Baruto - How will he do this basho?

[Jejima 1,415]

Of course, he could do more than one option of the above, so vote for as high up the list as you dare go.

The reason for this question is because after looking at the lower half of the banzuke, I can't really see too many rikishi who are that amazing, and I can envisage him doing very well in the first week. I think the torikumi-makers may delay matching a shin-maku rikishi up against the joi-jin and above, until they really have to.

So I personally think he should have a good basho ahead of him. But how good? Does anyone else think he'll make a big mark this basho?

[Asashosakari 19,669]

Of course, he could do more than one option of the above, so vote for as high up the list as you dare go.

"Sansho" and "double-digit wins" are pretty much redundant to each other for a shin-nyumaku...

Anyway, I think he'll get 10 wins, though not as easily as some will probably think he should.

I think the torikumi-makers may delay matching a shin-maku rikishi up against the joi-jin and above, until they really have to.

Not just shin-nyumaku, but any low-ranked rikishi. Just recall the outcries when the Kyokai skeedaddled in bringing up Hokutoriki and Tokitsuumi in January.

Edited April 29, 2006 by Asashosakari

[Kishinoyama 596]

I dared to go as high up as a sansho although I think that it would take at least 10 wins to even be considered for a sansho :-( .

[Fujisan 533]

I say double digit and anything less than 9-6 will be a minor disaster.

[Asojima 2,874]

I say double digit and anything less than 9-6 will be a minor disaster.

Disaster?? At Ms11, a 5-10 to 7-8 would be a setback, but hardly a disaster. As a shinmaku coming from deep in the Juryo, anything better than a 5-10 should be considered acceptable. I'm not wishing for it, but that is reality.

[Kishinoyama 596]

I say double digit and anything less than 9-6 will be a minor disaster.

A little trivia here (Yes I know very little :-( ) . A rikishi in the May 1990 tournament made his Makuuchi debut at M14e which at that time was the last position on the banzuke in the Makuuchi division. He only had 4 wins which could be a rather disasterous result. It took him two tournaments to make it back to Makuuchi after he was demoted back to Juryo. He went on to be very successful. Who was this rikishi? The point being, a bad debut in the top division is not the end of the world (In jonokuchi...) .

Edit: In November of 1990 ranked at M12w he finished 8-7 in his second tournament in the top division. Not exactly impressive but a winning record.

Edited April 30, 2006 by Kishinoyama

[Doitsuyama 1,192]

I say double digit and anything less than 9-6 will be a minor disaster.

A little trivia here (Yes I know very little :-( ) . A rikishi in the May 1990 tournament made his Makuuchi debut at M14e which at that time was the last position on the banzuke in the Makuuchi division. He only had 4 wins which could be a rather disasterous result. It took him two tournaments to make it back to Makuuchi after he was demoted back to Juryo. He went on to be very successful. Who was this rikishi? The point being, a bad debut in the top division is not the end of the world (In jonokuchi...) .

Edit: In November of 1990 ranked at M12w he finished 8-7 in his second tournament in the top division. Not exactly impressive but a winning record.

You don't think the little matter of age play a quite important role here? At makuuchi debut your mystery rikishi was 17 years old, while Baruto is almost four years older with 21. The 17 year old guy has much more potential upside than the 21 year old, so Baruto better shows his stuff now.

[Fujisan 533]

A little trivia here (Yes I know very little (In a state of confusion...) ) . A rikishi in the May 1990 tournament made his Makuuchi debut at M14e which at that time was the last position on the banzuke in the Makuuchi division. He only had 4 wins which could be a rather disasterous result. It took him two tournaments to make it back to Makuuchi after he was demoted back to Juryo. He went on to be very successful. Who was this rikishi? The point being, a bad debut in the top division is not the end of the world :-) .

Edit: In November of 1990 ranked at M12w he finished 8-7 in his second tournament in the top division. Not exactly impressive but a winning record.

Easy Takanohana or Takahanada at the time.

But did you know an even more successful rikishi made his Makuuchi debut with a 5-10 record then dropped back to Makushita 3 basho later before climbing back to makuuchi and an 8-7 start.

[Kishinoyama 596]

You don't think the little matter of age play a quite important role here? At makuuchi debut your mystery rikishi was 17 years old, while Baruto is almost four years older with 21. The 17 year old guy has much more potential upside than the 21 year old, so Baruto better shows his stuff now.

You are right about age being an important factor but Asashoryu was 20 when he made his Makuuchi debut which surely is not the same as being 17. Asashoryu's first four tournament scores were 9-6, 9-6, 8-7 and 7-8. Not exactly overwhelming. If Baruto has the talent he will show it. He may not get double digits in his first tournament, maybe not in his fhis first three or four tournaments but if he is as talented as I think he is, he will be fighting at the top very soon (In a state of confusion...) . All this said of course hoping for no injuries!

[Kishinoyama 596]

But did you know an even more successful rikishi made his Makuuchi debut with a 5-10 record then dropped back to Makushita 3 basho later before climbing back to makuuchi and an 8-7 start.

Yes! His name would be Chiyonofuji! If I'm not mistaken he had suffered a shoulder injury which caused him to fall back to Makushita. Chiyonofuji had so many shoulder injuries that it is really amazing that he made it to the top AND THEN stayed their for so long! (In a state of confusion...)

[Doitsuyama 1,192]

You don't think the little matter of age play a quite important role here? At makuuchi debut your mystery rikishi was 17 years old, while Baruto is almost four years older with 21. The 17 year old guy has much more potential upside than the 21 year old, so Baruto better shows his stuff now.

You are right about age being an important factor but Asashoryu was 20 when he made his Makuuchi debut which surely is not the same as being 17. Asashoryu's first four tournament scores were 9-6, 9-6, 8-7 and 7-8. Not exactly overwhelming.

You again chose to omit an important detail. (In a state of confusion...) Normally 9-6, 9-6 would leave a makuuchi debut rikishi outside the joi-jin. But due to some remarkable banzuke luck Asashoryu was komusubi when he had the 8-7, and I'd like to point out that a kachi-koshi sanyaku debut is outside the ordinary. Especially if you look at the age issue again.

[Kishinoyama 596]

You again chose to omit an important detail. :-) Normally 9-6, 9-6 would leave a makuuchi debut rikishi outside the joi-jin. But due to some remarkable banzuke luck Asashoryu was komusubi when he had the 8-7, and I'd like to point out that a kachi-koshi sanyaku debut is outside the ordinary. Especially if you look at the age issue again.

Okay then let's omit the 8-7 at the joi-jin rank. While two 9-6 records may be good they certainly are not overwhelming. Will you agree with that? Probably not..... (In a state of confusion...)

[Asashosakari 19,669]

You again chose to omit an important detail. ;-) Normally 9-6, 9-6 would leave a makuuchi debut rikishi outside the joi-jin. But due to some remarkable banzuke luck Asashoryu was komusubi when he had the 8-7, and I'd like to point out that a kachi-koshi sanyaku debut is outside the ordinary. Especially if you look at the age issue again.

Okay then let's omit the 8-7 at the joi-jin rank. While two 9-6 records may be good they certainly are not overwhelming. Will you agree with that? Probably not..... :-)

Asashoryu was a comparatively small rikishi when he reached Makuuchi, you can't quite say the same thing about Baruto. (In a state of confusion...) The better comparison might be somebody like Akebono - who, of course, also "only" went 9-6 in his Makuuchi debut. (Musashimaru got an 11-4, though.) I don't agree with Fujisan's sentiment that less than 9 wins would be disastrous, but perhaps a little disappointing.

At any rate, don't be blinded by Baruto's relatively high debut rank - the requirements for making the torikumi are such that he's going to face pretty much exactly the same opponents he would have if he was ranked at the bottom of the division.

[Asojima 2,874]

At any rate, don't be blinded by Baruto's relatively high debut rank - the requirements for making the torikumi are such that he's going to face pretty much exactly the same opponents he would have if he was ranked at the bottom of the division.

My earlier point was that the higher debut rank gives him a pretty good cushion in the event that he has a less than stellar performance. It will take a horrible record to push him back down to Juryo.

[Kishinoyama 596]

Asashoryu was a comparatively small rikishi when he reached Makuuchi, you can't quite say the same thing about Baruto. (In a state of confusion...)

You could also include Konishiki who was rather large and still is :-). His Makuuchi debut was only 8-7. Then he was the runnerup with a 12-3 record in the very next tournament ;-) .

[hoshidango 0]

Asashoryu was a comparatively small rikishi when he reached Makuuchi, you can't quite say the same thing about Baruto. :-(

You could also include Konishiki who was rather large and still is (I am not worthy...). His Makuuchi debut was only 8-7. Then he was the runnerup with a 12-3 record in the very next tournament (Yusho winner...) .

10-5 or 11-4. Will be surprised if he doesn't do better than 7 wins.

[Araiguma_Rascal 0]

Baruto looked very impressive to me today in his debut. The Japanese announcers were comparing him to legendary wrestler Raiden from the Edo era of all people. That is, they mentioned that his height and weight were about the same as Raiden (Which means that Raiden must have been like a Goliath of a man in his day). He was obviously relaxed and in complete control of the match. I think he might even be better than Hakuho, Kotooshu and Tochiazuma in the very near future, if not already. His sheer size and strength are what makes him so good. I can't wait to see him go up against the Yokozuna!

(Enjoying a beer...)

[Shibouyama 1]

I think Baruto is so good that he could probably get 13 or 14 wins this basho with one hand tied behind his back. He could get double digit wins with both hands free, but blindfolded. He's just that good. His incredible strength has been rumored to extend to his 6th sense, maybe even as far as his 7th sense. I bet he could make Yokozuna within a year even if he started every match facing the opposite direction with his back to his opponent. Even if he was unconscious he could probably get kachi-koshi this tournament. I predict that the Sumo Kyokai will feel compelled to create a new rank above Yokozuna to accomodate the meta-human magnificence that is Baruto, Super Duper Yokozuna!

(Blushing...) x 3 or 4 = Baruto

[Shimpu 0]

I think Baruto is so good that he could probably get 13 or 14 wins this basho with one hand tied behind his back. He could get double digit wins with both hands free, but blindfolded. He's just that good. His incredible strength has been rumored to extend to his 6th sense, maybe even as far as his 7th sense. I bet he could make Yokozuna within a year even if he started every match facing the opposite direction with his back to his opponent. Even if he was unconscious he could probably get kachi-koshi this tournament. I predict that the Sumo Kyokai will feel compelled to create a new rank above Yokozuna to accomodate the meta-human magnificence that is Baruto, Super Duper Yokozuna!

:-) x 3 or 4 = Baruto

Really good. (Sign of approval)I like your sense of humour (Blushing...) I wonder what all these Baruto's fan will say if he'll become another Kokkai or Roho... Big and... big.

[ilovesumo 12]

No Zensho if you wanted to hear that (Blushing...)

[Hundred Hand Slap 0]

So far so good.

[Jejima 1,415]

Can we say that he is a dark horse Yusho contender yet - or even a serious contender?