Mainoumi in Film

[Jonosuke 28]

A film directed by Rob Marshall and produced by Steven Spielberg, Memoirs of a Geisha, is to open next month at theaters across North America and Japan. In the film among the cast including Ziyi Zhang, Michelle Yeoh and Ken Watanabe, is former Komusubi Mainoumi who will be appearing as a sekitori named Miyagiyama.

Mainoumi travelled to Hollywood last December with a former gyoji Shonosuke Kimura to shoot a dohyo scene for the film. "Honestly I was as nervous as I was competing in front of an emperor . But I am really looking forward to seeing how the whole film will turn out," Mainoumi said.

The film is a story of a poor girl sold to a geisha house in 1930 and how she struggles to become a legendary Geisha named Sayuri.

"Initially I thought the film was a bit of comedy but once I arrived at the set, I realized that they recreated the whole dohyo set as it was back in the early Showa Era with double dohyo rings, dohyo judges dressed in the period costume, old kensho banners from the time and the gyoji, everthing was so real. I was really impressed."

It took two hours to put on the hair piece and he has been kept asked detailed questions by the director, Rob Marshall. "More than I imagined, they have thoroughly researched about the sumo in Japan. I was really tensed during the actual filiming. I recalled those days when the emperor came to see us compete," Mainoumi said.

"I have not seen the completed picture yet. But I am really looking forward to seeing how the Japan, created by the people in Hollywood like Spielberg, will be like."

Official website: http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/memoirsofageisha/

Edited November 16, 2005 by Jonosuke

[sekihiryu 51]

I saw the trailer for this movie, I wasnt so enthused about it. Interesting choice of main actresses , two Chinese woman, I guess they couldnt find two Japanese actresses famous or popular enough.

[Mattjila 0]

I was wondering about the premiere at the Kokugikan. Are movies often shown there, or will there have to be some serious retooling of the space? And how will the acoustics be? A friend of mine once went to a concert at the Budokan and thought it might be the worst acoustics for music he'd ever heard.

I am also surprised that I can't find a single picture of the sumo set from the movie. You'd figure they would leak at least one.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Is there anyone who has seen the film (i.e. sneak preview; advance screening) and would be kind enough to comment strictly upon the sumo scene(s)? Please & thank you...

Edited December 4, 2005 by Otokonoyama

[Burainoan 0]

I guess they couldnt find two Japanese actresses famous or popular enough.

nobody who could speak half decent english or act is what i heard

Actually, all three of the lead female roles are Chinese - Zhang Ziyi, Li Gong and Michelle Yeoh. as for Japanese possibilities, let's see...there's Koyuki ("Last Samurai"), Amami Yuki (ex-Takarazuka, so definitely can dance, sing, etc.), Nakama Yukie, Terajima Shinobu, Muroi Shigeru, Kiki Kirin...just to name a few. and while none are anywhere near Yeoh's level of English - native, if i'm not mistaken - all could have been trained to at least the level that Zhang, Li, and oh, say, the Japanese actors speak. they didn't find because they didn't look. the simple fact is that while, say, Amami could almost certainly have played Sayuri at least as well as Zhang, neither she nor anyone else on that list (except maybe Koyuki) has any sort of significant name recognition with U.S. and European audiences, while the Chinese actresses are all major international stars. it was an economic decision, pure and simple.

funny thing is, i like Zhang, Li, Yeoh, Yakusho Koji, 29th Kimura Shonosuke and Mainoumi, but i'm not seeing this movie.

though i have to admit i wouldn't mind seeing a clip of the sumo segment someday....

[sekihiryu 51]

One name you missed is Norika Fujiwara, she speaks fluent English and is a former Miss Japan winner.

Her fame though is pretty much limited to Japan, though she did star in the movie China Strike force with Coolio.

[Fukurou 534]

I guess they couldnt find two Japanese actresses famous or popular enough.

nobody who could speak half decent english or act is what i heard

Actually, all three of the lead female roles are Chinese - Zhang Ziyi, Li Gong and Michelle Yeoh. as for Japanese possibilities, let's see...there's Koyuki ("Last Samurai"), Amami Yuki (ex-Takarazuka, so definitely can dance, sing, etc.), Nakama Yukie, Terajima Shinobu, Muroi Shigeru, Kiki Kirin...just to name a few.

Out of curiosity, how are Kyoka Suzuki and Yasuko Matsuyuki regarded as actresses? I know the latter has been (is?) on the idol circuit, but I've read some things in the past that sound as if they're rather well thought of, at least as far as TV goes.

and while none are anywhere near Yeoh's level of English - native, if i'm not mistaken - all could have been trained to at least the level that Zhang, Li, and oh, say, the Japanese actors speak. they didn't find because they didn't look. the simple fact is that while, say, Amami could almost certainly have played Sayuri at least as well as Zhang, neither she nor anyone else on that list (except maybe Koyuki) has any sort of significant name recognition with U.S. and European audiences, while the Chinese actresses are all major international stars. it was an economic decision, pure and simple.

Being as she's from Malaysia, I don't think Yeoh is a "native" English speaker (or is she? I find I'm not certain what the official language of Malaysia is, or even if there is one). A couple interesting tidbits I learned from her bio is that she has a BA degree from the Royal Academy of Dance in London (went there as a teenager), and is also a former Miss Malaysia. I also read that this star of HK cinema doesn't speak much Chinese - she had to learn her lines phonetically for Crouching Tiger

funny thing is, i like Zhang, Li, Yeoh, Yakusho Koji, 29th Kimura Shonosuke and Mainoumi, but i'm not seeing this movie.

though i have to admit i wouldn't mind seeing a clip of the sumo segment someday....

I'm going to see it as I enjoyed the book, but I'm sure it'll come across as a "chick flick" (with the "Spielberg stamp of approval")

[Burainoan 0]

Well, that list was off the top of my head, so i guess i missed a few. i wouldn't include Fujiwara though, because whatever her English level, she is a lousy actress from what i've seen (including CSF). Suzuki Kyoka especially i should've remembered; she likely could've been very good in the Li Gong role. Matsuyuki Yasuko i'm not so familiar with, at least by name, so i really can't say for sure.

Fukurou, did you also happen to read Iwasaki Mineko's book? she was very upset with Golden for revealing her identity - confidentiality was a condition of her agreeing to be interviewed for it, and she was planning to sue him at one point (not sure if she did) - and by his inaccuracies and supposedly playing up and exaggerating (and in some cases, creating) salacious details, so she wrote her own as a kind of rebuttal.

[Fukurou 534]

Well, that list was off the top of my head, so i guess i missed a few. i wouldn't include Fujiwara though, because whatever her English level, she is a lousy actress from what i've seen (including CSF). Suzuki Kyoka especially i should've remembered; she likely could've been very good in the Li Gong role. Matsuyuki Yasuko i'm not so familiar with, at least by name, so i really can't say for sure.

Matsuyuki was in 2 of the first 3 Japanese TV dramas I ever saw, so bad actress or not I have a bit of a soft place in my heart for her. For that matter, Kyoka Suzuki was in the same two programs, Kirakira Hikaru and Afurika no Yoru (the 3rd was the extremely sappy and satisfying With Love, featuring Norika Fujiwara, who was mentioned upthread, as a "complication" for one of the main characters). There's a photo and information about some of what Matsuyuki's been in at jdorama.com and it appears that her official website is here. (there's an English-language fansite for Kyoka Suzuki here).

Fukurou, did you also happen to read Iwasaki Mineko's book? she was very upset with Golden for revealing her identity - confidentiality was a condition of her agreeing to be interviewed for it, and she was planning to sue him at one point (not sure if she did) - and by his inaccuracies and supposedly playing up and exaggerating (and in some cases, creating) salacious details, so she wrote her own as a kind of rebuttal.

No, I didn't read that one. Have you read Liza Dalby's book(s) on her experiences as a geisha in Kyoto? An anthropologist, she's the only non-Japanese to have done that. The geisha knew what she was up to when they took her in and trained her.

Getting this slightly back onto topic, I don't recall Dalby mentioning a relationship between modern geisha and sumo. I do recall an episode of Iron Chef where the cheering section was filled with geisha, rooting on the challenger, though :)

Edited December 6, 2005 by Fukurou

[Sasanishiki 57]

I also read that this star of HK cinema doesn't speak much Chinese - she had to learn her lines phonetically for Crouching Tiger

Yes, but as I think all the leads were from HK cinema they would not be native (or necessarily fluent) Mandarin speakers anyway. I am presuming it was in Mandarin and that no-one was a native Mandarin speaker but stand to be corrected.

My point about Crouching Tiger is that I saw it as a movie almost directly for international (read Western) consumption rather than seeking a Chinese audience and then crossing over to the West. As such, the Chinese spoken, whether good or not, was really for exoticism rather than story-telling. I guess that is my take as a non-Chinese speaking Westerner. Anybody actually schooled up enough in Mandarin to give there take on it?

Anyway, how does this realte to Geisha? Well, the same principle applies. If it is made for a Western audience then an exotic Asian face is enough, regardless of where they are from. Sad but true!

[Zuikakuyama 1]

Zhang Ziyi is one of the worst actresses in China. She can't even speak English. She got her break from the famed Chinese director Zhang YiMou (the director of all the Gong Li art house films) by being his "girlfriend."

Michelle Yeoh can't speak Mandarin Chinese to save her own life. Listening to her in Crouching Tiger is pure torture. She is also incidentally the girlfriend of a big HK film producer. That was why she was able to get the part.

How about Miki Nakatani (of Ring fame) for playing one of the geishas. She also starred as a geisha (and wife of Rikidozan) in the Rikidozan movie made by Korea. In a recent film I saw of her, she spoke perfect English.

[Burainoan 0]

Zhang Ziyi is one of the worst actresses in China. She can't even speak English. She got her break from the famed Chinese director Zhang YiMou (the director of all the Gong Li art house films) by being his "girlfriend."

Michelle Yeoh can't speak Mandarin Chinese to save her own life. Listening to her in Crouching Tiger is pure torture. She is also incidentally the girlfriend of a big HK film producer. That was why she was able to get the part.

How about Miki Nakatani (of Ring fame) for playing one of the geishas. She also starred as a geisha (and wife of Rikidozan) in the Rikidozan movie made by Korea. In a recent film I saw of her, she spoke perfect English.

Actually, Li Gong was the (now very ex-)girlfriend in question; so far as i know Zhang Ziyi has never been connected romantically with Zhang Yimou. would be interested to hear if you have evidence to support that. though i will agree that i have not been especially impressed with her acting chops; Li is (or at least was) better.

from what i heard, Chow's and Yeoh's less-than-stellar Mandarin were a big part of CTHD's decidedly lukewarm reception in Asia, and i'm not gonna argue with a native speaker's judgement on that point anyway. (Blushing...) will debate on the GF point; Hollywood doesn't give a crap about any foreign movie producers unless they're looking to buy a movie or remake rights. i think it has more to do with the fact that she is one of about three marketable (in the U.S. and Europe) Asian actresses. guess who the other two are?

i've seen Nakatani in "Chaos [Kaosu]" and "Mibugishiden," and while i don't remember her *that* well, i think she did a pretty good job in what was otherwise a pretty crappy movie ("Chaos"), so i'll second that. actually, i think much of the female cast beyond the main three is (thankfully) Japanese, so it's possible she is, though IMDB doesn't list her.

[Reki 0]

I am also surprised that I can't find a single picture of the sumo set from the movie. You'd figure they would leak at least one.

Here's one from the trailer:

sorry that is so small (Blushing...)

[Jakusotsu 6,394]

Thanks @Reki for the pic (and a belated Welcome! by the way) (Whistling...)

It's good to see they constructed the roof over the dohyo with posts. Seems like they really cared for historical credibility there. Is the arrangement of the spectator rows accurate as well? Looks weird, more like a lecture hall or courtroom than today's kokugikan.

[Mattjila 0]

Yay, pic! Now a question for our scholars. What type of sumo should we see in the film if it is accurate? Was this the age of long, protracted matches (esp. as compared to today)? Or was it a throw/thrust quick style?

[Jonosuke 28]

Yay, pic! Now a question for our scholars. What type of sumo should we see in the film if it is accurate? Was this the age of long, protracted matches (esp. as compared to today)? Or was it a throw/thrust quick style?

Not sure about kimarites but the dohyo should have double rings and four poles - I don't remember when the dohyo judges got off the dohyo but one time they were on the dohyo as well.

[Jonosuke 28]

A friend of mine once went to a concert at the Budokan and thought it might be the worst acoustics for music he'd ever heard.

Just wondering about this - I have several albums that were actually recorded live on the Budokan and the sound isn't bad at all so I guess it has to do with where you sit...

[Kintamayama 47,226]

More:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051207/ap_en_...isha_backlash_3

[Burainoan 0]

And a local review....

Welcome to Kyoto, California

By KAORI SHOJI

Memoirs of a Geisha

Rating: * * (out of 5)

Japanese title: Sayuri

Director: Rob Marshall

Running time: 145 minutes

Language: English

Currently showing

It's a tough job but someone's gotta do it. It all strikes me as a bit perverse, though, having me -- a Japanese woman who spent part of her childhood in a hanamachi (geisha district) -- write a review of "Memoirs of a Geisha" (released in Japan as "Sayuri").

There are just so many things wrong with the whole package, which is plastered with kitschy oriental cliches. We're talking about a Chinese actress speaking in that stilted Hollywood Asian-English (immortalized by Mr. Yuniyoshi in "Breakfast at Tiffany's") in the role of a Japanese geisha during the Sino-Japanese conflict of the 1930s. It's hard to know how to handle this: go ballistic, start apologizing, giggle nervously or what?

Late into the movie, when American G.I.'s are in control of Kyoto, seasoned geisha Mameha (Michelle Yeoh) wonders out loud to her protege Sayuri (Zhang Ziyi): "What do we know about entertaining Americans?" This pretty much sums it all up. From start to finish, "Memoirs" is hot in pursuit of entertaining a U.S. audience, certain in the conviction that if it can wow the folks in America, it can wow the world.

And who better to helm such a project than Oscar-winning director Rob Marshall ("Chicago")? Marshall can slap show-biz extravaganza onto the screen like no other; he probably shouts "Give 'em the old razzle dazzle!" in his sleep. And to that end, most of what made Arthur Golden's original novel compelling has been trashed -- stuff like subtlety, historical context and detail. But most jarring of all is the plain-as-day, glaring disrespect for a foreign (as in non-U.S., and as such, incomprehensible) culture. Really, is super-entertainment so important as to justify the trampling of what made the story so fascinating in the first place? Well, according to "Memoirs" that's a resounding "Yeah!"

Marshall and his crew (and let's not forget that Steven Spielberg is the executive producer) never pause for breath as they bombard us with pathos, intrigue, fury, sex and passion. The capper is a geisha dance scene that's straight out of Broadway. Never mind that no young geisha in the prewar period would wear glitter eye-shadow and dance solo, on a stage with artsy blue lighting, her hair flowing hip and loose and her limbs contorting to snazzy, modern ballet movements.

In the same way, Marshall turns a renowned Kyoto hanamachi of the 1930s into a cacophonous, chaotic confusion that's more Chinatown, L.A. (or the Hollywood rendition thereof). According to the production notes, Marshall felt that the present-day Kyoto was too "modern," and so he created an impressively colossal geisha-district set in Southern California, complete with tile-roofed houses, wooden bridges and cobblestone streets.

Unfortunately, the whole thing reeks of a souvenir shop extravaganza, like they upended the shelves of Oriental Bazaar right onto the streets. There's just no regard here for hanamachi aesthetics that disdained all that was obvious, conspicuous or abundant; the atmosphere depended on how much was hidden and how much was subtly suggested. But apparently, that's no way to razzle-dazzle 'em.

All is not lost, though, for some of Asia's best actresses pull off top-notch performances. Zhang Ziyi is superb as the passive/aggressive Sayuri who was sold by her impoverished parents into an okiya (geisha house) at the age of 9 and, against all odds, flowered into the most celebrated geisha in Kyoto. Zhang adds a cold steeliness to her fragile, demure demeanor, which, of course, is the prerequisite trait of a true geisha. The way she can go from casting down her eyes, saying, "Do I please you?" to a wealthy client, to exchanging sarcasm gunfire with older rival Hatsumomo (Gong Li) is excellent.

But it's Gong who steals every scene she's in, decked out in punkish hairdos and fantastic avant-garde kimono garb that have no connection to historical reality, but look sizzling and, with Marshall-san at the helm, that's all that matters. Sayuri is likened to water ("You have eyes like the rain"), but Hatsumomo is all burning flames. She unleashes her fury against anyone who dares to cross her and is fearless about the consequences. Michelle Yeoh is also wonderful as ex-geisha queen Mameha, who takes Sayuri under her wing and coaches her on all aspects of the geisha aesthetics ("For us, pain and beauty always come side by side"). Mameha is, perhaps, the most thankless and difficult character to play, for she must mute her beauty and femininity in order to enhance Sayuri's. Yeoh is brave enough to go for camp. The night Mameha auctions off Sayuri's virginity to the highest bidder (a sleazy old doctor), she tells her despairing young disciple in a deeply profound tone, "Celebrate this moment, Sayuri. Tonight, all the lights of the hanamachi burn for you."

On occasion, "Memoirs" dips into the spirit of the original novel, which stressed, above all, that geisha were not prostitutes but "moving works of art in the floating world." In an age when very few women could find employment, becoming a geisha was practically the only "profession" available, and the okiya the only place where women could live and exist, independent of their families. An okiya functioned like any company, and a good geisha was the one who knew how to promote herself, worked hard at pleasing her clients and brought back the earnings (and connections) that would keep her colleagues and the mother-boss, "Okaasan" (played by a stunning Kaori Momoi), fed and clothed.

Being a geisha was a business, and a ruthless one at that. There was simply no room for concepts like equality, rights and ethics -- either a geisha was good at what she did, in which case she brought success and prosperity to the okiya, or she didn't, and ran the risk of starving. Momoi's Okaasan portrays this excellently -- forever balancing the books and worrying about funds, she makes it extremely clear that nothing with her is ever personal, but strictly business.

Still, "Memoirs" has too much that's hard on the eye (and mind), not least of all the love scenes between Sayuri and her protector, who goes by the name of Chairman (played by Ken Watanabe at his most insipid). It's one thing to see the city of Kyoto misrepresented, but when we're asked to believe that a much older Japanese businessman and a young geisha during the 1940s would engage in physical contact in broad daylight, standing under a willow tree in a Japanese garden . . . surely that was when the theater should have released some emergency oxygen masks from the ceiling to save us all from hyperventilating. I looked around to see if everyone else felt the same, but no. This being Japan, the audience was restrained, respectful, polite. If only the movie had some of the same qualities.

The Japan Times: Dec. 15, 2005

© All rights reserved

[Jonosuke 28]

And a local review....

Welcome to Kyoto, California

By KAORI SHOJI

You know this lady is the reason enough to subscribe to the Japan Times.

[Jonosuke 28]

personally i find her constant framing of subjects as something only japanese can understand tiresome and borderline racist.

I plead guilty to the former but I don't find anything racist about her review anywhere unless you are referring to her other articles I have not read.

[Jonosuke 28]

perhaps living here makes me over sensitive to that kind of nonsense but............

Well then what you may need is a bit of break....

oh...sorry that's a wrong word to use in the context.

Anyway have yourself a piece of fried chicken and strawberry shortcake as they seem to appear magically everywhere in Japan on Christmas. Happy holidays :-O

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

I sympathise with Nish...there is a pervasive view in Japan (one also expounded by many foreign residents) that foreigners can & will never be able to understand Japan/Japanese culture...

Many long-timers here have a deep appreciation, respect, and genuine fondness for the country, as well as a reasonably deep understanding. While these people will never be Japanese, IMO that doesn't disqualify them from being able to understand their adopted country.

It's even more frustrating when other ex-pats dish out that tripe...

[Asysanyama 0]

Don't know if it's not forbidden but...

There's a P2P DVDSCR of this movie already in the BitTorrent AND eDonkey protocols.

Here are the elinks for the last (eDonkey2000 and eMule clients):

Edit: Links removed.

My personal opinion about P2P is that it's only fair to download a copy in case you can't see this excellent movie in your country ('cause there's no distribution: actual or planned) (I am not worthy...)

Edited December 30, 2005 by Exil

[Exil 301]

Don't know if it's not forbidden but...

Strongly discouraged actions resulting in warning

1. Posting of requests and links to warez (illegal copies of binary material).

Please do not post such links. Some people might think we are participating in illegal file sharing.