Asa in hot water again?

[ilovesumo 12]

All in all, good answers.

I see no hate at all.

[madorosumaru 7]

As recommended by his personal physician and agreed to by Takasago Oyakata, a psychiatrist made a house call to Asashoryu on Sunday. His preliminary diagnosis is that the yokozuna is having a nervous breakdown and is on verge of melancholia (depression).

The doctor said Ryu's mood is dark and his thoughts are not coherent. He finds everything to be oppressive, but from time to time, shows signs that he wants to return and gambarize.

[nirumaruyama 0]

I hope Asa doesn't do a David Duval or become a wooden rooster!

[paolo 0]

Since I am not an expert and just to understand what is the severity of Asashoryu's mistake, may somebody answer to the following questions ?

1. How many jungyo's are there in a year ? are they all important in the same way ?

2. How many jungyo's has Asashoryu missed since he is a yokozuna ?

3. How many jungyo's has Takanohana missed in his career?

4. How many jungyo's has Musashimaru missed in his career?

5. How many jungyo's has Akebono missed in his career?

Thanks in advance.

[obinishiki 0]

Since I am not an expert and just to understand what is the severity of Asashoryu's mistake, may somebody answer to the following questions ?

1. How many jungyo's are there in a year ? are they all important in the same way ?

2. How many jungyo's has Asashoryu missed since he is a yokozuna ?

3. How many jungyo's has Takanohana missed in his career?

4. How many jungyo's has Musashimaru missed in his career?

5. How many jungyo's has Akebono missed in his career?

Thanks in advance.

The real question is: How many jungyos has ( feel free to fill in the other 68) missed due to injury while playin soccer?

[Randomitsuki 2,898]

A thought experiment for Asashoryu defenders:

Imagine that Asashoryu has an abysmal start in a regular hon-basho (let's say 1-3 after four days). As is quite common with yokozunae, he goes kyujo - there is always an injury to be found because every rikishi is wrecked in some way. Now on nakabi you see the kyujo yokozuna playing soccer in a charity event for kids in Mongolia.

A similar thought experiment would be if Asashoryu skipped an entire basho due to kyujo, and then were taking part in a charity soccer match in Mongolia on nakabi.

Would you still defend him in such a case? I am pretty certain that you wouldn't, you would rather think that a suspension is OK. How could he dare to rob you of the pleasure of seeing him fight?

My point here is that from the NSK perspective it doesn't make much difference if Asashoryu takes a rather questionable time-out during honbasho, before honbasho, during jungyo, or before jungyo.

Maybe you defend Asashoryu because he didn't do anything that diminished your personal joy of seeing him. But now imagine how PO'd the jungyo spectators will react. It's easy to call them an angry mob when your own interests aren't affected.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Asahi Shimbun Editorial on the Football-ryu incident.

[paolo 0]

Since I am not an expert and just to understand what is the severity of Asashoryu's mistake, may somebody answer to the following questions ?

1. How many jungyo's are there in a year ? are they all important in the same way ?

2. How many jungyo's has Asashoryu missed since he is a yokozuna ?

3. How many jungyo's has Takanohana missed in his career?

4. How many jungyo's has Musashimaru missed in his career?

5. How many jungyo's has Akebono missed in his career?

Thanks in advance.

The real question is: How many jungyos has ( feel free to fill in the other 68) missed due to injury while playin soccer?

Your comment is not nice towards me, because it seems to imply that I am trying to defend Asashoryu. That is not the case. My questions are simple. I would like simple answers. I would like to understand. I do not want these questions to be distorted by the "playing soccer" thing. Only with the answers I will be able (maybe) to make a connection to the "soccer" matter. Forgive my sincerity and thank you anyway.

[obinishiki 0]

Your comment is not nice towards me, because it seems to imply that I am trying to defend Asashoryu. That is not the case. My questions are simple. I would like simple answers. I would like to understand. I do not want these questions to be distorted by the "playing soccer" thing. Only with the answers I will be able (maybe) to make a connection to the "soccer" matter. Forgive my sincerity and thank you anyway.

I don't think my post was rude or so, but if you do feel offended be assured it wasn't my intent.

As for the answers, i have to admit i don't know them, but it seems quite odd to me that you have

to know how often Akebono for instance missed a jungyo in order to "make the connection to the football (for heaven's sake) matter." The problem wasn't that he was going to miss the jungyo, but the fact that he lied about the graveness of the injury. BTW after readin' your "Yokozuna cheer up"-thread, one is drawn to the conclusion that you've already made up your mind about the whole matter.

And of course i forgive you anything (I am not worthy...)

[madorosumaru 7]

John B. Ryu: "I feel so broke up, I want to go home."

Call to the rijicho for sure

Let me go home, let me go home

I want to go home, let me go home

Well, I feel so broke up

I want to go home

I want to go home, let me go home

Why don't they let me go home

That was the worst trip I've ever been on

(Apologies to the Beach Boys)

Dr. Honda (center in the picture) observed Asashoryu at his apartment and concluded that the yokozuna is in bad shape. He diagnosed the yokozuna to be in a pre-melancholia stage which would deteriorate into full-blown melancholia if not treated immediately.

Dr. Honda, a specialist in psychiatry, met with Ryu for about an hour and 40 minutes. He said, "The yokozuna is broken down mentally. He cannot answer my questions properly." He said the man that was the king of the dohyo only weeks ago is but a shell of himself. He has no appetite and cannot get much sleep, leaving him in a constant daze. During the time the doctor was at the apartment, Ryu was served a bowl of Mongolian soup but he could only consume about a fifth of it. The doctor cautioned, "It it continues like this, he will have full-blown melancholia in two or three days. Once he gets into that kind of depressive state, it would take three months to recover."

The doctor recommended that Asashoryu be allowed to return to Mongolia as soon as possible to recover. Ryu's personal physician had similar opinions after seeing the yokozuna on Friday. However, he is a internist, a family doctor. With a specialist in mental disorders confirming the findings, Dr. Hiraishi's earlier suggestion has gained more credence.

The yokozuna keeps repeating, "I want to go home. I want to go home," "I regret what I have done," and "I'm in pain." But, he is in no condition to express his feelings coherently to others. According to Dr. Honda, facing the media at this time would be ill-advised. "It's not right to ask a sick person to discuss psychological issues. It would be like asking a person with broken bones all over his body to walk."

The doctor also said if the condition is treated promptly before it turns into melancholia, recovery could be as short as two weeks. "If necessary, I will accompany the yokozuna to Mongolia." Takasago Oyakata said he wanted to see the yokozuna personally before commiting his next move. It is believed that could be as soon as Monday.

Edited August 6, 2007 by madorosumaru

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

An interesting post on another forum regarding the purported reasoning for the suspension.

orginal Japanese article quoted

[paolo 0]

The problem wasn't that he was going to miss the jungyo, but the fact that he lied about the graveness of the injury.

My point is very simple: if he lied not only is he guilty, but he is also very very very stupid: he could have stayed at home resting all the time and nobody would have had anything to say ..... So why do we not keep into ANY consideration his explanations and Mongolian government's explanations and excuses ? A lie is a lie, a mistake is a mistake.

BTW after readin' your "Yokozuna cheer up"-thread, one is drawn to the conclusion that you've already made up your mind about the whole matter.

I disagree fully. That has nothing to do with that matter. I think Asashoryu is one of the greatest champions in sumo history (or am I wrong ?). He is being dealt with like a criminal. I think that losing Asashoryu would be very bad for sumo. Considering his mental conditions, I am simply sure that he needs encouragement. Fullstop.

Going back to real work: I would simply like to compare Yokozuna's behaviours and Kyokai's behaviours in similar circumstances in the past. How did Asashoryu behave in the past ? How did other yokozunas behave in the past ? I really hope that somebody can answer my original questions:

1. How many jungyo's are there in a year ? are they all important in the same way ?

2. How many jungyo's has Asashoryu missed since he is a yokozuna ?

3. How many jungyo's has Takanohana missed in his career?

4. How many jungyo's has Musashimaru missed in his career?

5. How many jungyo's has Akebono missed in his career?

Thank you all for the patience that I know you need to read my posts .... But I am an engineer and I like to have data before speaking and doing....

[madorosumaru 7]

Takasago Oyakata went to visit Asashoryu and stayed for about 15 minutes. He said that the yokozuna looked haggard and would only respond, "I will gambarize" everytime the shisho spoke to him. Takasago again said it was important for Ryu to make a public apology but, under the circumstances, "there is no way he can have a press conference until he gets some treatment."

As for having Ryu return to Mongolia, the oyakata emphasized that the suggestion came from the two doctors. "Neither the yokozuna nor I have made [any such request]." Takasago also mentioned that he will get a second opinion from another psychiatrist and then report the findings to Kitanoumi Rijicho. Obviously, he has heard all the contradicting opinions offered by other experts.

It's like a chess game. Each move--each quote--is calculated.

[Sashohitowa 6]

... and would only respond, "I will gambarize" everytime the shisho spoke to him.

I am sorry for this, and, again - all my respect to Asashoryu - but this is extremely funny... :-S

[Kintamayama 47,194]

What if Asashoryu called the NSK from Mongolia and told them he changed his mind and would actually attend the jungyo before playing soccer? That might have wrinkled a few foreheads, but wouldn't it have been the only course of action to neither offend the NSK nor the Mongolian government?

That wouldn't have happened because Asa didn't think for a second that he is doing anything wrong, so would never have thought to ask permission.BTW, he didn't ask permission to go to Mongolia either..

Edited August 6, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 47,194]

Some articles from around the globe in English, a few with funny headlines..

http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstPhotos/...p?photoid=23018

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/sport/arch...8/05/2003372851

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4150184a1823.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...02/wsumo102.xml

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,2...5-23210,00.html

http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstStory/i...?storyid=329599

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2139378,00.html

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&am...05545532C100661

http://africa.reuters.com/odd/news/usnT1389.html

[madorosumaru 7]

An article on the on-line version of Sports Hochi reported that a doctor from the Kyokai Medical Clinic and a specialist in psychiatry paid a house call to see Asashoryu late Monday night. According to a number of insiders, the psychiatrist diagnozed the yokozuna as having a serious condition of pre-depression and recommended that he be allowed to return to Mongolia for treatment.

Once Takasago Oyakata receives the report, he will present it to the Kyokai and seek approval for the trip to Mongolia. The rijicho would then either have a telephone conference with the board or call another emergency board meeting. With the approval from Kyokai, the yokozuna could return to Mongolia within this week.

Because Dr. Honda knew Asashoryu from before and Dr. Hiraishi is the yokozuna's personal physician, there were certain amount of doubt cast upon their diagnoses. Therefore, Takasago Oyakata discussed the matter with the head of the Kyokai Medical Clinic, who arranged for the Kyokai doctor and an "unbiased" psychiatrist to go see the yokozuna. However, the third-party doctor came up with the same diagnosis. In fact, according to yet another source, he felt the yokozuna's condition was even more serious than Dr. Honda had indicated. The neutral doctor said, if Ryu is not allowed to go back and is forced to continue kinshin at home, it would endanger not just his rikishi life but may result in much greater consequences.

A very serious-looking Takasago Oyakata discussing his meeting with his deshi.

[Edited to add latest development]

Sanspo also reported that the third-party psychiatrist had come up with a diagnosis of pre-depression. The article said that Takasago Oyakata has already received the doctor's report.

Kitanoumi Rijicho has indicated that he would hold an emergency board meeting. While fierce opposition is expected from certain oyakata, there is now a distinct possibility of Asashoryu returning to Mongolia within this week.

Edited August 7, 2007 by madorosumaru

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

While fierce opposition is expected from certain oyakata, there is now a distinct possibility of Asashoryu returning to Mongolia within this week.

who is that oyakata?

[Kintamayama 47,194]

While fierce opposition is expected from certain oyakata, there is now a distinct possibility of Asashoryu returning to Mongolia within this week.

who is that oyakata?

Oyakata is plural, as in "more than one Oyakata".

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

thanks , I have checked this site http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/eng/ozumo_meikan/kyo...ata/oyakata.php

Asa should go back home and heal emotionally. Only homeland, loving family and respecting society can heal his emotional wound from this betrayal.

I am almost certain that any mongolian and his family will advise hime come back Japan and continue to fight in sumo. If he doesn't come back for some reason, there will be question to remaining Mongolian sumo boys, even for Hakuho.

http://olloo.mn/modules.php?name=News&...7&sid=63862

Энэ талаар их аварга Асашёорюv Д.Дагвадоржийн ээж Х.Пvрэвбадамтай ярилцлаа.

Small interview with Asa's mom Kh. Purevbadam

Q- -Аваргын барилдах эрхийг хассан гэж дууллаа. Та сонсов уу?

(Our Champion (Yokozuna) is banned from wrestling, did you hear about it?)

A-Сонголгvй яахав дээ. Өчигдөр зурагтаар дэлгэрэнгvй ярьж байна лээ.

Yes, Yesterday it was shown (comprehensively) on TV

Q-Энэ шийдвэр танд ямар санагдав?

How do you feel about this decision (punishment)

A. -Яаж сайхан санагдах вэ дээ. Ер нь тэгээд сvмо бєхийн холбоо гэдэг нарийн дэг журамтай газар. Тэд дэгийнхээ л дагуу зохих арга хэмжээгээ авсан биз. Хамгийн гол нь хэн гуай ч байсан энэ шийдвэрийг хvндэтгэн хvлээж авах хэрэгтэй байх.

How can I think good about it. That Sumo Association have their own strict rules. I think they took measure (action) according their rule. Important is that anyone need to accept the decision (punishment) with respect.

Q-Аварга ямар зорилгоор эх орондоо ирсэн юм бэ?

What was the Champion's (Yokozuna's) reason of coming motherland?

A-Уг нь миний хvv башё дууссаны дараа эмч нарт vзvvлж магадлагаа авсан юм билээ. Тvvнийхээ дагуу Хужиртад сувилуулж нуруу, гарынхаа гэмтлийг эдгээх зорилготой ирсэн. Гэвч бөмбөг тоглолоо гээд дуудагдаад явсан байна лээ. Ээжтэйгээ ч уулзаж амжилгvй буцаад явсныг бодоход яаралтай ир гээ биз.

Хужиртад очоод эмнэж сувилуулаад явсан бол уг нь аштай байхгvй юу.

Actually, after basho, my son was checked by Doctor and had a doctor report. Following the doctor's report (recommendation), he was going to come to Khujirt* for healing of his arm and back. But he was called back to Japan after playing ball (soccer).

I think he returned such in hurry, My son even did not see me (his mom). If he arrived Khujirt and took rest /medical attention, it would have been much better.

Б.Сод. jouranlist B. Sod

2007-08-03 11:23:16

Зууны мэдээ 183/2631. Zuunii medee newspaper

Khujirt*- is well known hot spring resort in Uvurkhangai province, about 500 km west of Ulaanbaatar. Maybe their family is originally from the area.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although almost sacred status of Japanese sumo is already drastically changed among Mongolians, there are still many sumo fans wants to see Asa beat the records.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Kintamayama 47,194]

Asa should go back home and heal emotionally. Only homeland, loving family and respecting society can heal his emotional wound from this betrayal.

I agree, except for the "betrayal" part. Thank you for your translation of the article. If you are willing to translate more things from the Mongolian press, that would be very good for all of us and highly appreciated.

[Asashosakari 20,225]

I would find it highly ironic if Asashoryu was allowed to return to Mongolia and while there, he decided to retire after all.

[Feginowaka 53]

As an observer of the Sumo scene for many years, I also want to confess my opinion on this topic.

Those who know me, know that I uphold very much of traditions and Sumo is more than simply sport and results.

Therefore my view is quite conservative on certain incidents.

fact 1: Asashoryu did something that he shouldn't have done and that he also regrets

fact 2: he and his oyakata have been fined/punished appropriate

In this situation I expect that a "normal" rikishi accepts the punishment und that he behaves accordingly (like Toki, Roho, Kyokutenho, etc.).

But from a Yokozuna there can be expected more accordingly to his rank.

Yokozuna is not only a name like world champion or leader of world ranking, it's a honorary title which will be given.

That not only needs extraordinary performances (results), but also appropriate behavior, repect and dignity.

If a Yokozuna can't cope with such a punishment and breaks down like Asashoryu apparently does, he is not worthy of that rank.

A Yokozuna should stand above all things and behave respectively.

Either he accepts such a punishment and behave like what is expected or he has to bear the cosequences if he can't deal with it.

With such a reaction he might have lost his face even for many Japanese and has trampled the rank of a Yokozuna under foot another time.

Now he irrevocable has lost even the last bit of respect that he had for me (after the dishonorable foot kick against Dejima injured foot years ago there was not much respect left for him anyway...)

[madorosumaru 7]

This is really getting curious. Takasago Oyakata held a press conference and said, "The doctor from yesterday diagnozed Asashoryu's condition not to be depression but acute stress disorder. He said it was necessary to settle the yokozuna down and observe him for a couple of days." The doctor had told the oyakata that "it would be best if [Ryu] was hospitalized, but that wouldn't be such an easy thing to do."

The oyakata said he planned to have Asashoryu continue to rest and recuperate. As for Ryu's return to Mongolia, the oyakata said, "That's not something that I would want to bring up myself."

However, Dr. Yoshida, chief of the Sumo Medical Clinic who accompanied the psychiatrist to Ryu's apartment, said, "The yokozuna remained expressionless and didn't utter a word. It doesn't appear that he is eating properly. If he goes home to Mongolia, at least he will get out of the current rut." This is what Takasago wants to hear. Someone associated with the Kyokai bringing up the subject of Ryu's return to Mongolia.

A decision must be made by the Kyokai to determine what course of treatment would be appropriate for the yokozuna. However, a Kyokai source said Kitanoumi Rijicho is out of town on vacation until the 8th. They could have a telephone conference before then but it is not for sure at this time.

Meanwhile, Mr. Yoshinobu Shimamura, former minister of agriculture and fisheries, paid a visit to the yokozuna. He has been a friend of Ryu's for about three years ever since the minister was involved in a project on Mongolia. When he oresented Ryu with some top quality Osaka sushi, the yokozuna thanked him and said, "I'm sorry to cause you so much trouble."

The large living room was neat but the drapes were drawn. Mr. Shimamura said, "There was no light on and Asashoryu was just sitting motionless on the sofa with his eyes closed. He was wearing a black T-shirt and his mage was in disarray. There was not even the smell of bintsuke. I've never seen the yokozuna like that."

The TV was on but Ryu hardly glanced at it. When he had his eyes open, he would be staring at a fixed point. The minister added, "From my experience, I think I am able to tell about a person's inner thoughts by his appearance and behavior. I felt the yokozuna was in a bad way. I was there for about 30 minutes but each 10 minutes seemed like two or three hours."

Mr. Shimamura mentioned the time Ryu handed part of his kensho envelopes to the retiring tate-gyoji, Kimura Shonosuke. "There aren't many yokozuna like that," he said. "That was [the epitome of] Japanese culture. Do they have to keep confining him like this? If a [fine] young man gets damaged [because of this], it would bring up the question of humanity. Even the two basho suspension is pretty rough. How do you expect a person to gambarize in keiko without any goal. Even if he is from a foreign country, he is still a [human being]. Does our national sport still possess such backward thinking?"

[Andreas 0]

I wonder how his wife reacts to all this. This would be the time when he needs her support most but of course You wouldnt read about this in the media.