Asashosakari 19,667 Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I wonder where the Sendagawa toshiyori will end up. It's owned by the former renegade Maenoyama, and surely he doesn't have any ichimon loyalties when it comes to selling his stock. He doesn't have to sell it until March 2013 at the latest, but then with the Kyokai buy-back thing still possible he might sell it sooner rather than later. Ex-Maenoyama voted with Dewanoumi in his last couple of elections, so at least my assumption has been that that's where his share will end up. (And the ichimon could sure use it...) Others appear to think it's going to be Nishonoseki because that's where his successor took the stable. I'm not even sure whom I'd class as the most "needy" Nishonoseki rikishi right now...Wakanosato? (With knock-on effect to ex-Tamanoshima, of course.) Just doesn't seem to be any immediate reason that should prompt freeing up the Takekaze-held share. I'm sure there's something though. Toki hasn't been moved from the borrowers' section on the Kyokai site, so that's not it. Not yet anyway - Kokonoe might have enough money burning a hole in his pocket to buy the share for Toki. Who knows. Edit: Strictly speculation - 1) the Sendagawa share isn't as Dewanoumi-bound as I believe it is, 2) both Toki and Musashimaru are borrowing across ichimon lines and will continue to do so, 3) Musashimaru->Oshiogawa + Toki->Sendagawa is seen as a more favourable alignment for the yokozuna than the other way around, in the event that Takamisakari needs his share soon. Edited April 23, 2012 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raishu 208 Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I wonder where the Sendagawa toshiyori will end up ....He doesn't have to sell it until March 2013 at the latest ... Excellent, that piece of information just got my memory working. The retiree has to sell his share within 3 years (IIRC), so are there any news/speculations on ex-Hasegawa's kabu (Hidenoyama). He retired in July 2009, so the share has to be sold within the next 2 months. I really hope ex-Kotonishiki can manage to come up with da moneyzz (anyways, I always wondered why such a high profile Rikishi borrows his way through the Kyokai. He surely has earned some Yen ... (Whistling...) ) Edited April 23, 2012 by Raishu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,667 Posted April 23, 2012 The retiree has to sell his share within 3 years (IIRC), so are there any news/speculations on ex-Hasegawa's kabu (Hidenoyama). He retired in July 2009, so the share has to be sold within the next 2 months. I really hope ex-Kotonishiki can manage to come up with da moneyzz (anyways, I always wondered why such a high profile Rikishi borrows his way through the Kyokai. He surely has earned some Yen ... (Whistling...) ) I forget, is Kotomitsuki still suing the Kyokai for reinstatement? The share was supposedly destined for him before his untimely exit. More realistically though - I bet Kotonishiki will start to be listed as the owner sometime between now and July, regardless of whether he actually has the money to buy it. (See ex-Wakatoba for a similar case.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubinhaad 11,761 Posted April 23, 2012 More realistically though - I bet Kotonishiki will start to be listed as the owner sometime between now and July, regardless of whether he actually has the money to buy it. (See ex-Wakatoba for a similar case.) Either that, or Kotoshogiku becomes the owner and Kotonishiki continues to borrow it from him. (I'm deliberately leaving Kotooshu out of the scenario because I really have no idea where he stands in terms of citizenship or post-intai plans) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raishu 208 Posted April 23, 2012 Well, you are probably right. I assume he might have bought the share already, if he had had the money. (I'm deliberately leaving Kotooshu out of the scenario because I really have no idea where he stands in terms of citizenship or post-intai plans) He was asked about his future plans during an interview shortly after his wedding announcement. Asked about the potential acquisition of Japanese citizenship and becoming an Oyakata, he replied with the standard phrase: "I will think about that from now on." I guess that hasn't changed since then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,530 Posted April 25, 2012 Kakizoe retires, takes Oshiogawa name (here too, just for the record..). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,667 Posted April 25, 2012 Also for the record, the Oshima share is now vacant as of today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,530 Posted June 5, 2012 Sendagawa Oyakata, ex-Touki, has moved to another heya yet again. He has switched from Kokonoe to Nishikido, reuniting with heyamate ex-Mitoizumi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muhomatsu 246 Posted July 12, 2012 Looks like Sendagawa name is officially owned by Touki (per the order of shares on the Kyokai website). Touki is no longer listed among the other borrowers. http://www.sumo.or.jp/kyokai/goannai/0012/index.html 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,667 Posted July 13, 2012 Thanks for the heads-up. Guess the share has returned to the Takasago subgroup of stables in the end. If it was going to end up with the ichimon again anyway, I'm a bit surprised Kokonoe didn't pounce on it just in case one of his many hopefuls actually stays uninjured long enough to qualify in a few years... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,530 Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Ex-Musashimaru ( current Furiwake Oyakata) has switched to Ooshima today. Takamisakari was seen buying scissors at a local department store. Edited August 30, 2012 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 6,049 Posted August 30, 2012 Ex-Musashimaru ( current Furiwake Oyakata) has switched to Ooshima today. switching = buying? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,530 Posted August 30, 2012 Ex-Musashimaru ( current Furiwake Oyakata) has switched to Ooshima today. switching = buying? Just says, as always- "changed to". There's that "we don't tell everything" thingy in place AFAIK. Our detectives eventually find out if it's bought or rented. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krindel 675 Posted August 30, 2012 Ex-Musashimaru ( current Furiwake Oyakata) has switched to Ooshima today. switching = buying? Musashimaru has missed a few chances to buy a share as I recall... Maybe he isn't really interested in owning one? I was also under the impression that the Oshima share was "in reserve" for Kyokutenho, even if he doesn't yet own it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 6,049 Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Besides, I'm wondering if Kyokutenho isn't the earmarked owner of Oshima already. Edit: what krindel says... Edited August 30, 2012 by Jakusotsu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,530 Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Besides, I'm wondering if Kyokutenho isn't the earmarked owner of Oshima already. I don't know what the relations are between ex-Ooshima and Kyokutenhou after he refused to retire. Could have remained amicable, or maybe not. Maybe the name is now up for grabs. Edited August 30, 2012 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,530 Posted August 30, 2012 Ex-Musashimaru ( current Furiwake Oyakata) has switched to Ooshima today. switching = buying? Musashimaru has missed a few chances to buy a share as I recall... Maybe he isn't really interested in owning one? I agree-he doesn't seem to be interested at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,667 Posted August 30, 2012 The press release has all the marks of a loan arrangement. In a sale they'll usually mention the (previous) owner. I'd be interested to know if ex-Asahikuni or Kyokutenho is the official owner now, but I doubt we'll get that confirmed one way or another. (Unless the share does get sold unexpectedly.) Musashimaru has missed a few chances to buy a share as I recall... Maybe he isn't really interested in owning one? I'm not sure he's really missed that many. At least as far as the Dewanoumi-ichimon shares are concerned, my understanding is that Kasugano-oyakata has been throwing around a lot of money to secure shares for all his successful sekitori, so Musashimaru may never have had a real chance. I don't know what the relations are between ex-Ooshima and Kyokutenhou after he refused to retire. Could have remained amicable, or maybe not. Maybe the name is now up for grabs. Based on the pic I used as my avatar between Natsu and Nagoya, I'd say they're probably still on good terms. That was from the yusho party, IIRC. Looks pretty chummy to me given that ex-Oshima, being retired from Ozumo, was there strictly in an unofficial capacity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,667 Posted August 30, 2012 In any case, we're about to enter the great retirement wave (12 scheduled oyakata intais between Oct 2012 and Nov 2013), so just about anyone who wants a kabu should be able to get one. Unless the organizational reform matters interfere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,667 Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Triple-post, sorry...but while I'm reviewing the thread: The retiree has to sell his share within 3 years (IIRC), so are there any news/speculations on ex-Hasegawa's kabu (Hidenoyama). He retired in July 2009, so the share has to be sold within the next 2 months. I really hope ex-Kotonishiki can manage to come up with da moneyzz (anyways, I always wondered why such a high profile Rikishi borrows his way through the Kyokai. He surely has earned some Yen ... (Whistling...) ) I forget, is Kotomitsuki still suing the Kyokai for reinstatement? The share was supposedly destined for him before his untimely exit. Shukan Gendai recently profiled Kotomitsuki and according to that article the lawsuit is still going. Doesn't mention what exactly he's suing for except that he has come to terms with the fact that he won't be returning to active rikishi status after all this time even if he were allowed to. I do think that just leaves an oyakata post as a realistic target, especially since Mickey somewhat cryptically talks about his desire to bring up new rikishi in the article. One tidbit we may not have heard before - he continues to refuse to accept his retirement money from the Kyokai. Also: More realistically though - I bet Kotonishiki will start to be listed as the owner sometime between now and July, regardless of whether he actually has the money to buy it. (See ex-Wakatoba for a similar case.) Either that, or Kotoshogiku becomes the owner and Kotonishiki continues to borrow it from him. (I'm deliberately leaving Kotooshu out of the scenario because I really have no idea where he stands in terms of citizenship or post-intai plans) I guess something like that must've happened, it's past July 2012 and the Hidenoyama share is still only held on loan. Edited August 30, 2012 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,530 Posted August 30, 2012 That was from the yusho party, IIRC. Looks pretty chummy to me given that ex-Oshima, being retired from Ozumo, was there strictly in an unofficial capacity. As we know so well, the "public" face and the "true" face do not always match, especially in Japan and surely in sumo.. i am not convinced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,667 Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) Officially confirmed now, Maru is still only borrowing. Edit: In a vaguely related matter, one day belated congrats to Nishikijima-oyakata on his 60th birthday. (Holiday feeling...) 5 more years for a fully borrowed oyakata career... Edited September 4, 2012 by Asashosakari 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pikenoyama 27 Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) In any case, we're about to enter the great retirement wave (12 scheduled oyakata intais between Oct 2012 and Nov 2013), so just about anyone who wants a kabu should be able to get one. Unless the organizational reform matters interfere. This statement is more true than I thought it might be. After this wave of retirements and if my notes and thoughts are right, there should remain only four eligible (by results and nationality) guys without their own kabu (active rikishi + toshiyori karikabu oyakata). But if nobody quits earlier those further four open slots would be free only by April 2016. Edited September 4, 2012 by Pikenoyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,667 Posted September 4, 2012 This statement is more true than I thought it might be. After this wave of retirements and if my notes and thoughts are right, there should remain only four eligible (by results and nationality) guys without their own kabu (active rikishi + toshiyori karikabu oyakata). But if nobody quits earlier those further four open slots would be free only by April 2016. Would you mind posting your notes? I tried to get my own thoughts sorted just now, but it's a lot more complex than I anticipated. :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pikenoyama 27 Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) Would you mind posting your notes? I tried to get my own thoughts sorted just now, but it's a lot more complex than I anticipated. :-) It is indeed complex and I know, that some of these guys will not become oyakata because of their own decision.... But anyway, I´ll give it a try and sorry for the graphics. Dewanoumi ichimon - 3 free kabu till 2013 + 4 free kabu till 2016; 3 toshiyori karikabu being afraid of retirement of owner/active rikishi (2 extra-ichimon - Musashimaru (I am still counting with Kyokutenho as future Oshima), Kakizoe (Takekaze), 1 intra-heya - Tochisakae (Tochiozan)); 6 active rikishi eligible for kabu by current standards (let´s forget Hamanishiki´s case, right;-)) (Miyabiyama (family business?), Bushuyama, Kitataiki, Goeido, Toyohibiki, Myogiryu) Nishonoseki ichimon - 3 free kabu till 2013 + 1 free kabu till 2016; 2 toshiyori karikabu being afraid of retirement of owner/active rikishi (both intra-ichimon - Tamanoshima (Wakanosato), Tamarikido (Kisenosato); 3 active rikishi eligible for kabu by current standards (Kotoshogiku, Yoshikaze, Tamaasuka) Kasugayama-Isegahama ichimon - 2 free kabu till 2013 + 2 free kabu till 2016; no nominees Tokitsukaze ichimon - 2 free kabu till 2013 + 0 free kabu till 2016; 2 toshiyori karikabu being afraid of retirement of owner/active rikishi (extra-ichimon - Shikishima (Aminishiki), intra-heya – Zaonishiki (Toyonoshima) – I know he won´t need any kabu by 2017, so we can omit him); 1 active rikishi eligible for kabu by current standards (Homasho) Takasago ichimon - 2 free kabu till 2013 + 0 free kabu till 2016; no nominees Takanohana et renegades ichimon - 0 free kabu till 2016; 1 active rikishi eligible for kabu by current standards (Wakakoyu) In total – 12 free kabu till 2013 + 7 free kabu till 2016; 9 toshiyori karikabu being afraid of retirement of owner/active rikishi ; 11 active rikishi eligible for kabu by current standards Does it makes sense? Edited thanks to Raishu´s following post Edited September 6, 2012 by Pikenoyama 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
