Natsu 2025 discussion (results)

[Jakusotsu 6,188]

3 hours ago, Reonito said:

... but they'll probably get matched up day 10, unless the schedulers decide to delay it to keep up the suspense.

And that's exactly what happened - good guess!

[Igordemorais 78]

6 hours ago, warusawa said:

I don't understand those who were bored by watching the GOAT Hakuho. Bored by watching greatness. SMH.

I started watching sumo in 2012, there were so many up and coming stars and so many cool stories. Takanoyama had made it to Maegashira, Kisenosato was a young rising star. We had Myogiryu and stars like Baruto, Kotooshu, Kaio. And Hakuho just kept crushing everyone all the time. Veterans, superstars, up and comers. He was like this massive tree whose shade let no other tree gather sun and thrive. Yeah it was cool to see the GOAT do his thing but.... the happiest moment in all my sumo years was watching Harumafuji beat him in that HUGE match and finally become Yokozuna as well. 

[Jakusotsu 6,188]

Probably stupid question: is Mitakeumi currently the rikishi with the most strokes in his kanji?

[Kintamayama 45,974]

Nabatame and Mita in Juryo are both from Futagoyama beya. Until today, they had exactly the same win loss record. Exactly. That ended today. I thought you'd like to know. And Mita in Hebrew means bed. Kills me. Before that, Kise killed me. Kise in Hebrew is chair. I'm wondering what piece of furniture is next.

Edited May 19 by Kintamayama

[Kaninoyama 1,866]

Not only is Aonishiki killing it on the dohyo, his Japanese is fantastic for having only been living in Japan for about two years. 

[lackmaker 446]

1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

Nabatame and Mita in Juryo are both from Futagoyama beya. Until today, they had exactly the same win loss record. Exactly. That ended today. I thought you'd like to know. And Mita in Hebrew means bed. Kills me. Before that, Kise killed me. Kise in Hebrew is chair. I'm wondering what piece of furniture is next.

Wheelchair. For those nasty injuries.

[Gospodin 240]

OmG - the kubinage is back 

[Leoben 159]

How nice of Kirishima to sweep the dohyo with his face, such consideration.

[Gospodin 240]

29 minutes ago, Leoben said:

How nice of Kirishima to sweep the dohyo with his face, such consideration.

What would have been the winning technique if the call would´ve gone to Takerufuji ? Piledriver ?

[Koorifuu 1,079]

Kitanowaka v Kyokukaiyu was so fierce that Kyokukaiyu came out of the mess holding some poor spectator's handwritten paper sheets. 

[RabidJohn 1,943]

5 hours ago, Igordemorais said:

Christ on a cracker barrel, Onosato is going to make Yokozuna isnt he?
Has anyone ever even seen anything like it?
Is it possible that we got another Hakuho so soon after the GOAT?

I've a feeling Hakuho's records are safe for the time being, but it's an empirically observable fact that we've had a proper 20+ yusho dai-yokozuna for every decade in the 5bpa era: Taiho, Kitanoumi, Chiyonofuji, Takanohana, Asashoryu, Hakuho. 

We are due another. 

Yes, I have seen something like it. The way Onosato utilises his size and power reminds me a lot of early Akebono.

[Koorifuu 1,079]

Word of appreciation for Akua's yumitorishiki prowess. Just about the right amount of showmanship.

[Igordemorais 78]

28 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I've a feeling Hakuho's records are safe for the time being, but it's an empirically observable fact that we've had a proper 20+ yusho dai-yokozuna for every decade in the 5bpa era: Taiho, Kitanoumi, Chiyonofuji, Takanohana, Asashoryu, Hakuho. 

We are due another. 

Yes, I have seen something like it. The way Onosato utilises his size and power reminds me a lot of early Akebono.

 

He is going to beat Asashoryus record by a lot and will be the fastest race to Yokozuna in the 6 tournament era. This is huge.

[Leoben 159]

Does anyone get the feeling when watching Onosato that he's actually stronger than his size should make him? Oho and Atamifuji are not that much smaller than him, and neither of them can just run through people the way he does. And he does it without having to get down low to generate leverage. He can be standing completely upright and he will just power through opponents that are very strong in their own right. It makes me wonder if he's one of those freak athletes that have abnormally high muscle density.

[RabidJohn 1,943]

11 minutes ago, Leoben said:

Does anyone get the feeling when watching Onosato that he's actually stronger than his size should make him? Oho and Atamifuji are not that much smaller than him, and neither of them can just run through people the way he does. And he does it without having to get down low to generate leverage. He can be standing completely upright and he will just power through opponents that are very strong in their own right. It makes me wonder if he's one of those freak athletes that have abnormally high muscle density.

One of Bruce Lee's party pieces was sending big men flying backwards several metres into a chair with an apparently gentle shove to the chest.

He wasn't a big bloke, so it was a demonstration of how effective the coordinated application of effort can be.

Someone Onosato-sized doing sumo with similar coordination is going to look like... well, Onosato.

[Jakusotsu 6,188]

37 minutes ago, Igordemorais said:

He is going to beat Asashoryus record by a lot and will be the fastest race to Yokozuna in the 6 tournament era.

A bit of apples and oranges since Onosato started at Ms10. It's still valid, though, because it took Asashoryu 17 basho from Ms9 to get the rope while Onosato might make it in 13.

[Igordemorais 78]

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

A bit of apples and oranges since Onosato started at Ms10. It's still valid, though, because it took Asashoryu 17 basho from Ms9 to get the rope while Onosato might make it in 13.

Onosato will make it to Yokozuna with 9 tournaments in Makuuchi. Hakuho needed 21, Asashoryu needed 13. Its bananas.

[RaeucherLax 292]

6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Nabatame and Mita in Juryo are both from Futagoyama beya. Until today, they had exactly the same win loss record. Exactly. That ended today. I thought you'd like to know. And Mita in Hebrew means bed. Kills me. Before that, Kise killed me. Kise in Hebrew is chair. I'm wondering what piece of furniture is next.

Completely OT here but I think a "dresser" can be called Shida (if the translation tool is correct). Sounds like a possible Shikona to me at least.

[dingo 1,388]

Is Nishikigi going to end up makekoshi after starting 5-0? He still has time to stop the losing streak but it's heading worryingly in the same direction as last basho.

We're all praising Tamawashi for his ageless sumo but how about Sadanoumi, 38 and 6-3 up? Granted today he got lucky with Tochitaikai's heel going out first but still an amazing start.

After beating Hakuoho Meisei seems to have gained some confidence. Another good win today. 

Oho on the other hand has not been doing well after the initial high of beating the yokozuna. Either he's not in a peak shape or just finding it harder to be consistent in the joi. I hope he'll bounce back next basho as I love to watch him. 

Midorifuji's mid basho mawashi change hasn't helped him much. It's sad to see him racking up the losses but sumo is harsh. At this rate he'll get a break in juryo, perhaps that will give him time to regroup for another push in makuuchi. 

Kirishima literally face planted so hard after throwing Takerufuji that I cringed watching it. Maybe the gyoji and shimpan gave him the win out of compassion as his effort was top level. 

Tamawashi outpushed Daieisho, which usually is very difficult to achieve but it seems to me that Daieisho's power has been gradually declining after the start of the basho. Maybe he's tired but that takes nothing away from Tamawashi's good win. 

Onosato navigated Ura's trickiness carefully but confidently. He's getting better at putting his big frame to use for push-pull-push tactics which works very well for him this basho. Just hope he won't end up overrelying on it. 

Hoshoryu took on Ichiyamamoto very calmly, doing his yokozuna duty by staying in the yusho run. He still can put pressure on the front runners by continuing to win. The question is is he able to? 

[ViscountessNivlac 33]

43 minutes ago, Igordemorais said:

Onosato will make it to Yokozuna with 9 tournaments in Makuuchi. Hakuho needed 21, Asashoryu needed 13. Its bananas.

Onosato is much older - here are Hakuho's first nine tournaments after turning 23:

Edited May 19 by ViscountessNivlac

[Kintamayama 45,974]

1 hour ago, RaeucherLax said:

Completely OT here but I think a "dresser" can be called Shida (if the translation tool is correct). Sounds like a possible Shikona to me at least.

Wow, indeed..

[Sumo Spiffy 621]

3 hours ago, Leoben said:

Does anyone get the feeling when watching Onosato that he's actually stronger than his size should make him? Oho and Atamifuji are not that much smaller than him, and neither of them can just run through people the way he does. And he does it without having to get down low to generate leverage. He can be standing completely upright and he will just power through opponents that are very strong in their own right. It makes me wonder if he's one of those freak athletes that have abnormally high muscle density.

I think what we're seeing is a confluence of factors.

1. Onosato is in his mid-20s. If he became the exact same wrestler but struggled through the ranks from age 18 on, like Atami, Oho, and Kotozakura, we'd probably be saying "it's about time", not "wow, what a marvel". Maybe both.
2. Being new has limited pro-level injury issues. Kotozakura, especially, should be able to roughly match him in power, and they've had a good head-to-head. But Koto's knee, at minimum, is an issue Onosato currently doesn't have to deal with. Atami's two years younger, but much fluffier, and also has far more injury problems. We can include Takayasu if we spread the conversation to rikishi of whatever age.
3. Oho hasn't had any serious injuries (except for that busted eye socket), and he also has shown arguably the best capacity for matching Onosato in sheer power when things are clicking. His problem is that he's not all that good.
4. Perhaps most importantly, Onosato went to university and was able to apply whatever modern training techniques were available. I'd wager universities are ahead of many, if not most stables in this regard. If Takerufuji hadn't eaten two pretty serious injuries already, I don't think he'd be up with Onosato right now, but he'd be doing a far sight better than 3-6 at M4e. I forgot who it was who said that these young guys who lift all the weight have no balance, but once you can lift all the weight, now that strength is yours. You can figure out the balance part afterwards. Using your teens and early 20s to maximize physical capacity is a huge deal, and when you combine that with being the biggest dude in the division, it's not a shock that Onosato is shredding everyone now that he's worked out the kinks in his game.

I get why people are talking about his potential to be a dai-yokozuna and all that. If we mark that as ten yushos, he could very reasonably do that before he turns 28 (he turns 25 next month). Beyond that, though, it's going to depend on his ability to deal with injury. He's not nearly the wrestler the last five yokozuna were, but that's not an insult; he doesn't have to be. He has all the stat bonuses, so to speak, and he's learning to lean on them. But how much has that skill level developed when the time comes that his body no longer provides such a clear cut advantage? To what degree will he try to expand his game, even at the risk of losing matches he shouldn't lose along the way? Those are the long-term questions we can only wait for answers to.

 

[Tigerboy1966 1,539]

2 hours ago, dingo said:

We're all praising Tamawashi for his ageless sumo but how about Sadanoumi, 38 and 6-3 up?

Tamawashi and Sadanoumi are two of the four wrestlers who were in maku'uchi for the basho that got me back into sumo (Aki '14) and who are still there today. The other two survivors are Takayasu and Endo.

As I noted over on Trivia Bits, Sadanoumi holds the record for the most basho in the top division without making sanyaku. I'm still hoping that he will rack up a big score in one of those basho where the lower sanyaku/ top maegashira just collapse.. but I'm afraid that time is running out. He's a very classy performer and I will miss him when he leaves.

Edited May 19 by Tigerboy1966
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[Yamanashi 3,988]

8 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I'm wondering what piece of furniture is next.

Table is out, and sofa translates as "sofa", basically.  OTOH, if we could get a guy with the shikona Shul, we'd have the cute Shul-chan (desk)

[Tigerboy1966 1,539]

8 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I'm wondering what piece of furniture is next.

Well there is a makushita wrestler called Aron and   תָא is Hebrew for "locker" or "cupboard".

Edited May 19 by Tigerboy1966
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