difference I understand the stress and exhaustion, which cause people to make mistakes.

But in order to be FAIR to everybody I think we have to stick with the initially posted pairings and assigned Refiojis. I don't see it as a big deal the pairings to differ from the real WC format for one round.

If the error was caught long enough for the players to react and change their line-ups accordingly, then it is justifiable to fix the error and follow the rule.

Regards,

Refioji Achiyama

Edited July 10, 2014 by Achiyama

[Jejima 1,498]

Sorry, this is not up for discussion. We stick by the rules of the game. (I might note that we do not always all agree with Sepp Blatter.)

Once again, I apologise for making a mistake. (I really do apologise.)

1. A mistake was made - this effects *all* players. That mistake has now been corrected.

2. Not every player looks at his opponents team before making their picks, so by not changing the wrong match-ups effects *some* players.

3. All > Some

By changing the match-ups to the correct match-ups, the eventual winner will know that he/she won by following the rules as set out at the very start of the tournament. By not changing, the eventual winner will know that he/she may have won the whole competition only thanks to a mistake made by me. The first case is satisfying. The second case is mildly satisfying.

[Jejima 1,498]

Cup Semi-Final:

Saruyama 1:1 Domichi

(England) (USA)

Brazil (ET) D 0:0 D Brazil (ET)

Argentina (E2) (ET) D 0:0 D Netherlands (E2) (ET)

Brazil (1st) L 0:0 L Brazil (1st)

Argentina (E2) (1st) D 0:0 D Germany (E1) (ET)

Brazil (2nd) L 0:0 L Brazil (2nd)

Argentina (E2) (2nd) D 0:0 D Netherlands (E2) (1st)

Germany (E1) (1st) W 0:0 W Germany (E1) (1st)

Germany (E1) (2nd) W 1:0 D Netherlands (E2) (2nd)

Netherlands (1st) D 0:1 W Germany (E1) (2nd)

Netherlands (2nd) D 0:x

Germany (E1) (ET) D 0:x

Netherlands (ET) D 0:x

And once again I'm glad I left this game early since all my predictions have gone wrong so far. What an anticlimax this second semifinal was!

Anyway, each player scores a late goal with Germany-2nd, turning this match into a tie.

Jejima, bring on the penalties, please!

Here we go....

Saruyama 1,2,3....

Domichi 4,5,6...

It's a

.

.

.

.

.

2

Saruyama goes first...

Brazil!

That's worth one penalty goal.

Saruyama O????

Domichi ?????

Next, Domichi...

Netherlands!

Also, one penalty goal.

Saruyama O????

Domichi O????

Saruyama has....

Argentina!

That's two penalties!

Saruyama OOO??

Domichi O????

Domichi next with....

Germany!

Also worth two penalties!

Saruyama OOO??

Domichi OOO??

Saruyama again....

France! Oops... That is his third option, so counts as two penalty misses, to make up the 'five'.

Saruyama OOOXX

Domichi OOO??

Domichi steps up....

Brazil!

That's worth one penalty...

To neaten things up, this is the final result of the shoot-out.

Saruyama OOOXX

Domichi OOOXO

Domichi wins 4-3

Domichi progresses to the Cup Final. Saruyama will be competing the 3rd/4th place play-off match.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Sorry, this is not up for discussion. We stick by the rules of the game. (I might note that we do not always all agree with Sepp Blatter.)

Once again, I apologise for making a mistake. (I really do apologise.)

1. A mistake was made - this effects *all* players. That mistake has now been corrected.

2. Not every player looks at his opponents team before making their picks, so by not changing the wrong match-ups effects *some* players.

3. All > Some

By changing the match-ups to the correct match-ups, the eventual winner will know that he/she won by following the rules as set out at the very start of the tournament. By not changing, the eventual winner will know that he/she may have won the whole competition only thanks to a mistake made by me. The first case is satisfying. The second case is mildly satisfying.

Not going to get into a scrap over what is just a game, and it's obviously fine to take the 'rules are rules' line, but Andonishiki's point is that he may lose a match by picking tactically against another player that he expected. If there was big prize money on this, the whole thing would have to be scrapped! Saying that rules are rules can never negate the fact that he picked expecting someone else and may lose because of it.

But as I said...it's just a game...and no one in their right mind would get angry over a clearly honest mistake from someone who has worked extremely hard to make the World Cup more enjoyable for us sumo nuts.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Shimodahito:

1.Argentina (2nd)

2.Argentina (ET)

3.Germany (E1) (1st)

4.Argentina (1st)

5.Germany (E1) (2nd)

6.Netherlands (E2) (ET)

7.Germany (E1) (ET)

8.Netherlands (E2) (2nd)

9.Netherlands (E2) (1st)

Kuroimori:

1. Netherlands ET (E2)

2. Germany ET (E1)

3. Germany 1st (E1)

4. Netherlands 2nd (E2)

5. Brazil 2nd

6. Netherlands 1st (E2)

7. Brazil ET

8. Germany 2nd (E1)

9. Brazil 1st

Kuroimori's opponent had no losers in his team, and that can only mean one thing: defeat. His chain is broken at 5 and Shimodahito is a 1-0 winner.

[Fukurou 534]

^{Refyoji/Gyoferi says: Either pairing, Pitinosato and Jejima have the edge over their opponents and celebrate with a big stein of Schneider Aventinus for Die Mannschaft's win.}

So Pitinosato and Jejima won, but what were the scores? 1-0 for each?

Edited July 10, 2014 by Fukurou

[Asashosakari 20,273]

Anyone who thinks it's feasible to pick tactically in this game is deluding himself anyway. ;-) 99% of matches simply come down to who has the better overall lineup.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

And indeed...I see that Andonishiki would have beaten his original opponent (Saruyama) but has lost to Kaimoitsuki in the amended match-up! Get Sepp Blatter on the phone immediately!

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Anyone who thinks it's feasible to pick tactically in this game is deluding himself anyway. ;-) 99% of matches simply come down to who has the overall lineup.

Very possibly true!

[shimodahito 336]

^{Good day all,}

^{- your saucer cup theme song...}

^{===========================================================}

^{+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++}

^{===========================================================}

^{SAUCER BRACKET, CORE FOUR SEMIFINAL RESULTS, KNOCKOUT ROUND DAY 8}

^{PROPER RULES MATCHINGS, MONO-II DENIED BY BWC CHAIRMAN}

^{DAINEKO..............PITINOSATO}

^{NED.1st........1...(E1).ARG.2nd}

^{RESULTS: Both picks draw. Daineko 0-0 Pitinosato.}

^{BRA.2nd........2........GER.1st}

^{RESULTS: Daineko's pick loses, chain broken; Pitinosato's pick wins, scores. Daineko 0-1 Pitinosato.}

^{(E2).ARG.2nd...3...(E1).ARG.ExT}

^{RESULTS: Both picks draw, no change. Daineko 0-1 Pitinosato.}

^{BRA.ExT........4....®.GER.2nd}

^{RESULTS: Daineko's pick draws; Pitinosato's ® pick wins, scores 2. Daineko 0-3 Pitinosato.}

^{NED.ExT........5...(E2).NED.1st}

^{RESULTS: Both picks draw, no change. Daineko 0-3 Pitinosato.}

^{BRA.1st........6........GER.ExT}

^{RESULTS: Daineko's pick loses; Pitinosato's pick draws, continues. Daineko 0-3 Pitinosato.}

^{NED.2nd........7...(E1).ARG.1st}

^{RESULTS: Both picks draw, no change. Daineko 0-3 Pitinosato.}

^{(E2).ARG.1st...8........NED.ExT}

^{RESULTS: Both picks draw, no change. Daineko 0-3 Pitinosato.}

^{(E2).ARG ExT...9........NED.2nd}

^{RESULTS: Both picks draw, no change. Daineko 0-3 Pitinosato.}

^{- - -}

^{ACHIYAMA.................JEJIMA}

^{(E2).ARG ExT...1...(E1).ARG.1st}

^{RESULTS: Both picks draw, continue. Achiyama 0-0 Jejima.}

^{BRA.ExT........2...(E1).ARG.2nd}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick draws; Achiyama 0-0 Jejima.}

^{BRA.1st........3...(E1).ARG.ExT}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick loses, chain broken; Jejima's pick draws, continues. Achiyama 0-0 Jejima.}

^{BRA.©.2nd....4........GER.1st}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick loses; Jejima's pick wins, scores. Achiyama 0-1 Jejima.}

^{(E2).ARG.1st...5........GER.2nd}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick draws; Jejima's pick wins, scores. Achiyama 0-2 Jejima.}

^{(E2).ARG.2nd...6........GER.ExT}

^{RESULTS: Both picks draw, no change. Achiyama 0-2 Jejima.}

^{(E1).GER.ExT...7...(E2).NED.ExT}

^{RESULTS: Both picks draw, no change. Achiyama 0-2 Jejima.}

^{(E1).GER.1st...8...(E2).NED.2nd}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick wins; Jejima's pick draws, continues. Achiyama 0-2 Jejima.}

^{(E1).GER.2nd...9...(E2).NED.1st}

^{RESULTS: Achiyama's pick wins; Jejima's pick draws, continues. Achiyama 0-2 Jejima.}

^{Refyoji/Gyoferi says: Pitinosato wins 3-0. Jejima wins 2-0. Both pour Ayinger Celebrator Doppelbock and Schnapps, and dance to the saucer cup theme song. Achiyama and Daineko have a shot of Brazilian Cachaça for making it this far.}

Edited July 10, 2014 by shimodahito

[Asashosakari 20,273]

While implementing the semifinal rules for the MCP, I came across this again:

Whilst checking up on the rules for the semi-finals and finals in the Bench Euro 2012 thread, I came upon this 'rule change' at the very end of the thread for future tournaments.....

1. (As previously mentioned), in the knock-out stages, the special rules for ® and © teams only apply for extra time, if extra time has actually been played for the corresponding real match. I.e. E.T. ® teams do not have the chains broken if no extra time is played, and E.T. © teams do not score a goal if no extra time is played.

We have not been playing this rule for this tournament - and will continue not to do so.

For future tournaments, is this a good idea? I think it was suggested because too many players with strong ® and © teams were doing too well. This tournament there have been plenty of upsets, and out of the 4 Cup finalists, only Kaiomitsuki with his © team Germany has any 'specialist' teams left in his squad. (Statistically, this is the right number of 'specialist' teams being among the last 4) - and it rewards the players who picked well / got lucky with the draw at the very start of the tournament.

I therefore suggest that this rule is NOT adopted for future tournaments.

Any thoughts?

I think an easier fix would be to clean up the (R16/QF) extra time rules themselves, because those remain quite a mess.

The only proper way to handle the knockouts is this:

Regulation time:

- results as of 90 minutes, complete run or until chains break

Extra time:

- Phase #1: results as of 90 minutes [completes first run through lineups, or until chains break again]

- Phase #2: second run with (new) results as of 120 minutes, complete run or until chains break again

The current implementation (ET phase #1 already uses the 120 minute results) potentially punishes players for making a better selection than the opponent, e.g. like this:

Regulation:

Player1 Player2

Team1 D 0-0 D Team2

Team3[R] W 1-0 W Team4

Team5 L x-1 W Team6

Team6 W x-x L Team5

Team2 D D Team1

ET:

Player1 Player2

Team2 W 1-x L Team1

Team1 L x-x W Team2

Team1 and Team2 played each other there, with Team2 winning in extra time. Player2 correctly anticipated that outcome (he put Team2 much higher than Team1), yet Player1 wins, simply because the 120 minute results are arbitrarily inserted into the processing of the chain. Actual (i.e. sensible) extra time should look like this:

Regulation:

Player1 Player2

Team1 D 0-0 D Team2

Team3[R] W 1-0 W Team4

Team5 L x-1 W Team6

Team6 W x-x L Team5

Team2 D D Team1

ET phase #1 (90 min):

Player1 Player2

Team2 D 0-0 D Team1

ET phase #2 (120 min):

Player1 Player2

Team1 L x-1 W Team2

Team3[R] Team4

Team5 Team6

Team6 Team5

Team2 W x-x L Team1

For extra-time chains not involving draws, this version produces the same results as the current rules, so it's strictly superior to them.

That also eliminates any need to treat ® and © teams separately from normal teams. In regulation time and ET phase #1, every team will be active, while in ET phase #2, only teams that actually played real-life extra time will be active.

[Jejima 1,498]

I am very tired (I had about a total of 3 hours sleep last night), and have just come back from a social gathering (so, have had a beer or two more). Due to my time-zone, I am going to work on this game now, before dinner, and much needed sleep. (I also need to do 'real life' stuff, but I will postpone that until tomorrow evening.)

Once again, my apologies for my big mistake. I hope that this has not ruined too much your enjoyment for the World Cup, and for this game. I promise that if we play again in the future, I will try and do better. This is only the third time that we have played it, and it is not yet perfect, and I guess it is still in its 'testing stage'. (If I recall from Bench Sumo, it took about 6 or 7 bashos before things were 'settled' - and even now we still have the occasional problems.) Please bear with me.

Even if you don't agree with my decision this time around (which I truly understand), I hope you will understand it, and will support accept it.

(I should also thank my lovely wife Michelle, who once again is being understanding when I say that for the next hour or so, I am going to be busy....)

[Jejima 1,498]

Bench Plate:-

chishafuwaku - Furanohana

Neither of these players had Germany in their squad, so this match ends 0-0 after extra time.

Penalties!

chishafukaku 1,2,3....

Furanohana 4,5, 6....

3

chishafukaku goes first....

Netherlands!

It's one penalty goal....

chishafukaku O????

Furanohana ?????

Furanohana next....

Brazil!

Also, one penalty goal....

chishafukaku O????

Furanohana O????

Next for chisha....

France!

A BIG miss - that's two missed penalty goals.

chishafukaku OXX??

Furanohana O????

Can Fura take advantage?

France!

No, he can't...

chishafukaku OXX??

Furanohana OXX??

chisha again....

Brazil!

That's just one PK....

chishafukaku OXXXO

Furanohana OXX??

With a good kick here, Furanohana will progress.....

Netherlands!

Also just one PK...

chishafukaku OXXXO

Furanohana OXXXO

We now go to sudden death.....

chisha....

Argentina!

That's worth two PKs....

chishafukaku OXXXOOO

Furanohana OXXXO??

Furanohana needs to match to stay in....

Argentina!

chishafukaku OXXXOOO

Furanohana OXXXOOO

Still even...

chisha....

Belgium!

It's a big miss!

chishafukaku OXXXOOOX

Furanohana OXXXOOO

Furanohana....

Colombia!

It's a great save!

chishafukaku OXXXOOOX

Furanohana OXXXOOOX

chisha...

Colombia!

Another great save!

chishafukaku OXXXOOOXX

Furanohana OXXXOOOX

Fura.....

Belgium!

Does no one want to win?

chishafukaku OXXXOOOXX

Furanohana OXXXOOOXX

chisha....

Germany!

That should be worth 2 PKs, but due to the situation (to make it more realistic), we'll only count it as one....

chishafukaku OXXXOOOXXO

Furanohana OXXXOOOXX

Fura most now score (with Germany) to stay in the match....

Costa Rica!!!!

He misses! (For the record, Furanohana was the only player to put Germany on 8th slot for PK taking)

So, the final PK record is....

chishafukaku OXXXOOOXXO

Furanohana OXXXOOOXXX

chishafukaku wins 5-4 on the prolonged shoot-out.

[Jejima 1,498]

Bench Bowl....

Kotononami vs Maguroyama

Both player match their Germany winning slots in the same places, so the match ends up 0-0 after extra time.

So it's penalties...

Kotononami 1,2,3

Maguroyama 4,5,6

2

Kotononami first with....

Argentina!

Two quick PKs!

Kotononami OO???

Maguroyama ?????

Maguroyama is under pressure....

Argentina!

So cool!

Kotononami OO???

Maguroyama OO???

Kotononami again....

Netherlands....

Just the one PK...

Kotononami OOO??

Maguroyama OO???

Maguroyama....

Germany!

Wow! We should all learn from this PK taker....

Kotononami OOO??

Maguroyama OOOO?

Kotononami must score to stay in....

Colombia!!!!

What a big miss!

Well, that (as that is the last of the scheduled PKs under semi-final rules), it's all over!

Kotononami OOOXX

Maguroyama OOOO?

Maguroyama wins 4-3