Nagoya Basho 2012 - General Discussion Thread

[Igordemorais 79]

I TOLD you! I called it!

[Bugman 384]

Gah fiddlesticks! >:-( As a Hak fan i have to say i'm sorely disappointed, well deserved win and yusho for Harumafuji though.

[Igordemorais 79]

Harumafuji was A BEAST this tournament. 9 different kimarite! Not a single fight was even contested... he just ran a truck over everyone. This was an inspired performance, the likes of which should always be remembered.

He won last year too. Do you guys think this is inconsequential or do you think there is something about the summer slippery of the dohyo or the temperature or something that gives him an edge?

This is worth thinking about. Like how many tennis players are specialists in different kinds of court.

[igirisujin 3]

Harumafuji was A BEAST this tournament. 9 different kimarite! Not a single fight was even contested... he just ran a truck over everyone. This was an inspired performance, the likes of which should always be remembered.

He won last year too. Do you guys think this is inconsequential or do you think there is something about the summer slippery of the dohyo or the temperature or something that gives him an edge?

This is worth thinking about. Like how many tennis players are specialists in different kinds of court.

I think Haramafuji bypasses the slippery mat altogether by turning himself into a speeding bullet lol. This is why he has so much success in Nagoya.

July 2009 was my first full basho and I remember that he did the trick then, back when the three-headed Mongolian monster ran over everything in its path.......now it's just 2.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Some say the Day 12 bout against Kakuryu was odd.

[Treblemaker 254]

Now the Arrow of Fate gets squarely aimed at Hakuho. While he wasn't exactly thrown off of the dihyo, it wasn't a graceful or dignified exit. Last time I saw that was when Asa launched him a few years ago.

And he did look shaky in seveal bouts. And he came up statistically lame in May. And he was given the Bum's Rush here. I'm having trouble remembering the last time he won something... So, NOW what does he do? Barring the total mind-melting concept that all of this has been planned ahead of time, and that it was in the cards for Tenho and HF to win the last to bashos - for whatever conspiratory reasons - and that might include a Yokozuna run by HF to clear up the logjam - so, assuming this was all legit and HF DID earn every bout, now what does Hakuho do?

Has the quality caught up with him? Is he seriously injured? I looked for him to come back and take this basho, only because he needed to re-assert his stamp on the organization. With all the Ozeki gaining strength and credibility (especially OSH, who I've never liked, but have found a new respect and appreciation for him in the way he bounced back this basho) how does Hak come back from this? He couldn't come up with a solution in May, and looked no different this time. I'm sure he's embarrassed and his pride has taken a kicking. So now what?

In other news: What was with the extended-arm-handshake-whatever that Kise was pulling with Osh? Has he done that before? Is this more Mental Midget Gamesmanship from Kise? All this does is fire up the opponent and the result has him landing on his butt. And this is The Next Great Native Hope?

[Nabuko 11]

Shohozan as komubusi? He faced 3 ozekis (0:3) and one sekiwake (1:0).

[Igordemorais 79]

Stop hatin'

[Mukonoso 273]

So at 5-10, does Takanoyama get dropped back down to Juryo? :-(

Edited July 22, 2012 by Mukonoso

[botev1921 33]

That makes most sense to me, yet I am not sure it is reasonable to believe both people with 8-7 at K and M2 will be promoted to the same level!

Myogiryu S Aoiyama

Goeido K Tochinoshin

Aran M1 Shohozan

Homasho M2 Kaisei

Toyohibiki M3 Gagamaru

Toyonoshima M4 Aminishiki

[shumitto 418]

First time I remember seeing Hakuho being treated like a rag-doll in a bout that really matters ( in the early past). The Yokozuna is no longer that dominant power in the sport, so if it is not Harumafuji, someone should step up and become the second Yokozuna. Although we know he is likely to return to his former self in September, It would be nice to see Harumafuji doing that.

[Igordemorais 79]

This is a bit ridiculous. Hakuho has 22 titles, over 3 from Harumafuji, 1 from Baruto, 1 from Kotooshu. He went 14-1 on this tournament, only losing to the champion. Last tournament he was injured. What do you expect him to do? Become The Incredible Hulk? If anything a 14-1 record is indicative of his dominance if nothing else.

[Fukurou 534]

This is a bit ridiculous. Hakuho has 22 titles, over 3 from Harumafuji, 1 from Baruto, 1 from Kotooshu. He went 14-1 on this tournament, only losing to the champion. Last tournament he was injured. What do you expect him to do? Become The Incredible Hulk? If anything a 14-1 record is indicative of his dominance if nothing else.

He's a yokozuna. Winning every basho 15-0, regardless of physical condition, is a job requirement.

He's also supposed to be a model citizen, showing absolutely no emotion on the dohyo, and never ever do things like shove opponents or perform henka.

And no, I'm not exaggerating.

[Bugman 384]

He's a yokozuna. Winning every basho 15-0, regardless of physical condition, is a job requirement.

Did the other Yokozuna's in the past do that? i wouldn't know as Hakuho is the first Yokozuna i've seen since i started following Sumo, to me 14-1 seems rather impressive even for a Yokozuna.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Bugman

[Igordemorais 79]

Are you gentlemen out of your mind?

Musashimaru won 9 out of 22 basho as Yokozuna.

Wakanohana never won a single basho as Yokozuna.

Takanohana won 15 out of 38 basho as Yokozuna.

Akebono won 8 out of 40 basho as Yokozuna.

Asahifuji won 1 out of 8 basho as Yokozuna.

Onokuni won 1 out of 16 basho as Yokozuna.

What the hell kind of insane expectation have you built up over what it be a Yokozuna is this? Just because Asashoryu and Hakuho have been extremely dominant, that does not mean that you have to be some sort of untouchable sumo God to hold this title. He won 19 out of 28 basho as Yokozuna, And 10 out of 14 since Asashoryu retired.

And yet, Hakuho IS an untouchable sumo God, just because he is becoming SLIGHTLY TOUCHABLE and I do mean SLIGHTLY does not, by any stretch of the imagination, mean he is not fit to be a Yokozuna anymore.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Igordemorais

[Torabayama 51]

Now the Arrow of Fate gets squarely aimed at Hakuho. While he wasn't exactly thrown off of the dihyo, it wasn't a graceful or dignified exit. Last time I saw that was when Asa launched him a few years ago.

I take it you forgot about this one and a few others since then.

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

He's a yokozuna. Winning every basho 15-0, regardless of physical condition, is a job requirement.

Did the other Yokozuna's in the past do that? i wouldn't know as Hakuho is the first Yokozuna i've seen since i started following Sumo, to me 14-1 seems rather impressive even for a Yokozuna.

You are totally right, and yes, Fukurou is absolutely exaggerating here. Going by her standards, for example Musashimaru was an abject failure since he had not a single 15-0 as a yokozuna.

[Tikozan 4]

So at 5-10, does Takanoyama get dropped back down to Juryo? :-(

Not shure. Hochiyama, Ikioi and Tochinowaka will drop back to Juryo, and the same with Tamaasuka. I think he' no. 5 on the drop-down list. The question for me is: will J5w Fujiazuma be promoted? If yes, I fear Takanoyama will drop down or Tamawashi with 4-11 jumped him (I dunno...)

[Fukurou 534]

He's a yokozuna. Winning every basho 15-0, regardless of physical condition, is a job requirement.

Did the other Yokozuna's in the past do that? i wouldn't know as Hakuho is the first Yokozuna i've seen since i started following Sumo, to me 14-1 seems rather impressive even for a Yokozuna.

You are totally right, and yes, Fukurou is absolutely exaggerating here. Going by her standards, for example Musashimaru was an abject failure since he had not a single 15-0 as a yokozuna.

So there aren't "degrees" of "yokozuna-hood," with "weak yokozuna" (ex: the most recent Wakanohana) at one end and "dai-yokozuna" (ex: the current Takanohana-oyakata) on the other? According to the NSK Yokozuna aren't supposed to be 15-0 (even if it's unrealistic)? 10-5Y basho is good enough for a yokozuna? Haven't heard that one before - seems to me that would have (and has had) the powers that be complaining that the yokozuna must be better. Aren't yokozuna supposed to be the supermen, the epitome of what is grand and glorious and bursting with fighting spirit and hinaku among rikishi?

Edited July 22, 2012 by Fukurou

[shumitto 418]

Hakuho won 7 out of 7 Yusho before winning 3 out of the last 7. It is evident he is not the same, he is not Hulk, he ages and wears out like anyone else. My point is, even though he is still number 1#, an opening is now there for someone willing and able to join him in the rank.

[yorikiried by fate 2,038]

Statistic fetishism:

Harumafuji's zensho yusho is the 9th done by an Ozeki in the 6bpy era. The first since Hakuho's in May 2007.

Query.

[shumitto 418]

Statistic fetishism:

Harumafuji's zensho yusho is the 9th done by an Ozeki in the 6bpy era. The first since Hakuho's in May 2007.

Query.

Good ! All former or current (Hakuho) Yokozuna.

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

He's a yokozuna. Winning every basho 15-0, regardless of physical condition, is a job requirement.

Did the other Yokozuna's in the past do that? i wouldn't know as Hakuho is the first Yokozuna i've seen since i started following Sumo, to me 14-1 seems rather impressive even for a Yokozuna.

You are totally right, and yes, Fukurou is absolutely exaggerating here. Going by her standards, for example Musashimaru was an abject failure since he had not a single 15-0 as a yokozuna.

So there aren't "degrees" of "yokozuna-hood," with "weak yokozuna" (ex: the most recent Wakanohana) at one end and "dai-yokozuna" (ex: the current Takanohana-oyakata) on the other? According to the NSK Yokozuna aren't supposed to be 15-0 (even if it's unrealistic)? 10-5Y basho is good enough for a yokozuna? Haven't heard that one before - seems to me that would have (and has had) the powers that be complaining that the yokozuna must be better. Aren't yokozuna supposed to be the supermen, the epitome of what is grand and glorious and bursting with fighting spirit and hinaku among rikishi?

Your argument doesn't convince me at all since Musashimaru is supposed to have been a dai-yokozuna.

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

Statistic fetishism:

Harumafuji's zensho yusho is the 9th done by an Ozeki in the 6bpy era. The first since Hakuho's in May 2007.

Query.

Good ! All former or current (Hakuho) Yokozuna.

Well, except Wakashimazu of course. IIRC he is the strongest ozeki in my historical strength discussion thingy I did a while ago.

[Asashosakari 20,223]

In any case, aren't the makuuchi<->juryo exchanges pretty obvious? 5 guys up, Tama/Tama/T'waka/Hochi/Ikioi down, both M12's get a lucky stay. Ikioi ain't staying with a 7-8 from the bottom spot when there's a perfectly acceptable other borderliner in Takanoyama to keep.

Ditto on five guys going up to juryo, I would say. I can't imagine that Oniarashi stays in favour of Satoyama, and I'll also be surprised if Arawashi/Higonojo force down Hokutokuni and/or Kyokushuho.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Asashosakari