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Would it possible for the listing of a rikishi's heya on his bio page to be a link that leads to all the wrestlers currently in his heya? I realize there are other ways to access that info but it would be a really convenient extra that I know i would use regularly.

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Considering the rikishi profile information is supposed to be independent of time, I'd find that rather awkward. What good would it do to have, say, a link to the current Tatsunami-beya deshi on Futabayama's profile page? A feature like that has to "work" in all contexts, not just the ones in which you'd find it helpful.

In any case, this information can very easily be accessed from the banzuke page, or from the rikishi search, or from the query. And all of them with a multitude of customizable options. (I wonder if you and the three people who've "liked" your post could even agree on the preferred output format for the link you're proposing...)

Edited by Asashosakari

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I just saw your other comments, Asasho. I was thinking active wrestlers could have the link to a query for all active wrestlers in their heya and when they retire that link could be changed to a query to every wrestler that has been in that heya.

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In any case, this information can very easily be accessed from the banzuke page, or from the rikishi search, or from the query. And all of them with a multitude of customizable options. (I wonder if you and the three people who've "liked" your post could even agree on the preferred output format for the link you're proposing...)

For lazy people like us three likers, a ready-made link to the filtered banzuke would be great. (my 2 Yen)

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I just saw your other comments, Asasho. I was thinking active wrestlers could have the link to a query for all active wrestlers in their heya and when they retire that link could be changed to a query to every wrestler that has been in that heya.

The question is: What is that heya? If you click on a rikishi from Fujishima Beya will it show the former Musashigawa Beya or the former versions of Fujishima Beya? Thanks to the always recurring Oyakata names heya reemerge or sometimes are just renamed without having anything to do with the old heya. For older heya it is nearly impossible to know whether they have been resurrected or not as shutdowns have happened quite often in former times.

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The question is: What is that heya? If you click on a rikishi from Fujishima Beya will it show the former Musashigawa Beya or the former versions of Fujishima Beya?

Likewise, if you click on "Musashigawa-beya" for e.g. Shotenro, should it show an empty list or should it show the current set of Musashigawa-beya rikishi (which have nothing to do with Shotenro)? Or should only the latest heya name be linked? That would be awkward, too.

For lazy people like us three likers, a ready-made link to the filtered banzuke would be great. (my 2 Yen)

Here you go:

Arashio

Asahiyama

Asakayama

Azumazeki

Chiganoura

Dewanoumi

Fujishima

Hakkaku

Irumagawa

Isegahama

Isenoumi

Izutsu

Kagamiyama

Kasugano

Kasugayama

Kataonami

Kise

Kitanoumi

Kokonoe

Matsugane

Michinoku

Minato

Minezaki

Miyagino

Musashigawa

Nishikido

Oguruma

Oitekaze

Onoe

Onomatsu

Otake

Sadogatake

Sakaigawa

Shibatayama

Shikihide

Shikoroyama

Tagonoura

Takadagawa

Takanohana

Takasago

Tamanoi

Tatsunami

Tokitsukaze

Tomozuna

Just bookmark.

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I realize all this confusion arrives with all the issues you have raised, but the same confusion could arise with only having the stable name as well. And wouldn't a query create the same ambiguities? It might make an imperfect tool but it would be convenient.

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I realize all this confusion arrives with all the issues you have raised, but the same confusion could arise with only having the stable name as well. And wouldn't a query create the same ambiguities? It might make an imperfect tool but it would be convenient.

The point is that in a query (or by using a specific basho banzuke), you can take care of sorting out the ambiguities, while your suggestion expects the automation to magically guess your intentions/expectations. And those are unlikely to be identical to the expectations of some other person who clicks the same link. That's no way to design a front-end that is intended to work equally well for every user. Edited by Asashosakari

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Thanks for the trouble making the links though Asasho.

Again, points well made about the untenable-ness.

Edited by Asanomeshi

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For lazy people like us three likers, a ready-made link to the filtered banzuke would be great. (my 2 Yen)

Here you go:

....

Oh my. You didn't really think couldn't do that myself, did you??

The whole point of this discussion was about having a clickable heya name at the rikishi pages. Of course it's not necessary, you made that point very clear, but I still think it would be a nice feature, especially for people not that much into the nuts and bolts of the site.

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I realize now how difficult a heya link on rikishi pages would be, but it would be great to have that same list Asasho just made as a link (from the main menu?) on the reference site. Easy to ask since I am not the one doing the work of course...

Edited by Asanomeshi

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Oh my. You didn't really think couldn't do that myself, did you??

I know you can, I wasn't sure you were bothered enough to do it, though. Which in turn makes me question just how much you actually need/want such a feature...

The whole point of this discussion was about having a clickable heya name at the rikishi pages. Of course it's not necessary, you made that point very clear, but I still think it would be a nice feature, especially for people not that much into the nuts and bolts of the site.

Well then, let's ask Doitsuyama to implement that feature. However, unlike you I'd really rather have those links point to the rikishi search. Now what?

There are tons of additional capabilities I'd love the DB front-end to have, but I'm not feeling entitled enough to assume that adding them would actually improve the site, especially when there are already ways to achieve the same thing with minimal extra effort.

Maybe this is a "give a man a fish" vs "teach a man to fish" thing. I'd rather that people simply learn how to use the DB properly. (Perhaps we need a tutorial thread around here...)

Edited by Asashosakari

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There are links for the lazy and challenged under each heading, like Tochiazuma or All Foreign Rikishi, so the even more obvious heya link would be a convenient addition.

Edited by Asanomeshi

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I have a project which I call my "Heya A-Z" which sits on a back burner.

For anyone who has seen the annual rikishi directory, this will look a bit familiar. For anyone who hasn't seen it, it is a listing of the members of each heya according to rank. The heya themselves are listed in order of the seniority of the stable master. If you open the directory at a random page, you have to know whether the stable you are looking for has a more senior or less senior oyakata at the helm. Or, as long as you can read a bit of Japanese, you can go to the index at the back and search for the rikishi or staff member by name and find the page directly.

I thought it might be useful to produce a Romanised version of the directory in a simpler alphabetical order.

If you go to http://heyaaz.nagioff.com/ you can see the version I produced based on last year's directory. As it is easy once you have a database and a bit of software, I have produced multiple views of the same data. The links along the top represent the different views.

The heya view, with the heya listed alphabetically, is the default. Click on the heya of interest in the list at the left to go straight to its page.

The rikishi list has rikishi listed alphabetically within each of the divisions and across all divisions.

The other lists are oyakata, gyoji, yobidashi, tokoyama and "other staff" (wakaimonogashira and sewanin).

All rikishi (and staff members who used to be rikishi) have a direct link to the Sumo Reference database entry for the rikishi. You just click on the shikona at the top of the entry in the case of the rikishi, or in the case of an oyakata, wakaimonogashira or sewanin, click on the shikona where it says Former Yokozuna _Chiyonofuji_ for example.

[Most of the entries have pictures - the exceptions are rikishi who joined during the previous year but retired before the new directory was produced.]

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There are links for the lazy and challenged under each heading, like Tochiazuma or All Foreign Rikishi, so the even more obvious heya link would be a convenient addition.

Those are for demonstration purposes of the DB's capabilities, they're not intended to be a navigational aid.

My overall issue here is this: There are hundreds of ways of customizing and filtering the DB output, and I find it extremely strange to say that there's one way that is so important that it needs to be hardcoded. It might be important to you, but that's it. Ask 100 other people and they'll probably mention a couple dozen other outputs that they'd find more important to add.

In any case, here's a single-link version that might do what you're looking for: Link.

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I'm not being stubbornly insistent or anything I just thought it was a nice idea to have a prominent link. I others don't think so that is fine. I don't think in the least there is one way that is so important. Sorry if i came across so. I use a few of those demonstrations of the database's capability sometimes. I wasn't aware I was being educated on its admittedly impressive search capabilities.

Naganoyama's compiled info looks pretty interesting. I may check this out. I realize the kyokai has heya info pages too but they are lacking in a number of ways.

Edited by Asanomeshi

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For anyone who has seen the annual rikishi directory, this will look a bit familiar. For anyone who hasn't seen it, it is a listing of the members of each heya according to rank. The heya themselves are listed in order of the seniority of the stable master. If you open the directory at a random page, you have to know whether the stable you are looking for has a more senior or less senior oyakata at the helm. Or, as long as you can read a bit of Japanese, you can go to the index at the back and search for the rikishi or staff member by name and find the page directly.

I get that guide now and again. I always wondered why the order often got switched around, but I never thought to ask anyone about it. A very Japanese approach I must say. :-P As I said above I will take a look at your compiled heya info.

edit: I just took a look. I have a few friends who make my sumo hobby look like mild interest and they will start salivating when they see this. Amazing. If it's all right I am definitely telling a few people about this.

Edited by Asanomeshi

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I don't know who to contact about this directly so I'll put it here. At the end of the basho, all other makuuchi wrestlers appear to read correctly but Goeido is stuck at 6-7 and Kotoshogiku at 5-9, neither of which equal 15. I think those are the only two, in makuuchi at least.

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I don't know who to contact about this directly so I'll put it here. At the end of the basho, all other makuuchi wrestlers appear to read correctly but Goeido is stuck at 6-7 and Kotoshogiku at 5-9, neither of which equal 15. I think those are the only two, in makuuchi at least.

On the banzuke page, right? The yusho, jun-yusho and sansho information is also missing (but maybe this is normal and just takes a bit of time to update, i don't know.)

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I might have spotted out a tiny mistake in the database. Is this the right place to address such an issue or where should one report in such cases?

Anyway: The database gives Sadanoumis full shikona as Sadanoumi Kaname. However on the NSK website it is given as Sadanoumi Takashi. The Japanese Wikipedia also has him under さだのうみ たかし (Takashi) but his real name as かなめ (Kaname).

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I might have spotted out a tiny mistake in the database. Is this the right place to address such an issue or where should one report in such cases?

Anyway: The database gives Sadanoumis full shikona as Sadanoumi Kaname. However on the NSK website it is given as Sadanoumi Takashi. The Japanese Wikipedia also has him under さだのうみ たかし (Takashi) but his real name as かなめ (Kaname).

I'm about a year behind in digging up the "small stuff" changes (first names, hometowns etc.) and sending them to Doitsuyama, Sadanoumi's name is probably one that's been changed somewhat recently. I'll try to get to it in the upcoming intra-basho period, the backlog has started to annoy me myself lately.

(Tamanaogijima, I hope you're still collecting the printed banzuke - I think I missed my Kyushu or Hatsu download so I'll need your assistance in assigning some changes again.)

I don't know who to contact about this directly so I'll put it here. At the end of the basho, all other makuuchi wrestlers appear to read correctly but Goeido is stuck at 6-7 and Kotoshogiku at 5-9, neither of which equal 15. I think those are the only two, in makuuchi at least.

That's been an intermittent issue during the basho, bout results getting tracked individually but not in a rikishi's overall record; see Games Bugs thread over in Sumo Games. Looks like Doitsuyama has kicked the DB now, it's fixed for all affected rikishi (which was mainly juryo guys the last couple of days).

The yusho, jun-yusho and sansho information is also missing (but maybe this is normal and just takes a bit of time to update, i don't know.)

I'm pretty sure Doitsuyama has to add that by hand.
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Just to add: The Sadanoumi Kaname -> Takashi change took place for Nagoya 2013.

Edit: It came on the heels of back-to-back-to-back MKs, and since then he's had six straight kachikoshi. One for the "sometimes trying to change your luck actually works" file.

Edited by Asashosakari
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Just to add: The Sadanoumi Kaname -> Takashi change took place for Nagoya 2013.

Edit: It came on the heels of back-to-back-to-back MKs, and since then he's had six straight kachikoshi. One for the "sometimes trying to change your luck actually works" file.

Thanks, it's in the DB now.

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Looks like Doitsuyama has kicked the DB now, it's fixed for all affected rikishi (which was mainly juryo guys the last couple of days).

There are still some issues to be fixed, see Shosei for instance (as mentioned by Fukurou at Banzuke Surfing).
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