Oyakata in mawashi?

[Kaikitsune Makoto 210]

Saw images of Takasago-oyakata in mawashi doing shiko and Takanohana wearing a mawashi lending his chest to his deshi at Nagoya-camp. Takasago looks quite fit actually in the picture on the sumofanmag-site. Takanohana probably wouldn't have a chance against makushita rikishi and possibly not even against sandanme but maybe he did mainly butsukari anyway.

Nishikido-oyakata (Mitoizumi) used to do keiko with his deshi with intensity throwing them around. Maybe does even nowadays?

So I wonder, which oyakata wear mawashi occasionally at keiko and even take part in the action on the dohyo?

Nishikido, Takasago, Takanohana..

What about Musashimaru? Minatofuji? other younger oyakata?

One could imagine that especially in smaller heya where there are not sekitori, oyakata might wrap into mawashi and educate.

Of course if oyakata remains obese while losing a lot of muscle and condition in general, putting on a mawashi isn't the first thought that comes to mind I bet...

Would also be interesting to hear how many oyakata keep themselves fit with exercise of some sort and healthy diet etc.

[Sasanishiki 57]

Would also be interesting to hear how many oyakata keep themselves fit with exercise of some sort and healthy diet etc.

Smoking and golf isn't it? I remember going to Tamanoi and the oyakata was practising his grip and wrist action for golf with the bamboo cane while keiko was going on.

[Kintamayama 47,309]

Indeed..

Edited June 21, 2005 by Kintamayama

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

I still don't think a Makushita rikishi would be able to easily beat Takanohana-oyakata. The power/muscle is lost, but the technique still should be vastly superior to Makushita.

[Chienoshima 0]

I still don't think a Makushita rikishi would be able to easily beat Takanohana-oyakata. The power/muscle is lost, but the technique still should be vastly superior to Makushita.

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Yep, I am completely with you. The skills and all his magical stuff he did on the tawara, let alone the will, are still there and can clearly put some surprises to an average makushita rikishi.

I remember one story about the former great yokozuna Tochigiyama, who put on his mawashi to train a freshly promoted sekitori when he was well above 50 years old. Kasugano oyakata (who raised yokozuna Tochinishiki later on) actually put a real show on his deshi at that time.

The great champ never loose their great technical skills. You should see our soccer legend Michel Platini play against very good and well trained amateurs, who try in vain to stop him. The man just turned 50 but is still too good with ball around his feet.

On this pic from Nikkan, Takanohana oyakata wore the same mawashi he used to have when he was active. Actually, in his active, he wrapped this mawashi by doing 4 circles around his belly, but now he did 6 circles. At the training session, he said :

"I have to teach myself the fundamentals to the very young wrestlers. It has been quite a long time, but compared to my active days, I had to say that I can barely move! (laughter)".

I guess his right knee injury is still there.

Regards,

Chienoshima

Edited June 22, 2005 by Chienoshima

[Manekineko 200]

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Lost the stomach, but the chest is still there... (In a state of confusion...) Looks spooky.

[Higashimori 0]

Lost the stomach, but the chest is still there...  (In a state of confusion...)  Looks spooky.

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I agree....is there not anyone else who looks at these photos of Takanohana in mawashi and feel a bit "kimoi" (grossed out)? I mean, the rib cage should not be showing like that....

[sekitori 492]

I still don't think a Makushita rikishi would be able to easily beat Takanohana-oyakata. The power/muscle is lost, but the technique still should be vastly superior to Makushita.

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I don't think that his present weight reflects the loss of muscle. It looks as if he retained most or all of it. It appears that Takanohana lost all that weight in a very intelligent manner with the primary intention of losing fat while retaining muscle. He may not have the power he once had because all that bulk is gone. But the muscle still appears to be there. He still looks very strong for someone his present size. And he's a lot more healthy than he was a couple of years ago.

[aderechelsea 125]

he looks kind of weird indeed.

his legs are like tindersticks ... that would be a real problem when trying to win against a makushita rikishi (always in a theoretical level)

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

I still don't think a Makushita rikishi would be able to easily beat Takanohana-oyakata. The power/muscle is lost, but the technique still should be vastly superior to Makushita.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think that his present weight reflects the loss of muscle. It looks as if he retained most or all of it. It appears that Takanohana lost all that weight in a very intelligent manner with the primary intention of losing fat while retaining muscle. He may not have the power he once had because all that bulk is gone. But the muscle still appears to be there. He still looks very strong for someone his present size. And he's a lot more healthy than he was a couple of years ago.

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(In a state of confusion...)

Please be serious. Of course he lost most of the muscle. Along with missed training he certainly nowadays also abstains from "medicaments" helping the building of muscles.

[Onnagumo 4]

I agree....is there not anyone else who looks at these photos of Takanohana in mawashi and feel a bit "kimoi" (grossed out)? I mean, the rib cage should not be showing like that....

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"Grossed out" is not exactly what I was thinking. More like "worried".....

[sekitori 492]

> Of course he lost most of the muscle. Along with missed training he certainly nowadays also abstains from "medicaments" helping the building of muscles.

If he lost all that weight by continuing to exercise while decreasing his caloric intake, he may have lost some muscle but he also lost a lot more fat. And what "medicaments" are those? The only ones I know that build muscle are steroids. If someone is taking steroids and then stops, of course muscle mass will decrease. I didn't think that steroid use is prevalent in sumo, but maybe I'm wrong. If it is, I doubt very much if any one will admit it.

[BuBa 77]

he looks kind of weird indeed.

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Young man with a very old body?

Edited June 23, 2005 by BuBa

[Kaikitsune Makoto 210]

Well skill only takes you up to certain level in sumo since power is clearly the biggest attribute to success. Takanohana has lost so much muscle that it is almost surreal. No doubt he can still do his yotsu-magic but he never was a Mainoumi-like technician who could utilize similar techniques. Maybe he could win some bouts against an average makushita rikishi but wouldn't place a bet on him against a high makushita rikishi. Who knows though. Only thing that is certain is that he lost easily over 20kg of pure muscle along with the fat. There is no exercise that can maintain such a huge muscle mass unless one trains really hard and eats a lot etc. All makuuchi rikishi have unnatural muscle mass and their bodies try to lose that extra muscle in order to function more economically. They have to do a lot of work to maintain such an extra load of muscle. Steroids help in this a lot actually. Some power athletes who have massive muscle bulk don't seem to lose that much weight or even size when retiring from top level training and drugs but in many of those cases the muscle is simply replaced with connective tissue and fat tissue. For example Azumazeki-oyakata, I am sure he is still strong man and he is still huge but the amount of muscle mass is much smaller than during his active career. It is easier to lose extra muscle mass and power than extra fat.

Takanohana's chest shape looked different already during his career. Prominent ribcage indeed but in that picture where he is putting on the mawashi, he is sucking his stomach in I think so it isn't *that* bad (Eh?)

[Sasanishiki 57]

Takanohana's chest shape looked different already during his career. Prominent ribcage indeed but in that picture where he is putting on the mawashi, he is sucking his stomach in I think so it isn't *that* bad (Eh?)

I was just going to say this. i think the photo is showing an extreme that just doesn't exist in the way we are making out. yes, he has lost weight dramatically and lost muscle with it, but I don't think he is as emaciated as the picture may suggest.

[Chienoshima 0]

he looks kind of weird indeed.

his legs are like tindersticks ... that would be a real problem when trying to win against a makushita rikishi (always in a theoretical level)

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In my opinion, Takanohana's legs still have powerfull muscles, and can definitely kick some makushita's butts ! (I am not worthy...)

Regards,

Chienoshima

Edited June 23, 2005 by Chienoshima

[Kotoku 0]

I can't understand the red skin and atrophied biceps. I think he is working on losing weight, period. Maybe if he got into the weightroom afterwards, he would shape up. He is still a very young man.

[genghis 0]

he looks kind of weird indeed.

his legs are like tindersticks ... that would be a real problem when trying to win against a makushita rikishi (always in a theoretical level)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my opinion, Takanohana's legs still have powerfull muscles, and can definitely kick some makushita's butts ! (I am not worthy...)

Regards,

Chienoshima

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I've never seen such a drastic change in athlete's body. It looks just so unnatural. Is it healthy to change so much so fast? Excess weight and fat are ok to lose, but I guess he overdid it loosing so much of a muscle.

[sekitori 492]

There could be a very logical reason why Takanohana lost so much weight in so short a time. My idea previously was that he thought it was not good for his health in general to carry so much weight which was no longer necessary, and he wanted to get rid of it. But that doesn't explain why he lost it so quickly.

I now have a different idea and to me at least, it makes sense. Takanohana's knee was in terrible shape and had to be surgically reconstructed. It kept him out of sumo for a long time (I'm not sure but I think it was about a year, maybe longer) and was the cause for his retirement. How he even tried to come back after such major surgery was amazing. He weighed close to 160 kg. when he retired. That's a tremendous amount of weight to be supported by a very bad knee. Even though he was no longer active, I would think that he had quite a bit of difficulty walking and moving even somewhat normally. And by favoring his bad knee, the other leg was taking a lot of undue stress as well.

I imagine that his orthopedic doctors told him that a major thing he could do to live a normal life after sumo would be to lose as much excess weight as possible and thereby ease the huge amount of stress on his legs. And knowing how single minded Takanohana can be, he probably took that advice very seriously--maybe to an extreme.

He now weighs probably little more than half of what he did when he last competed. Many people say that he appears to be scrawny, possibly even sick. Although some of us may be alarmed at the way he looks and worry about him, I think his doctors are probably quite pleased. Without all that weight, he should be able walk and move around a lot more easily. Maybe not as good as someone healthy knees, but still better than he once could.

And if he no longer has the strength to defeat even a makushita rikishi, it really doesn't matter, does it?