Old tsukedashi and Height/weight requirements scrapped

[Akinomaki 41,900]

1 minute ago, Yarimotsu said:

Is this a legitimate worry? I haven't seen anything to indicate there's support for that

No, that's a reaction to the 150 50 post above

[yorikiried by fate 2,040]

I don't buy any foreigners' angle. The number of foreign sekitori is on the level of the early to mid 2000s and has been already for five years. The Great Foreign Devils Purge after the yaocho scandal together with one-furry-per-heya rule had some lasting effects without any change in trajectory except for levelling out.

If someone based that decision on a perceived foreigner problem, it's a misconception.

[Akinomaki 41,900]

3 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

The number of foreign sekitori is on the level of the early to mid 2000s and has been already for five years. The Great Foreign Devils Purge after the yaocho scandal together with one-furry-per-heya rule had some lasting effects without any change in trajectory except for levelling out.

Because they do everything to limit more foreign influx, while at the same time treat completely assimilated foreigners like Hokuseiho as Japanese. A difference of one year in Japan can make a difference to a nearly one year delayed career

[Akinomaki 41,900]

It will be much like in the past, from now on, tsukedashi for every descent prospect from university sumo.The big 3 now (corporate sumo is out) will have ms60TD for the best 8 and sd*last*TD for the best 16.

Also the interhigh and kokutai juniors will now give a sdTD qualification, to the best 4. So far the winners there only had the chance to get a TD at the All Japan o

Edited September 28, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 41,900]

It was decided at the rijikai today and is valid from now on. The article claims that nobody will be able any more to get to juryo in one basho, which would mean that the ms15TD for Choijil will be scrapped and he as well has to start at ms60TD

The NSK had acknowledged his ms15TD last year though https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2022/12/26/kiji/20221226s00005000482000c.html

Edited September 28, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Yamanashi 4,091]

6 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

Is this a legitimate worry? I haven't seen anything to indicate there's support for that

The weight disparity is not as important in a system where rank is based on wins.  If a rikishi weighs a whole lot but he's in Jonidan, he's probably not very nimble, so you should be able to avoid him falling on you.

[Bunbukuchagama 998]

8 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

No, they don't have the body of a pro and are more prone to injury. Oyakata and also rikishi often emphasize that at first they should get the body of a pro. Nishonoseki is especially keen with that, as we can see with Onosato going much slower than what he could do. Miyagino so far crippled many prospects because he didn't care enough about that.

There isn't much proof of that. A skinny 15-year-old recruit's body will not be more ready for sumo after 2 years of training at the heya than Onosato's the moment he went pro. 

Old grumpy men from NSK think amateur champions are having it easy nowadays because they don't have to mop floors and get hazed for years like current oyakata did back in the good old days. This is the only real explanation. 

[Katooshu 3,485]

3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

It was decided at the rijikai today and is valid from now on. The article claims that nobody will be able any more to get to juryo in one basho, which would mean that the ms15TD for Choijil will be scrapped and he as well has to start at ms60TD

The NSK had acknowledged his ms15TD last year though https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2022/12/26/kiji/20221226s00005000482000c.html

Similarly, what about Dalai. No qualification under the old system, but he meets the new sandanme tsukedashi criteria of top 16.

[Bunbukuchagama 998]

Look at Hakuoho: he is finally ready for ozumo! 

[Katooshu 3,485]

So up to 32 potential new tsukedashi spots at year - it will be interesting to see how this impacts recruitment.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Katooshu

[Bunbukuchagama 998]

1 minute ago, Katooshu said:

So up to 32 potential new tsukedashi spots at year - it will be interesting to see how this impacts recruitment.

Provided that every tournament has different winners. In practice, there will be way fewer tsukedashi recruits.

[Katooshu 3,485]

Of course there will likely be fewer, hence why I wrote 'up to 32 potential....'

Although there can still be quite a lot of variance in the top finishers across tournaments. There will certainly be several more people who qualify a year.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Katooshu

[Gurowake 4,164]

10 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

There will certainly be several more people who qualify a year.

Especially with the high school tournament qualifications.  That looks to really explode the number of people who will enter with SdTD, at least IMO.

[Gurowake 4,164]

3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The article claims that nobody will be able any more to get to juryo in one basho, which would mean that the ms15TD for Choijil will be scrapped and he as well has to start at ms60TD

I assume they mean once the rules go into effect in full, which they presumably won't quite yet if they already approved a ms15TD for someone.  But sure, they could just say "We changed the rules.  Pray we don't change them further." in their best evil voice.

[Tigerboy1966 1,670]

9 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

The number of foreign sekitori is on the level of the early to mid 2000s

That's not correct: Aki 2023, 28 foreigners; Aki 2006, 63 foreigners.

EDIT: those are figures for all wrestlers, not just sekitori. Apologies

Edited September 28, 2023 by Tigerboy1966
correction

[Yamanashi 4,091]

53 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

That's not correct: Aki 2023, 28 foreigners; Aki 2006, 63 foreigners.

EDIT: those are figures for all wrestlers, not just sekitori. Apologies

Clearly, the winning tactic would be to recruit more lousy foreign rikishi.

[Reonito 1,815]

13 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

If they want to remove some of the barriers that prevent talented young men entering the sport they should start with the one-foreigner rule.

They seem to want to do the opposite. Also, crazy that they're doing this right after Hakuoho and Onosato injected so much excitement into the sport. It's like they want to turn off both recruits and fans.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Reonito

[Akinomaki 41,900]

5 hours ago, Katooshu said:

So up to 32 potential new tsukedashi spots at year - it will be interesting to see how this impacts recruitment.

But 8 old lost, we had 4x8=32 spots, now we'll get 3x16+8=56 - not quite 32 more (no more Ochiai or Ichinojo)

Edited September 28, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Katooshu 3,485]

Right, forgot they did away with the corporate qualifcations, although few turned pro from there anyway (Hakuoho notwithstanding). The recently crowned corporate yokozuna is almost 30.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Katooshu

[Akinomaki 41,900]

5 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I assume they mean once the rules go into effect in full, which they presumably won't quite yet if they already approved a ms15TD for someone.  But sure, they could just say "We changed the rules.  Pray we don't change them further." in their best evil voice.

I assume that the writer didn't think of Choijil - Sponichi like Nikkan is full of errors, but while older reports from before the rijikai say from next year on, like the weight/height requirements, the newer ones that report the decision imply they changed the system as of today. Certainly all of this year's results will be treated according to the new rules, so the top 4 at the interhigh get the sdTD - only 1 is a third year though, Hasegawa from Goshogawara high. Maybe with this new knowledge, the 3rd years gambarize a bit more next month at the kokutai juniors - and the (young enough among the) 8 with qualifications at the corporate championships lost them today.

Choijil is the last remainder of last year's qualifiers, we'll see at the start of next basho where he'll start (if no definite information appears till then).

Really evil would be: have Choijil start at ms60 and then deny Dalai the sdTD he should have

Edited September 28, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Bunbukuchagama 998]

7 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I assume they mean once the rules go into effect in full, which they presumably won't quite yet if they already approved a ms15TD for someone.  But sure, they could just say "We changed the rules.  Pray we don't change them further." in their best evil voice.

[Bunbukuchagama 998]

3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

the newer ones that report the decision imply they changed the system as of today.

I read somewhere that changes come into effect in January.

[Asashosakari 20,334]

I was honestly surprised how long the Ms15/10 system lasted, considering the only reason for its existence appeared to be that they felt the need to "sell" the drastic increase in tsukedashi exclusivity they instituted back then, and so I had been expecting them to revert to Ms60 for years, and even moreso since Sd100 was added. Given that, I'm positively surprised that they're not just sticking with the previous criteria at the lower rank, but actually opening them up again. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Asashosakari

[Wakawakawaka 219]

Loosely related question in regards to requirements for new recruits. On SPT I believe it was mentioned the rikishi in 'school' had to pass some physical fitness tests (run around the kokugikan, do pushups, etc.?)? And rikishi also go through health checkups. I assume they are not re-evaluated on the initial fitness tests? If they are not, why not? 

It seems like it would be a good thing for recruitment in the long run if...

Rikishi had to pass fitness tests so that > being as heavy as possible becomes not quite as heavy so that > injuries are reduced and long-term health is improved.

I think the fans would benefit directly too with faster, more dynamic sumo.

[Yarimotsu 645]

8 hours ago, Wakawakawaka said:

Loosely related question in regards to requirements for new recruits. On SPT I believe it was mentioned the rikishi in 'school' had to pass some physical fitness tests (run around the kokugikan, do pushups, etc.?)? And rikishi also go through health checkups. I assume they are not re-evaluated on the initial fitness tests? If they are not, why not? 

It seems like it would be a good thing for recruitment in the long run if...

Rikishi had to pass fitness tests so that > being as heavy as possible becomes not quite as heavy so that > injuries are reduced and long-term health is improved.

I think the fans would benefit directly too with faster, more dynamic sumo.

What exactly is your proposal? Exclude Takakeisho from the banzuke until he can do a 1200m jog in a respectable time? 

I appreciate the sentiment but don't see how or why such a change from the status quo would be implemented.