Nagoya 2025 discussion (results)

[Bunbukuchagama 922]

39 minutes ago, Benihana said:

To me it looks like an old (and very good looking) man

But NSK is made of old men (not often good looking though)... 

[Kintamayama 46,752]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

You are just being stubborn. 

WHY WOULD THEY WANT A HUGE PLAYOFF? To make NHK run their broadcast for extra 30 minutes? Old people want their news. 

Because it's good for business. November 1996. 5 man 11-4 playoff- ratings shot up to the sky. True, there were a Yokozuna, three Ozeki and a Sekiwake, but excitement galore. And it's not so much that they wanted a 5 man playoff mathematically exactly  - - they wanted to widen the field of viable contenders even for one more day, thus giving all the 9-4 guys a theoretical hope and reason for living at least till tomorrow's bouts are over. You do remember, that I'm very much for not having the leaders' bout tomorrow, right?

[Kintamayama 46,752]

1 hour ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

Maybe they see doing it this way as a win-win-win.

• If both win, then day 15 is straight-up for the yusho.
• If only one wins, then he still has to beat the guy who's been running with him all the way to secure the yusho, plus everyone who gets to 11 wins on day 14 still has a chance. 
• If they both lose on day 14, then everyone at 11-3 has a shot. If they fought on day 14, then whoever won would be the only one with his fate in his own hands. And it's more spectator-friendly in general to have a situation where guys need to win to take the championship or make a playoff, as opposed to not lose.

As a wise man once said, much excite.

All correct, but if they don't do the Aonishiki- Kotoshouhou bout on senshuraku..

[Kintamayama 46,752]

18 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

But NSK is made of old men (not often good looking though)... 

I'm older than most of them and they look much older than me. Most of them.

[Reonito 1,747]

11 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Because it's good for business. November 1996. 5 man 11-4 playoff- ratings shot up to the sky. True, there were a Yokozuna, three Ozeki and a Sekiwake, but excitement galore. And it's not so much that they wanted a 5 man playoff mathematically exactly  - - they wanted to widen the field of viable contenders even for one more day, thus giving all the 9-4 guys a theoretical hope and reason for living at least till tomorrow's bouts are over. You do remember, that I'm very much for not having the leaders' bout tomorrow, right?

They couldn't do anything about that one though, as the two 11-3 leaders going into day 15—Musashimaru and Wakanohana—had already met on day 13. The best they could do was give both 10-4 opponents, who both won, along with 10-4 Kaio...

[Asashosakari 20,131]

I disagree with the premise that any significant amount of people actually wants to see a massive 11-4 playoff full of random guys to begin with, but even if I were to accept it, my rejoinder would be: As soon as the endorphin rush subsides, those same people will be thinking, "gawd, actually nobody really deserved to lift the cup this month".

[Godango 1,092]

It's really not hard to imagine a world where the powers that be say, ‘Hey, a huge playoff would generate some buzz’ — especially if we're looking at yet another hiramaku yūshō.

I'm not explicitly agreeing that's what's happening, but, as I have said before, Kinta-san has a history of this forum telling him he's wrong and then being proven right. 

Edited July 25 by Godango

[Asashosakari 20,131]

1 minute ago, Godango said:

It's really not hard to imagine a world where the powers that be say, ‘Hey, a huge playoff would generate some buzz’ — especially if we're looking at yet another hiramaku yūshō.

Because ozumo is in need of "buzz" in a year that has seen two yokozuna promotions?

[Reonito 1,747]

21 minutes ago, Godango said:

I'm not explicitly agreeing that's what's happening, but, as I have said before, Kinta-san has a history of this forum telling him he's wrong and then being proven right. 

That's fair, but if both leaders win and they aren't matched head-to-head, I'll eat my hat.

[Godango 1,092]

16 minutes ago, Reonito said:

That's fair, but if both leaders win and they aren't matched head-to-head, I'll eat my hat.

If they win, definitely. I believe the point being made was there is a path to a big playoff if they both lose tomorrow. And perhaps that's the thinking from a match-making perspective.

 

37 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Because ozumo is in need of "buzz" in a year that has seen two yokozuna promotions?

This was just an excellent burn, well done .

For real though, that actually kinda helps the case. 

"Dang, our new yokozuna are perceived as underperforming, but a huge playoff would keep the fans happy...". Continue the buzz, rather than dampen it. 

To be super clear, again, I'm not saying I believe this is what's happening, I'm not saying it isn't what's happening. I'm just sayin' use your imagination is all, it's not that farfetched an idea. Anyway you look at it they're holding out for day 15 for maximum yusho decision fun times.

Edited July 25 by Godango

[Reonito 1,747]

4 minutes ago, Godango said:

If they win, definitely. I believe the point being made was there is a path to a big playoff if they both lose tomorrow. And perhaps that's the thinking from a match-making perspective.

A number of possible reasons have been offered for why they aren't fighting on day 14, and we'll never know the rationale. But depending on the results, scheduling for day 15 could offer a choice between an option that guarantees a winner and one that leads to a playoff, and I know which one I'm betting on.

[MrGrumpyGills 171]

In my insignificant opinion, a playoff is (almost) always a good thing and the bigger, the better 
Random guys? Doesn't matter to me at all. In fact I love unpredictability and generally favour underdogs anyway.
And of course the winner of a playoff definitely deserves the yusho.

[WAKATAKE 2,758]

Even though Tamawashi is out of the race, hope they give him a shukun-sho if he gets double digits

[Kintamayama 46,752]

6 hours ago, Reonito said:

They couldn't do anything about that one though, as the two 11-3 leaders going into day 15—Musashimaru and Wakanohana—had already met on day 13. The best they could do was give both 10-4 opponents, who both won, along with 10-4 Kaio...

And I say, even if they can do it, don't let the two leaders face each other tomorrow. Won't happen probably, but the fact they didnt let them meet today was a small step towards that. Make it more interesting.

[Kintamayama 46,752]

5 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I disagree with the premise that any significant amount of people actually wants to see a massive 11-4 playoff full of random guys to begin with, but even if I were to accept it, my rejoinder would be: As soon as the endorphin rush subsides, those same people will be thinking, "gawd, actually nobody really deserved to lift the cup this month".

Possibly, but again, it's all subjective. I wouldn't say that and I'm people too..

[Kintamayama 46,752]

5 hours ago, Reonito said:

That's fair, but if both leaders win and they aren't matched head-to-head, I'll eat my hat.

And even if both lose, they will be matched, in all probability. Even if one wins and the other loses. Still, one can only hope.

[Kintamayama 46,752]

10 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Because ozumo is in need of "buzz" in a year that has seen two yokozuna promotions?

Ozumo is ALWAYS in need of a buzz. The two Yokozuna promotions, to some people, aren't exactly generating a lot of sympathy lately and their merit has yet to be proven. Yesterday's buzz wraps fish today. Everyone wants a fresh buzz.

Edited July 26 by Kintamayama

[Bunbukuchagama 922]

Well... Now when Kotoshoho yusho is becoming a reality, we should discuss the real mistake of the torikumi committee: why didn't they throw him to sanyaku earlier? I remember the O-gang getting sent all the way up on day 8 or 9 several basho ago; they were probably afraid of Onosato's possible low-rank yusho. But with Kotoshoho, they just didn't take him seriously till it was too late...

Edited July 26 by Bunbukuchagama

[Akinomaki 41,568]

Not fighting the underperforming sanyaku is not the problem, if Kotoshoho gets the yusho. He defeated the yokozuna, a strong sekiwake and the best komusubi. He won against Kusano and with a win over Aonishiki tomorrow, he would have beaten any strong opponent in the basho, execept the pudding - not pairing him with the Atami one is the real problem this basho.

Edit: sorry to forget the iron man, and not fighting Tamawashi

Edited July 26 by Akinomaki

[Hankegami 580]

Well, well, well. Quite the Day 14. I am not amused.

My boy Aonishiki got overpowered by villainous Kusano despite doing his best, with the result that a playoff is much on the cards for tomorrow. Even worse, Kirishima utterly failed to dispatch Tokushoryu Kotoshoho and his kawaii lips, giving him the sole lead. As @Akinomaki just wrote, 'shoho did everything very fine this basho, and would have earned his Cup fair and square. However, I am a bit down with this perspective, since I am still reluctant to perceive Kotoshoho as a future star. Yusho are about good stories for me, and I don't like the narrative here. Different issues with Kusano - he's too much dominant. I like dark horses better. Please don't get bothered by my complains, anyway. I am just bummed that my favorite narratives are slowly going down the drain.

30 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Well... Now when Kotoshoho yusho is becoming a reality, we should discuss the real mistake of the torikumi committee: why didn't they throw him to sanyaku earlier? I remember the O-gang getting sent all the way up on day 8 or 9 several basho ago; they were probably afraid of Onosato's possible low-rank yusho. But with Kotoshoho, they just didn't take him seriously till it was too late...

To be fair, I think few among us (and possibly among the shimpan also) considered Kotoshoho a serious contender before the very last days. It's much of a Tokushoryu situation - which in part also involved the otherwise the impossible-to-underestimate back-to-back Juryo Yusho winner Kusano. Everyone had eyes for Aonishiki and secondarily on Onosato - with Ichiyamamoto coming third. There's also the issue that's unfair to pit low-ranked rikishi against the joi "just to be sure", with the danger of hampering them from getting a good result. Few could foresee the likes of Kotoshoho, Kusano, and also Atamifuji going on a winning spree. That's not in the usual character of at least two of them.

Edited July 26 by Hankegami

[Akinomaki 41,568]

About Kotoshoho: not only a jun-yusho in the past, he was newcomer of the year when he entered makuuchi

[Akinomaki 41,568]

Looks like IYM won't even get a sansho, after a brilliant start. No kinboshi, no big kensho pack - he can't help that he's only an A-shadow 

[Bunbukuchagama 922]

2 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Looks like IYM won't even get a sansho, after a brilliant start.

This shoudn't be a surprise to anyone.

[Jakusotsu 6,320]

3 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

6 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Looks like IYM won't even get a sansho, after a brilliant start.

This shoudn't be a surprise to anyone.

The brilliant start was.

[Katooshu 3,464]

This is a great example of how fast sumo can change, and why it's important not to get tunnel vision. For the last week it had been Aonishiki mania, and all it took was 1 day for Kotoshoho to slip ahead and be the day 15 favorite. 

Final day matches are set, and we're getting Kotoshoho-Aonishiki, Kusano-Takayasu, Onosato-Kotozakura (guarantee that one unfolds like a jungyo bout)

Edited July 26 by Katooshu