Preparations of the Y/O-Aki 2017

[Bumpkin 438]

It's official. NSK website has Hakuho, Kisenosato, Kakuryu, Aoiyama and Sadanoumi as kyujo.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Bumpkin

[Bumpkin 438]

There are now only 8 Sanyaku rikishi active. Only 27 intra-Sanyaku bouts. That's less then 2 per day.

[Bumpkin 438]

10 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

In case Hakuho is also out, will they remember to put Harumafuji on the East side in the Day 1 and 2 torikumi?

Nope. Harumafuji is on the West side. 

[Kintamayama 47,258]

"Hakuhou is kyujo. He wanted to enter till the end but whatever he did, his left knee wouldn't heal. He can't bend it for more than a short time.." said Miyagino Oyakata. "He needs to be able to aim for the yusho. It did seem he wanted to enter..He is feeling bad about it and said he wished he had more time to heal but the torikumi deadline was nearing and a decision had to be made. At the present, all he can do is to get better quickly," summed the Oyakata.

[Kintamayama 47,258]

PR Boss Shibatayama: "It's really inexcusable that three Yokozuna are missing during these days when the fans are filling the seats. Still, a Yokozuna is a human being. Showing up in bad shape will not do any good for anyone.."

Judging Department boss Nishonoseki:  "A Yokozuna cannot show up when he's not 100% healthy, but one dohyo iri every day is really lonely.. This basho rests on Harumafuji's shoulders. I would like him to lead the yusho race till the final day!"

[rhyen 1,858]

36 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Judging Department boss Nishonoseki:  "A Yokozuna cannot show up when he's not 100% healthy, but one dohyo iri every day is really lonely.. This basho rests on Harumafuji's shoulders. I would like him to lead the yusho race till the final day!"

NSK internal memo to Harumafuji (burn after reading)

Order not to go kyujo during the Basho.

PS: please.

PPS: Pretty please. 

[rhyen 1,858]

15 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

In case Hakuho is also out, will they remember to put Harumafuji on the East side in the Day 1 and 2 torikumi?

According to the torikumi just released, Harumafuji is staying on the West side.

so they have drop the traditional shift?

[Kintamayama 47,258]

Hakkaku Rijicho: "It's really regrettable that we've come to this at this point.. We finally have 4 Yokozunae and the fans have sold out the venue in anticipation of seeing this wonderful sight.. I think this is extremely inexcusable towards all the fans. The banzuke is well balanced with the newcomers and the veterans, so I have a lot of expectations from the young guys.."

Edited September 8, 2017 by Kintamayama

[ryafuji 824]

43 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Hakkaku Rijicho: " We finally have 4 Yokozunae and the fans have sold out the venue in anticipation of seeing this wonderful sight.. I think this is extremely inexcusable towards all the fans."

Injuries are inevitable. There's no legislating for it. Much better that they pull out beforehand to fully heal than limp on and withdraw halfway yet again. Bit rich as well from a ex-yokozuna who missed multiple tournaments through injury (three in a row at one point).

[RaeucherLax 292]

15 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Bit rich as well from a ex-yokozuna who missed multiple tournaments through injury (three in a row at one point).

Theres a saying for that in german:

Die größten Kritiker der Elche waren früher selber welche. 

Maybe someone is able to find a nice translation for this .

[Asashosakari 20,255]

33 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Injuries are inevitable. There's no legislating for it. Much better that they pull out beforehand to fully heal than limp on and withdraw halfway yet again. Bit rich as well from a ex-yokozuna who missed multiple tournaments through injury (three in a row at one point).

IMHO, both Hakkaku and Shibatayama are stating that the situation is inexcusable for the Kyokai, not for the three yokozuna. They're really not saying much more than "We know this sucks, and we feel bad about it. Sorry, fans."

[ryafuji 824]

7 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

IMHO, both Hakkaku and Shibatayama are stating that the situation is inexcusable for the Kyokai, not for the three yokozuna. They're really not saying much more than "We know this sucks, and we feel bad about it. Sorry, fans."

I was probably reacting to the "inexcusable" part of it. Maybe it got a little lost in translation. "Extremely inexcusable" is kind of odd now I think about it. As opposed to "somewhat inexcusable"?

Edited September 8, 2017 by ryafuji

[sekitori 492]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

IMHO, both Hakkaku and Shibatayama are stating that the situation is inexcusable for the Kyokai, not for the three yokozuna. They're really not saying much more than "We know this sucks, and we feel bad about it. Sorry, fans."

Both of these people are in a position of great influence. People in such a position who make public statements should choose their words very carefully. I agree that they should have specifically stated that the absence of three yokozunas is inexcusable for the Kyokai--but they didn't. Instead, their words somehow seemed to question the willingness of three grand champions to compete. If Shibatayama only stated that, "a Yokozuna is a human being. Showing up in bad shape will not do any good for anyone" and said nothing more,  that would adequately have described the situation of three people who desperately wanted to compete but were physically unable to. Instead, both he and Hakkaku used words that I'm quite sure unintentionally cast some doubt about that fact. 

They may only be saying that this is a bad situation, but using the words "inexcusable" and "extremely inexcusable" to describe it without further explanation to me were completely "inexcusable".

[Akinomaki 41,827]

43 minutes ago, sekitori said:

They may only be saying that this is a bad situation, but using the words "inexcusable" and "extremely inexcusable" to describe it without further explanation to me were completely "inexcusable".

That was just the standard very strong apology to the fans Hakkaku was giving, in the sense "There is really no excuse we/I have for this. Dear fans, I'm awfully sorry."

PR top Kasugano: "If the 3 ozeki won't go all out, it will be embarrassing" and  "Those disturbances make it a fun basho." No. 2 Oguruma: "Chance for the young ones. I'd like them to do a sumo that pleases the fans and lets us forget about the kyujo yokozuna." http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20170908/sum17090819500009-n1.html

Looks like no one expects much of Harumafuji.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Akinomaki

[rhyen 1,858]

Best time to hype up the next generation when there is an opportunity.

[rhyen 1,858]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

That was just the standard very strong apology to the fans Hakkaku was giving, in the sense "There is really no excuse we/I have for this. Dear fans, I'm awfully sorry."

PR top Kasugano: "If the 3 ozeki won't go all out, it will be embarrassing" and  "Those disturbances make it a fun basho." No. 2 Oguruma: "Chance for the young ones. I'd like them to do a sumo that pleases the fans and lets us forget about the kyujo yokozuna." http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20170908/sum17090819500009-n1.html

Looks like no one expects much of Harumafuji.

I think they are hedging their bets on the next generation and the ozeki trio.

If the storyline was on Harumafuji and he goes kyujo midway, they will have a hard time switching the narrative in the media.

[Bumpkin 438]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Looks like no one expects much of Harumafuji.

Not true. I expect him to Yusho. We shall see.

[Asashosakari 20,255]

3 hours ago, sekitori said:

Both of these people are in a position of great influence. People in such a position who make public statements should choose their words very carefully. I agree that they should have specifically stated that the absence of three yokozunas is inexcusable for the Kyokai--but they didn't. Instead, their words somehow seemed to question the willingness of three grand champions to compete.

What makes you think that the - Japanese - target audience for these comments found them to be ambiguous? The reaction here on the forum is hardly evidence for that, given the habit of many foreign fans to think the worst of every single Kyokai statement, no matter the actual content.

[Kintamayama 47,258]

7 hours ago, ryafuji said:

I was probably reacting to the "inexcusable" part of it. Maybe it got a little lost in translation. "Extremely inexcusable" is kind of odd now I think about it. As opposed to "somewhat inexcusable"?

The translation is spot on, sir. Maybe you give it a try:  非常に申し訳なく

[Kintamayama 47,258]

It's a totally standard template of apology to the fans, who bought a lot of tickets to see these guys, only to be disappointed. No one is blaming the rikishi, they are just saying it's regrettable -moushiwakenai, which can be translated both as regrettable  and inexcusable.. Now with three Yokozunae out, the apologies are coming from a more than usual number of Oyakatas. During the Kyokai greeting on day 1 on the dohyo, Hakkaku Oyakata will reiterate and stress this, for sure.

[sekitori 492]

3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

What makes you think that the - Japanese - target audience for these comments found them to be ambiguous? The reaction here on the forum is hardly evidence for that, given the habit of many foreign fans to think the worst of every single Kyokai statement, no matter the actual content.

Despite your suggestion that they do, I'm sure foreign fans do not think the worst of "every single Kyokai statement, no matter the actual content". That statement makes no sense. I do believe that cultural differences between Japanese and foreigners do play a part in the interpretation of some comments made by the Kyokai, especially this one. After reading this thread, I now realize stating that the absence of the yokozunas being "inexcusable" was meant to be an apology by the Kyokai to the public and I'm sure it was taken as such in Japan.

Suppose however, tnat this happened to athletes competing in American sports. What if  Clayton Kershaw, Tom Brady, or LeBron James were sidelined by injury for  quite a while and Major League Baseball, the  National Football League, or the NBA stated that their absence was inexcusable? It would lead people to believe that  becoming injured happened because the athlete did something wrong and therefore is to blame for it.  Whoever issued such a statement would be condemned by the the press, the fans, and virtually every else.  

"Inexcusable"--to Japanese a word of apology;  to Americans and other foreigners--a word of blame. Same exact word, totally different interpretation.  If nothing else, I learned a little more about Japanese culture and I'm thankful I did.

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by sekitori

[Gurowake 4,152]

I think it's a matter of the expression sometimes being used to mean "there's no excuse" and sometimes "it's regrettable", and translating and reading the translation in a vacuum can lead you to the wrong conclusion.  Those things mean very different things in English, but the expression in Japanese simply means that they can't really say anything in trying to apologize.  That can sometimes be because someone did something terrible and has no excuse for their actions, or that there's nothing they could have done differently and yet the result is poor.

[Kintamayama 47,258]

37 minutes ago, sekitori said:

 

Suppose however, tnat this happened to athletes competing in American sports. What if  Clayton Kershaw, Tom Brady, or LeBron James were sidelined by injury for  quite a while and Major League Baseball, the  National Football League, or the NBA stated that their absence was inexcusable? . It would lead people to believe that  becoming injured happened because the athlete did something wrong and therefore is to blame for it.  Whoever issued such a statement would be condemned by the the press, the fans, and virtually every else.  

 

I think that regardless of meaning and inner meaning of this or that Japanese word that may or may not have been lost in translation, no one in the NBA or the MLB would ever apologize to the fans when a major player gets injured and doesn't appear. It just won't happen-that's the cultural difference.  I can't in any scenario imagine the NBA commissioner (or the team manager/owner/coach) coming out with a statement along the lines of "We are really sorry and it is very regrettable (inexcusable) that Stephan Curry is injured and will not be playing tonight.." or whatever. Not for fear of condemnation, but simply put, pigs don't fly.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,291]

Anyway, the words sorry or inexcusable can both be used to blame or apologize, because blaming and apology are the same phrasing just the subject is different.

Roger Goodell : "Tom Brady should be sorry for his weak display against Goeido. He needs to keep moving his body forward!"

Roger Goodall: "It is inexcusable that I allowed Tom Brady to face Goeido before he was physically ready. I apologize."

The tricky bit is in Japanese the subject of the sentence is unsaid or vanishes into thin air during copy editing.

[Gurowake 4,152]

I'm not positive because I haven't actually looked at the original text in full, but I think it's a case where it's just used as a state-of-being like "it is raining".  "It is the fact that there's nothing to be said as an apology/excuse"