Videos of July 2006 Nagoya Basho

[Hananotaka 8]

The issue stems from the second I try to reproduce those goods for personal profit, or distribute that intellectual property.

An important point. Some mistakenly believe that as long as they aren't receiving money for it, it's not illegal. But distribution is the problem.

[_the_mind_ 0]

The issue stems from the second I try to reproduce those goods for personal profit, or distribute that intellectual property.

An important point. Some mistakenly believe that as long as they aren't receiving money for it, it's not illegal. But distribution is the problem.

right and the point of most of this thread is about reproducing the feed and making movies for people to see online. how many of the people reproducing these movies are making proffit? i bet none, or very few. info-sumo doesnt charge and neither does dale. so i mean i dont see the big deal about them doing what they do. they reproduce it for informational purposes.

[Kintamayama 47,194]

If I were to obtain blueprints of a Chevy V8 engine, and build one in my garage, nobody would be the wiser, and while I would be guilty of copyright infringement (or more likely something involving industrial espionage, but keeping this semi-simple), not many people would care about me making that engine in my garage for kicks. Even if I did the same with the body, and the tires, making them all myself, nobody would care much methinks.

But if then, I would build myself a small shop and sell, say 1000 cars and call them "Thelonius Monk"? A quick look under the hood would immediately tell the tale, no?

[Hananotaka 8]

The issue stems from the second I try to reproduce those goods for personal profit, or distribute that intellectual property.

An important point. Some mistakenly believe that as long as they aren't receiving money for it, it's not illegal. But distribution is the problem.

right and the point of most of this thread is about reproducing the feed and making movies for people to see online. how many of the people reproducing these movies are making proffit? i bet none, or very few. info-sumo doesnt charge and neither does dale. so i mean i dont see the big deal about them doing what they do. they reproduce it for informational purposes.

That's still distribution, and still illegal.

[Kintamayama 47,194]

Interesting thread.. My take:

1. Any way we look at it, reproducing any video that belongs to anyone (copyrighted, and these are copyrighted, no doubt about it) is illegal.This goes for online articles, pictures, etc.., even if the pictures are linked to the original. As for translations, well, I'm not sure, but I think legally, they are illegal.

They are. As are AMVs. The copyright for such derived works is only valid if they are authorized by the original copyright holder. At least in the U.S. I suggest everyone engaged in such activity check out the copyright laws of their own country as well as the country of the source material.

So I can go to jail? Can I be arrested for this? OMG!!

[Sakana 46]

Maybe I should have add a little thing : my explanation was based on French legislation and on things like writing, cinema, music (intellectual materials). So, in the end, it was right only with French Law' eyes and it doesn't fix the issue. I didn't want to argue only about copyright idea. My purpose was to explain that Info-Sumo webmaster could feel stolen (ok, my english is not good here). Where is the meaning of buying "NHK satellite feed" and record videos to propose it to sumo fans (and not only french speakers) if somebody puts this work on YouTube without having asked the webmaster ? It's just a question of 'respect'. (That was the sense of "netiquette" Info-Sumo mentionned) I know that nobody except NHK/NSK has the copyright (just to close the copyright's point).

Now this discussion has no end, because it can't have one...

(off-topic : Thelonius Monk... mmh, it sounds good (Chucking salt...))

[Hananotaka 8]

Interesting thread.. My take:

1. Any way we look at it, reproducing any video that belongs to anyone (copyrighted, and these are copyrighted, no doubt about it) is illegal.This goes for online articles, pictures, etc.., even if the pictures are linked to the original. As for translations, well, I'm not sure, but I think legally, they are illegal.

They are. As are AMVs. The copyright for such derived works is only valid if they are authorized by the original copyright holder. At least in the U.S. I suggest everyone engaged in such activity check out the copyright laws of their own country as well as the country of the source material.

So I can go to jail? Can I be arrested for this? OMG!!

It's the risk we all take, my friend. (Whistling...)

10 Myths About Copyright

Berne International Copyright Convention

Article 8

Authors of literary and artistic works protected by this Convention shall enjoy the exclusive right of making and of authorizing the translation of their works throughout the term of protection of their rights in the original works.

Ozumo magazine could nail my ass but good if they wanted to. Not that I think they'll ever want to...

[Hananotaka 8]

Maybe I should have add a little thing : my explanation was based on French legislation and on things like writing, cinema, music (intellectual materials). So, in the end, it was right only with French Law' eyes and it doesn't fix the issue. I didn't want to argue only about copyright idea. My purpose was to explain that Info-Sumo webmaster could feel stolen (ok, my english is not good here). Where is the meaning of buying "NHK satellite feed" and record videos to propose it to sumo fans (and not only french speakers) if somebody puts this work on YouTube without having asked the webmaster ? It's just a question of 'respect'. (That was the sense of "netiquette" Info-Sumo mentionned) I know that nobody except NHK/NSK has the copyright (just to close the copyright's point).

I can appreciate Info-sumo's perspective, and I'm a fervent believer in intellectual property rights. OTOH, this is how I, personally, feel about the things I've put out there for the sumo community. As long as my name's attached, I don't care who uses it, where they use it*, or if they ask me or not. I put it out there so that the largest number of sumo fans can see it. I'm dancing on the wrong side of the copyright line as it is, so why draw a hardline on things? As long as the translation is credited to me, and the original material is credited to the original writer, it's all good.

*Within reason. The "respect" issue I don't feel much sympathy for, but the fear issue I can relate to. Keeping things within the relatively insular sumo fan community is one thing. Putting things up on huge mass-traffic sites is higher-profile than I'd like. In that situation, I would certainly politely ask the person to remove it from the mass-traffic site, as keeping a low profile is my only saving grace. I would not, however, cut off everyone else until the person complied.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 210]

I just like sumo videos. Illegal or not. I would settle for Kyokai's feed only but all else is extra and cool. It is true that distribiution and non-profit making copyright violations can be harmful but still.. Sumovideos are a very good thing.

Kyokai's decision to stop showing juryo and makushita feed was peculiar. Unless it really was some kind of burden to Kyokai to have the cameraman there early during makushita, then it is like "screw you sumofans with no NHK satellite" decision. If some person was checking the teeth of a gift horse and sent Kyokai some harsh words about the quality of the video and that was the trigger for cancelling the lower divisions' feed, then Kyokai has some small-minded people who should be demoted to jonokuchi of humanity. Punishing a big group because of single or small number of people is rather childlish and tells a great deal of any person. It is like a shit for brains professor human once started badmouthing and scolding the remaining 5 students when 4 had left his unprepared and no-good presentation. Logical? I asked the professor in rather harsh words why is he targeting us since we still remain in the damn classroom. He just stood there in silent fury and perplexion. It was funny. I wanted to tell that story here because it is funny. Baka kyouju.

Kyokai, if you read this, bring back juryo and makushita onegaishimasu. We love those! Aishiteiru! Namahousou bideo wo saikai shite hoshii. Fooramu no baboonu wo kamawanaide.

[Mark Buckton 1]

Some of this may come to a head in the next few months as there is one non-Japanese business individual looking to secure foreign broadcast rights (although on what scale I don't know yet).

I think he is American, definitley knows his sumo given his background so we'll see if he is successful.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

For those who worry they are losing access to sumo videos while one particular provider pouts, Google is your friend (Whistling...)

[SalParadise 0]

But if then, I would build myself a small shop and sell, say 1000 cars and call them "Thelonius Monk"? A quick look under the hood would immediately tell the tale, no?

Then you would not longer simply be building a car from blueprints in your garage, now would you? Using the blueprints for personal profit, distributing the blueprints, or distributing things built from the content of those blueprints are all no-nos. Building the thing with blueprints in the first place, even copied ones, is a no-no, but because of the overall lack of harm and the overall cost of pursuing a suit against you, well, it just ain't worth it.

And you cannot be put in jail for making an AMV. You can be sued. There is a difference. The people prosecuted by the MPAA or whatever the music folk were called were forced to pay fines -- not go to jail. That's why it's not very heavily prosecuted -- the cost of prosecution is a lot higher than the benefit of prosecuting all the offenders. Major prosecutors generally violate criminal law somewhere along the lines, or are easy enough to find and screw that the costs are reduced, and tossing in a few more small-fry to scare the average person away from file sharing is the way they operate. I'm sure they have a business model working for them somewhere in a back room.

These are the people who made American Idol contestants into money-making artists, after all. I think they know their economics pretty well.

[Kintamayama 47,194]

And you cannot be put in jail for making an AMV. You can be sued. There is a difference. The people prosecuted by the MPAA or whatever the music folk were called were forced to pay fines -- not go to jail.

What happens if you are not able or refuse to pay the fines? I've read of more than few who refused, but never found out what their "punishment" was..

[Takanorappa 97]

What happens if you are not able or refuse to pay the fines? I've read of more than few who refused, but never found out what their "punishment" was..

I, too, was wondering the same... Though, I suppose in a case involving a "Thelonious Monk", I would guess they might be punished with a "Melodious Thunk". (Whistling...)

[Asojima 2,874]

For those who have no idea what a Thelonius Monk is, Kinta has a funky T shirt that he was trying to sell last year. ;-)

[Takanorappa 97]

For those who have no idea what a Thelonius Monk is, Kinta has a funky T shirt that he was trying to sell last year. B-)

...or, you could get info on TM by doing a youtube search on "Thelonious". :-P :-/ Though, I'd try this Thelonious Monk website, instead. It has links where you can buy his music. No copyright issues here, except maybe for the cover art. ;-)

(fuzzy memory) BTW - wasn't that a John Lennon T-shirt? B-)

Edited August 1, 2006 by Takanorappa

[Asojima 2,874]

...or, you could get info on TM by doing a youtube search on "Thelonious". B-) :-P Though, I'd try this Thelonious Monk website, instead. It has links where you can buy his music. No copyright issues here, except maybe for the cover art. :-/

(fuzzy memory) BTW - wasn't that a John Lennon T-shirt? B-)

It occurred to me that the number of non-geriatric members who would recognize the works of Thelonious would be even lower than the number who recognized the face on the shirt. ;-)

[Jakusotsu 6,390]

It occurred to me that the number of non-geriatric members who would recognize the works of Thelonious would be even lower than the number who recognized the face on the shirt. ;-)

Might be true. I know him, but I'm strongly heading for the wheelchair with my 37 summers... :-/

[Hidariashiyama 0]

T. Monk...

is that some kind of obscure rock band from Europe?

[Tameiki 185]

For those who worry they are losing access to sumo videos while one particular provider pouts, Google is your friend ;-)

That's all very nice, but I am now left with a slight problem: a good connexion at work with a firewall that prevents me frome accessing torrents sites (as well as the NSK streaming) and a low ADSL connexion at home that makes it unrealistic to downoload (and store) files that are between 500M and 1G. This is why I have been more than appreciative of the editing work of the webmasters at banzuke.com or info-sumo.net.

I will more than likely indulge in the Sumonow DVDs, but it is more interesting to watch the bouts at the time they are being discussed in this forum than weeks later.

Finally, I don't think there is anything to say about copyright issues, yet the only legal way to access the NHK broadcasting of the Basho where I live is to subscribe to JSTV for a -modest?!- monthly fee of

[Takanorappa 97]

T. Monk...

is that some kind of obscure rock band from Europe?

Now, shouldn't you know that? After all, I'm fairly certain that you fit in that "geriatric members" category. ;-)

[SalParadise 0]

And you cannot be put in jail for making an AMV. You can be sued. There is a difference. The people prosecuted by the MPAA or whatever the music folk were called were forced to pay fines -- not go to jail.

What happens if you are not able or refuse to pay the fines? I've read of more than few who refused, but never found out what their "punishment" was..

To the best of my knowledge, debtor prisons are a thing of the past, at least in the US. Were you to be incapable of paying the balance of what you owe after being successfully sued, you could declare bankruptcy, which would not be in the best interest of the person suing, so likely they'd make it semi-reasonable (unless the money isn't the issue as much as the principle, in which case they could pursue massive damages to set an example, even if they lose money over the whole process)...