Hokuseiho Out- Hakuho Demoted - Miyagino-beya Closing

[Andreas21 202]

Thank you, that's extremely well put.

I had a thought that the problem might be that there is only one predefined career path "oyataka".

For instance in professional football (soccer) top performers may choose to be coaches (Beckenbauer), youth coaches (Hrubesch),  club manager (Hoeneß), association chairmen (Platini), advisor (Ibrahimovic).

 

[Yamanashi 3,988]

1 minute ago, Andreas21 said:

Thank you, that's extremely well put.

I had a thought that the problem might be that there is only one predefined career path "oyataka".

For instance in professional football (soccer) top performers may choose to be coaches (Beckenbauer), youth coaches (Hrubesch),  club manager (Hoeneß), association chairmen (Platini), advisor (Ibrahimovic).

 

I think a lot of those roles are subsumed under the title "Oyakata", at least in the broadest sense.  There. are heya heads, there are coaches who don't run the heya, there are members of the various committees who do only that job, etc.  What gets precluded in this system is the place for the mediocre player who lacked elite physical talents but was an excellent coach.  In fields like baseball, football, American football, basketball, some of the greatest coaches never reached the kabu-worthy level as players.

[Churaumi 749]

As people say, "Those that can't do, teach." Few coaches in American leagues had distinguished athletic careers, and many never played pro sports at all. But many of those studied coaching in college and went pro in that field. 

The most important difference is coaches here are essentially contractors. They can move if things aren't working out at one team if someone else will hire them, even on the personal market. Lots of pro athletes have their own staff of coaches and trainers to keep them at the top of their game.

Not to derail things, but a quick question to those who know...do rikishi ever do that? Have private coaches, trainers, nutritionists, sports psychologists, etc? Never seen reference to one on the heya videos on YouTube I've watched, nor do I remember mention of it in these hallowed halls.

[RabidJohn 1,944]

I really don't trust my memory these days, but wasn't Kisenosato's sudden adoption of prebout ringside face-pulling the result of him having had dealings with a sports psychologist?

[dingo 1,388]

1 hour ago, Churaumi said:

 private coaches, trainers, nutritionists, sports psychologists, etc?

I remember reading that the top rikishi (ozeki, yokozuna) definitely have access to almost all of them, perhaps with the exception of sports psychologists. Maybe makuuchi can also afford some of these services. Everyone else seems to depend on oyakata and I haven't seen much proof that it's common to hire outside help like that. 

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

2 hours ago, Churaumi said:

As people say, "Those that can't do, teach." Few coaches in American leagues had distinguished athletic careers, and many never played pro sports at all. But many of those studied coaching in college and went pro in that field. 

The most important difference is coaches here are essentially contractors. They can move if things aren't working out at one team if someone else will hire them, even on the personal market. Lots of pro athletes have their own staff of coaches and trainers to keep them at the top of their game.

Not to derail things, but a quick question to those who know...do rikishi ever do that? Have private coaches, trainers, nutritionists, sports psychologists, etc? Never seen reference to one on the heya videos on YouTube I've watched, nor do I remember mention of it in these hallowed halls.

An open system vs. a closed one.

NSK is more akin to a medieval guild than to a modern sports league. Exclusivity is at its core.

[Churaumi 749]

3 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

I really don't trust my memory these days, but wasn't Kisenosato's sudden adoption of prebout ringside face-pulling the result of him having had dealings with a sports psychologist?

That rings a bell.

[maglor 125]

5 hours ago, Churaumi said:

As people say, "Those that can't do, teach." Few coaches in American leagues had distinguished athletic careers, and many never played pro sports at all. But many of those studied coaching in college and went pro in that field. 

The most important difference is coaches here are essentially contractors. They can move if things aren't working out at one team if someone else will hire them, even on the personal market. Lots of pro athletes have their own staff of coaches and trainers to keep them at the top of their game.

Not to derail things, but a quick question to those who know...do rikishi ever do that? Have private coaches, trainers, nutritionists, sports psychologists, etc? Never seen reference to one on the heya videos on YouTube I've watched, nor do I remember mention of it in these hallowed halls.

Akebono I believe did some things like this, haven't read his biography in a while so don't remember exactly

[Bunny 10]

I remember watching a biography on Ama where he talked about becoming dissatisfied with only being an Ozeki and hired a private coach from Mongolia to go for the brass ring.

[Kaninoyama 1,866]

On X/Twitter, ex-Toshinoshin posted a 6-minute-long video in Japanese criticizing the Kyokai for holding Hakuho to one standard while sweeping similar problems under the rug for other oyakata & their heya. He expressed his dismay & disbelief that Hakuho was now out of the sumo organization praised Hakuho for being the one who kept sumo in the spotlight during his career. And ended by criticizing those oyakata who have reached retirement age and opt to remain in sumo when they should retire and hand over their kabu to the many younger oyakata in waiting. 

Edited June 5 by Kaninoyama

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

6 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

On X/Twitter, ex-Toshinoshin posted a 6-minute-long video in Japanese criticizing the Kyokai for holding Hakuho to one standard while sweeping similar problems under the rug for other oyakata & their heya. He expressed his dismay & disbelief that Hakuho was now out of the sumo organization praised Hakuho for being the one who kept sumo in the spotlight during his career. And ended by criticizing those oyakata who have reached retirement age and opt to remain in sumo when they should retire and hand over their kabu to the many younger oyakata in waiting. 

Has he criticized Kasugano for the golf club incident? 

[Gospodin 240]

This is just sad . Yes Sumo and all, but isn´t it time to follow the rest of the world and abandon "at his Majesty´s pleasure" concerning formal and informal punishment codes ?

[Gospodin 240]

18 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

An open system vs. a closed one.

NSK is more akin to a medieval guild than to a modern sports league. Exclusivity is at its core.

No need to get back to the middle age. Today there are countless organizations/societies that have co-opting as a fundamental part. Start with Rotary, or Lions Club. 

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,281]

https://www.nikkansports.com/m/battle/sumo/news/202506060001822_m.html
 

Something something akio-San maybe is or is not going to be involved with ama sumo soon along with Hakuho . Maybe we will see a strong Toyota corporate team? Is the sponsorship of parade car already done and dusted? I wonder if NSK thought they just be dealing with a paper cult like Takanohana and maybe aren’t ready for this kind of back blast.

Edited June 6 by Tsuchinoninjin

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

2 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

https://www.nikkansports.com/m/battle/sumo/news/202506060001822_m.html
 

Something something akio-San maybe is or is not going to be involved with ama sumo soon along with Hakuho . Maybe we will see a strong Toyota corporate team? Is the sponsorship of parade car already done and dusted? I wonder if NSK thought they just be dealing with a paper cult like Takanohana and maybe aren’t ready for this kind of back blast.

I don't see how Toyota supporting Hakuho in amasumo is a problem for NSK. The car? I doubt they would be so petty. 

[Ripe 74]

37 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

I don't see how Toyota supporting Hakuho in amasumo is a problem for NSK. The car? I doubt they would be so petty. 

I guess it would depend on how sponsorship contract was worded... if for some reason it require Hakuho to be present (which would be weird) then without Hakuho there might not be a car available. Hell, depending on the wording NSK might actually be in breach of that contract and required to potentially pay some penalties!

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

14 minutes ago, Ripe said:

I guess it would depend on how sponsorship contract was worded... if for some reason it require Hakuho to be present (which would be weird) then without Hakuho there might not be a car available. Hell, depending on the wording NSK might actually be in breach of that contract and required to potentially pay some penalties!

This is pure fantasy, who would sign such a contract? 

This sort of speculation implies that Hakuho is somehow bigger than the whole sport - which is just not true.

[Ripe 74]

3 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

This is pure fantasy, who would sign such a contract? 

This sort of speculation implies that Hakuho is somehow bigger than the whole sport - which is just not true.

Like I said, signing a sponsorship contract between NSK and Toyota requiring Hakuho to be present would be weird to say the least, but there are some weird contract clauses out there (Van Halen's brown M&M's is just one example) so who knows...

Edited June 7 by Ripe

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

Just now, Ripe said:

Like I said, signing a sponsorship contract between NSK and Toyota requiring Hakuho to be present would be weird to say the least, but there are some weird contract clauses out there (Van Halen's brown M&M's is just one example) so who knows...

And who would play the diva role in this case? Toyota? Hakuho? 

[Ripe 74]

Just now, Bunbukuchagama said:

And who would play the diva role in this case? Toyota? Hakuho? 

Hakuho, who else?

[Yamanashi 3,988]

So, let's clear up one thing ... Hokuseiho's out, right?

 

[Kintamayama 45,974]

He's back from Mongolia. "All will be revealed on June 9th," is all he said to the reporters.

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

So, let's clear up one thing ... Hokuseiho's out, right?

 

Out of what?

[Akinomaki 41,180]

9 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

He's back from Mongolia. "All will be revealed on June 9th," is all he said to the reporters.

Quite a show at the airport today

o oo o oo o o o  o o o o o o o  o o o

pics he posted from Mongolia: a statue of his national hero father was unveiled

o oo o

Edited June 7 by Akinomaki

[SpoonThief 2]

On 04/06/2025 at 12:08, Churaumi said:

Not to derail things, but a quick question to those who know...do rikishi ever do that? Have private coaches, trainers, nutritionists, sports psychologists, etc? Never seen reference to one on the heya videos on YouTube I've watched, nor do I remember mention of it in these hallowed halls.

 

I know Hidenoyama has an outside nutritionist brought in, she's been in their last few videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPwQoxZV7Yk