Bunbukuchagama 964 Posted September 27 1 minute ago, Katooshu said: I do wonder if he aggravated something. He was holding his elbow after losing to Aonishiki, then uncharacteristically blown away by Kotozakura, then a not exactly confidence-laden win over WTK. Here we go again: Hoshoryu is supposed to win every bout; if he doesn't, he must be hurt or a victim of a tragic coincidence of some other kind. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katooshu 3,483 Posted September 27 (edited) I don't think that at all about Hoshoryu, and have suggested previously that many people seem to have unrealistic expectations of him. However, he is injury prone, he did noticeably favour his arm after losing to Aonishiki, and there was a quick drop in form from a fairly confident 11-0, to being feebly blown away by someone he usually beats or at least loses to competitively, and then a very unconfident approach to an opponent he's defeated head on several times in a row. Durability is an ability and it is part of being a high achieving rikishi, so even if there is an injury, it's still down to him. Edited September 27 by Katooshu 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 964 Posted September 27 4 minutes ago, Katooshu said: and there was a quick drop in form from a fairly confident 11-0 Have you watched his bouts? A henka on day 3 and at least a couple of lucky escapes when a loss was a real possibility - I would rather call his 11-0 a huge surprise than the other way around. Compare it to Onosato who basically demolished every single opponents he defeated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katooshu 3,483 Posted September 27 I have, and I think he looked good until the last few days. Certainly better than the guy who was haplessly escorted out by Kotozakura. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jabbamaru 169 Posted September 27 Kyokai should simply ban all gaijin from sumo altogether. It would be less pathetic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 964 Posted September 27 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Katooshu said: I have, and I think he looked good until the last few days. Certainly better than the guy who was haplessly escorted out by Kotozakura. He never managed such an impressive start before - and had to come back to earth eventually. So, instead of the usual Hoshoryu dropping bouts to random Maegashira in the first week, we got a more traditional case of a rikishi losing his edge when his competition got tougher. On average, this gives us the same old Hoshoryu with a best case scenario of 12-13 wins (which is still very impressive, but he is yet to make it sustainable). Edited September 27 by Bunbukuchagama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katooshu 3,483 Posted September 27 (edited) He already beat several guys known to be among the most troublesome for him. And even when Kotoz defeats him it's pretty much never like it was the other day. He is an injury prone rikishi who has withdrawn from several tournaments before, he was openly struggling with his arm on tours and in training recently, and was visibly holding it after losing to Aonishiki. I don't get what's so outlandish about raising the possibility of him aggravating it - it's not an excuse because it's still down to his own level of durability and ability to perform at elite level while hurting. He's not the only one who must face these issues. Edited September 27 by Katooshu 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaninoyama 1,879 Posted September 27 Fusensho + Henka for the two Yokozuna. I'm sure more than a few Kokugikan fans went home a little disappointed yesterday. Hopefully today's showdown makes up for it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 41,755 Posted September 27 31 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said: Now, explain his Day 3 henka. That was no henka but inashi, a totally different bout, he went for the belt immediately, no avoiding contact and slap-down like today. And while Onosato is especially weak on days 4, Hoshoryu at the first completed basho as yokozuna lost his first bout on day 3, he wanted to make sure not to repeat that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 964 Posted September 27 1 minute ago, Akinomaki said: That was no henka but inashi, a totally different bout, he went for the belt immediately, OMG, not HNH again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,225 Posted September 27 (edited) HNH is just a henka that happens to occur against an opponent who is less unprepared for it than Wakatakakage was today, and thus still needs the mawashi grab and throw to be performed on him to get the win. Day 3 was absolutely a henka, Hoshoryu had no intention of meeting his opponent straight on there either. Edited September 27 by Asashosakari 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 41,755 Posted September 27 25 minutes ago, Asashosakari said: HNH is just a henka that happens to occur against an opponent who is less unprepared for it than Wakatakakage was today, and thus still needs the mawashi grab and throw to be performed on him to get the win. Day 3 was absolutely a henka, Hoshoryu had no intention of meeting his opponent straight on there either. Today was a henka at tachi-ai, day 3 was a henka-like tachiai. Hoshoryu went for the mawashi grip at once on day 3, so it's not a full henka like we saw today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 41,755 Posted September 27 (edited) With today's (fusen) win, Onosato has secured the most wins of the year award. He is at 60 wins, leading by 16 wins, 2nd are Kirishima and Aonishiki (his January wins were in juryo and don't count). o Edited September 27 by Akinomaki 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,225 Posted September 27 10 minutes ago, Akinomaki said: Today was a henka at tachi-ai, day 3 was a henka-like tachiai. Hoshoryu went for the mawashi grip at once on day 3, so it's not a full henka like we saw today. The only substantive difference between Day 3 and Day 14 is that Wakatakakage's tachiai made things easier for Hoshoryu than Hakuoho's tachiai did. He absolutely would have grabbed the mawashi today as well if WTK had actually arrived in a position that made it feasible/necessary. To believe differently undersells Hoshoryu's reaction speed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 6,389 Posted September 27 2 minutes ago, Akinomaki said: With today's (fusen) win, Onosato has secured the most wins of the year award. He is at 60 wins, leading by 16 wins, 2nd are Kirishima and Aonishiki. o Has the title ever been won that early? Must have been Hakuho... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 4,069 Posted September 27 1 hour ago, Katooshu said: I do wonder if he aggravated something. He was holding his elbow after losing to Aonishiki, then uncharacteristically blown away by Kotozakura, then a not exactly confidence-laden win over WTK with a move to reduce engagement. Despite the one-sided head to head so far, I suspect Onosato will manage a win tonight, whether it takes 1 or 2 tries. If Onosato still can't beat him, then the big guy needs to do some serious thinking about why pretty much every high ranker in the division does better against Hoshoryu than him. Here's a hint: https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=1235 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 4,069 Posted September 27 1 hour ago, Kaninoyama said: Fusensho + Henka for the two Yokozuna. I'm sure more than a few Kokugikan fans went home a little disappointed yesterday. Hopefully today's showdown makes up for it. Everybody wants to finally have that all-Yokozuna Senshuraku thing, then everybody gripes about how it came about ... 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RabidJohn 2,056 Posted September 27 5 minutes ago, Akinomaki said: Today was a henka at tachi-ai, day 3 was a henka-like tachiai. Hoshoryu went for the mawashi grip at once on day 3, so it's not a full henka like we saw today. That looks like it was written by AI... A henka is a side step at any time. It's also binary. No such thing as 'henka-like' or 'full henka': it either was or wasn't. And there would be no rumbling if it wasn't. The Japanese fans have their golden boy yokozuna now, so Hoshoryu's going to be cast as heel anyway, so he may as well play up to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 41,755 Posted September 27 23 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said: Has the title ever been won that early? Must have been Hakuho... The last time the award was decided before the start of Kyushu was 2021 by Terunofuji. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 964 Posted September 27 39 minutes ago, RabidJohn said: A henka is a side step at any time. It's also binary. No such thing as 'henka-like' or 'full henka': it either was or wasn't. I know it when I see it. (c) I know it when I see it - Wikipedia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 964 Posted September 27 34 minutes ago, Akinomaki said: The last time the award was decided before the start of Kyushu was 2021 by Terunofuji. He was a monster that year, and Hakuho skipped a bunch of basho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 41,755 Posted September 27 The 2 tate-gyoji for this basho received gyoji attire from both yokozuna, with their shikona in the design o o They can't use them at a bout, it would look like support for the yokozuna, only for the dohyo-iri of the respective yokozuna (and the kaobure after that) They wore it on a few days for the dohyo-iri, but mostly other attire - no need to change then. o Those by Hoshoryu were used more often, a much more neutral and fashionable design. Only 2 times so far that both wore them. o 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaninoyama 1,879 Posted September 27 1 hour ago, Yamanashi said: Everybody wants to finally have that all-Yokozuna Senshuraku thing, then everybody gripes about how it came about ... Who's griping? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 4,069 Posted September 27 25 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said: Who's griping? Well, according to you, at least "more than a few Kokugikan fans", plus some of the posters on this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 4,150 Posted September 28 (edited) Sansho: Gino-sho: Aonishiki Kanto-Sho: Takanosho Shukun-sho: Aonishiki if Hoshoryu wins the Yusho (at least that's what I think 豊昇龍が優勝した場合 means given it has both "Hoshoryu" and "Yusho" in it, and the fact that the Shukun-Sho is often given to someone who beats the tournament winner, though I'm not as familiar with the last part of the Japanese - have they ever used this condition before?) Hakuoho if he wins his match https://x.com/sumokyokai/status/1972149307219562651 Edited September 28 by Gurowake 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
