Asa in hot water again?

[Asashosakari 20,249]

The problem is he still sees himself wrongfully accused (If you consider the soccer match was a charity event involving Mongolian and Japanese children plus a famous Japanese star , I see him wrongfully accused too).

One thing to mention here is that one of the jungyo stops he was going to skip was a charity event, too. (It took place today.)

[Jonosuke 28]

What does Kinshin mean ? Punition ? (In jonokuchi...)

It means atoning for your sins by refraining youself from regular activities.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

Thank you for your translation of the article. If you are willing to translate more things from the Mongolian press, that would be very good for all of us and highly appreciated.

you're welcome.

Seems like Mrs Purevbadam (Asa's mom) is family spokesperson. She gave 3-4 interview regarding the case. Maybe she is more accessible by media than men who are closed into their shell

http://www.sonin.mn/?p=13030

http://www.sonin.mn/?p=13039

[Coo-cook 0]

The problem is he still sees himself wrongfully accused (If you consider the soccer match was a charity event involving Mongolian and Japanese children plus a famous Japanese star , I see him wrongfully accused too).

One thing to mention here is that one of the jungyo stops he was going to skip was a charity event, too. (It took place today.)

I thought he had an official excuse from Jungyo, and he is not accused of not participating in Jungyo.

So, what are the exact accusation points?....not being in hospital while injured?....faking his injuries ?.......participating non-sumo related events without Kyokai's or oyokata's approval ?....

Edited August 8, 2007 by Coo-cook

[Kintamayama 47,226]

So, what are the exact accusation points?....not being in hospital while injured?....faking his injuries ?.......participating non-sumo related events without Kyokai's or oyokata's approval ?....

All of the above, plus being excused from jungyo BECAUSE he was injured , and then going to Mongolia and playing soccer.

[Jonosuke 28]

Asashoryu's shisho Takasago oyakata indicated he would meet once again with Asashoryu on August 9. This would be his second meeting in person with Asashoryu since the Kyokai Directors handed out two basho suspension and fine to the yokozuna.

"I will personally talk to him again. He won't get better staying in his home all day. It's the only way out of this so please give us a little more time," the oyakata said.

Kyokai chairman Kitanoumi oyakata has been on vacation and will return on August 9. Upon his return he will review the recent developments and he could decide to convene a special meeting of Kyokai directors to discuss Asashoryu's request to go home to continue the treatment though this possiblity is getting more and more unlikely.

Most directors and oyakata are steadfastly refusing to allow Asashoryu to return to Mongolia when other high ranking rikishi are working hard under hot summer sun on Jyungyo tour. "If he wants to go back to Mongolia that desparately then let him send us a petition," Takadagawa oyakata, Jyungyo Assistant Director said.

Jyungyo Director Oshima oyakata was in no mood to sympathize with Takasago oyakata's plight. "There is something wrong with him. What has been doing up to now? Why has he seen Asashoryu only once? He has a rikishi feeling low. What he needs to do is to get him sweat a lot to get his energy back. I can't understand why he won't drag him out on a training dohyo and get him work out. After all we are talking about a rikishi who has been kicking a soccer ball around not many days ago. I can't really figure him out, " Oshima oyakata said. "I have no doubt the majority of directors and oyakata feel exactly the same way."

Despite having overwhelming oyakata refusing to take more lenient position towards Asashoryu, Kitanoumi oyakata may oermit Asashoryu to return to Mongolia if a medical opinion favors it. He understands Takasago oyakata would be facing an untenable position if he asks the yokozuna to be hospitalized in Japan and the yokozuna ask to be treated in Mongolia, nowhere else.

"Another Directors meeting? Well even if they decided to have another one, I am still against letting Asashoryu go back to Mongolia. We have come to a conclusion already and handed out a ruling. Anyway around here (in Jyungyo tour), we are all working so hard under extremely hot and humid conditions, we don't even have a time to worry about him," Oshima oyakata added.

[troutbum 0]

But I don't really understand the all negativity towards Asa. The Japanese public or wanna be japanese, seems to have their own view but the man really has tried everything to please the Japanese public and Kyokai.

Actually this is not exactly true. If Asashoryu has done one thing, just one thing, after this whole news broke, he could have come back from Mongolia as quickly as he could (instead he did only after summoned back by his shisho and the Kyokai heads).

He could have gathered reporters around and stood up and apologized for his misbehaviour. People whether Japanese or not can be forgiven and magnanimous if they see a person truly repentant of his sin. That in itself leads to his redemption. Asashoryu truly needs to be embraced by Japanese public in this trying time. He needs warm and generous support. But he could only receive it if he can come out clean and honest with himself and sumo fans. Instead of hiding behind the veil of silence, if he has done all that, he could have risen above all this and could have the people pulling for him to come back strong.

Obviously he has done none of this. There was a great opportunity for him to turn from a villain to a babyface overnight by coming out sincere and straight. Asashoryu has shown in the past he could be a real charmer and likable character when he works at it. I believe he still can but the window is ever growing narrower. If he can truly rise above from this and be embraced warmly by people, he can become truly the greatest yokozuna of all time in every aspect. There were many yokozuna who did not become a yokozuna at his age so he still has a lot more possibilities.

Yet at the moment he is fallind into a downward spiral, not speaking out, not eating, not asking for help. Asashoryu has to realize that if he does not come out of this soon, he will have no chance of coming back on the dohyo. Almost six months of non-activity will kill any chance of ever coming back. Asashoryu has never been physically big but he played tough and ramble style of sumo. Rather than pushing out his opponent, he went out and tried to lift him and throw him down. His intention was to bring a fear into his opponents mind. That may have been effective but it took so much toll on his body. It's never easy to play that way against rikishi like Iwakiyama, Miyabiyama or Kotomitsuki for so long.

In recent years his training level has diminished considerably as he tried to rest from all that nagging injuries he suffered through years of physical abuse. But for a smaller rikishi this could become fatal. And I believe without sufficient motivation and intensity, six months of inactivity would kill any chance of him coming back strong. He has to find a goal, something to prove to everyone. Obviously right now he has not shown any of it. How long this can keep going on?

One thing he wanted more than anything else was to have the people acknowledge him as a great yokozuna. His record shows he is one but in every other aspect he knows himself the people haven't come around to believe he is the one. To be truly acknowledged as one, he will need the sumo fans to cheer for him, pulling for him. It is still possible but he has to change his way of thinking. He needs to have a courage to tell people that he has made errors and to pledge he would do everything in his power to prove he is worthy of their respect and support.

Without it and to salvage his all accomplishments, the only recourse left for him is to retire gracefully sooner the better.

Look if people get into a depression, they cannot get out of it by themselves.

Depression or the probability to get into a depression is most likely as we know

genetically inherited. Now the yokozuna is obviously more prone for this.

To even blame him for this is rediculous.

Before punishing someone in at least for westerners seemingly inhumane way

one should evaluate what the effects may be on the persons physical and mental health.

Obviously the sumo organization failed to do this, although this can be done today.

To punish someone for a mistake is one thing

but to destroy the person deliberatly leaves a very bad impression on the character of the

people running the sumo organization and on japanese society as a whole.

[Kintamayama 47,226]

"I will not be presenting the health certificate. The problem is mine and Asashouryuu's..", said Takasago Oyakata. After days of talk about reconvening the rijikai in order to get some kind of discount on the sentence, it seems Takasago Oyakata has had a change of heart. This probably stems from the fact that he has been sent messages by some Oyakata that leave him no choice. Takadagawa and Ooshima have indicated plainly that there is no way the rijikai will change any of its views and allow for any leniency. "Funny , this guy Takasago. He's managed to meet his deshi only once in all this time?? ", said Ooshima of his handling of the affairs. "I'd be pulling the deshi into the keikoba and making him sweat. That would be the perfect remedy for his "stress..", he added. Ooshima himself has just come off a salary cut due to the indiscretion of his deshi Kyokutenhou, but he donned a mawashi himself during the suspension and worked 10-ho daily. "The thought that a physician's diagnosis can overturn a rijikai's decision is funny..", said Takadagawa.

So, true for these few moments, it looks like the rijikai will not convene because Takasago will not ask for it, knowing that there is no chance to get any kind of leniency as things are at the moment.

But what is better? Size or technique?

Edited August 9, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

"Funny , this guy Takasago. He's managed to meet his deshi only once in all this time?? ", said Ooshima of his handling of the affairs. "I'd be pulling the deshi into the keiko ba and making him sweat. That would be the perfect remedy for his "stress..", he added. Ooshima himself has just come off a salary cut due to the indiscretion of his deshi Kyokutenhou, but he donned a mawashi himself during the suspension and worked 10-ho daily. "The thought that a physician's diagnosis can overturn a rijikai's decision is funny..", said Takadagawa.

I got a feeling that these guys are bunch of arseloch, their speech is rude, backward and not intelligent

some questions

Who has higher ranking ?

Takasago Oyakata or Yokozuna Asashouryu

Who is the bread winner?

Takasago Oyakata or Yokozuna Asashouryu

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What was the highest achievement of these oyakata Takadagawa, oyakata Takasago and oyakata Ooshima on the sumo ring?

Edited August 9, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[XiaoTan 93]

Who has higher ranking ?

Takasago Oyakata or Yokozuna Asashouryu

Who is the bread winner?

Takasago Oyakata or Yokozuna Asashouryu

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What was the highest achievement of these oyakata Takadagawa, oyakata Takasago and oyakata Ooshima on the sumo ring?

Well since Takasago Oyakata is the stablemaster so to speak supervisor of Yokozuna Asashoryu, he certainly has a much higher ranking, regardless of much money Asashoryu earns.

Lookign at it from a family perspective, you'd still be asked to listen to your father, even if you outshine hime professionally and earn more money than he ever did.

[Afrozuna 8]

I can't understand why he won't drag him out on a training dohyo and get work out. After all we are talking about a rikishi who has been kicking a soccer ball around not many days ago. I can't really figure him out, " Oshima oyakata said. "I have no doubt the majority of directors and oyakata feel exactly the same way."

What a dumb comment from Oshima Oyakata. If the reason for Asashoryu skipping the Jungyo Tour was injury how can he be doing keiko and working out on the dyoho. It would only confirm that the Yokozuna lied about his injuries.

[Kintamayama 47,226]

Just for fun, some past scandal concerning jungyo and Japanese rikishi getting chewed out..interesting thread , especially for those who think this is all about Asashouryuu.

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=12085

[Sashohitowa 6]

"Funny , this guy Takasago. He's managed to meet his deshi only once in all this time?? ", said Ooshima of his handling of the affairs. "I'd be pulling the deshi into the keiko ba and making him sweat. That would be the perfect remedy for his "stress..", he added. Ooshima himself has just come off a salary cut due to the indiscretion of his deshi Kyokutenhou, but he donned a mawashi himself during the suspension and worked 10-ho daily. "The thought that a physician's diagnosis can overturn a rijikai's decision is funny..", said Takadagawa.

I got a feeling that these guys are bunch of arseloch, their speech is rude, backward and not intelligent

some questions

Who has higher ranking ?

Takasago Oyakata or Yokozuna Asashouryu

Who is the bread winner?

Takasago Oyakata or Yokozuna Asashouryu

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What was the highest achievement of these oyakata Takadagawa, oyakata Takasago and oyakata Ooshima on the sumo ring?

Here you can find the basic info for the oyakatas:

http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/eng/ozumo_meikan/kyo...ata/oyakata.php

Both three mentioned by you are former Ozeki.

And current employers of Asashoryu. (I didn't understand fully the meaning of the question for the bread winner, but I hope this can be counted as an answer of it..)

Something more, Ikh:

I would like to let you know that most of your posts exhail a strange feeling that you speak on behalf of The Only Truth. Your oppinions are imperative, your questions are rhetorical. Your goal seems to be not to add value to a elaborate on a discussion, but to convince the other in your rightness.

I don't want to go further in any attempts for profiling you. I just want to let you know what is the impression that you make.

Edited August 9, 2007 by Sashohikufuhen

[Kintamayama 47,226]

"Maybe I should pull him out and force him to meet the press", pondered Takasago Oyakata. "It's not that he can't speak.. Even if we go for hospitalization, he'd have to meet the public. We've got to do SOMETHING..." This suggestion was dismissed by Dr. Yoshida from the Sumo clinic. "I think it would be extremely difficult for him to be interviewed.. He can't speak!!" All eyes are on a possible second meeting between Oyakata and deshi. "I do not intend to present rijicho with the medical certificate. I may consider it if asked..", reiterated the Oyakata.

[Kintamayama 47,226]

What a dumb comment from Oshima Oyakata. If the reason for Asashoryu skipping the Jungyo Tour was injury how can he be doing keiko and working out on the dyoho. It would only confirm that the Yokozuna lied about his injuries.

Well, how about he organize a rikishi-Oyakata soccer match? It surely would improve some out of shape Oyakatas' physical state..

[Chiyozakura 163]

I can't understand why he won't drag him out on a training dohyo and get work out. After all we are talking about a rikishi who has been kicking a soccer ball around not many days ago. I can't really figure him out, " Oshima oyakata said. "I have no doubt the majority of directors and oyakata feel exactly the same way."

What a dumb comment from Oshima Oyakata. If the reason for Asashoryu skipping the Jungyo Tour was injury how can he be doing keiko and working out on the dyoho. It would only confirm that the Yokozuna lied about his injuries.

What a dumb comment from maegashira-yusho. If the reason for all this mess was Asashoryu lively playing soccer he should have no problem excercising at least some parts of his body. It would only prove that Asashoryu took an unreasonable risk by palying soccer in an extremely rundown condition... :-/

I really find it funny how generally, explicitely not based on the above cited post, Asashoryu's defender in this forum try to justify his actions before actually asking for the mechanisms behind sumo community and the jungyo system.

[yamaneko 2]

Im still not understanding why asa is in such a mental state. Granted, im one of the few who feel he got the short end of the stick on this whole thing as far as punishing equaling severity of the "crime." But look at all of the complete psychos in american sports.

Ron artest banned for a year. This guy has ALWAYS been a headcase. But when the worst in the NBA history punishment was leveled on him, you didnt see him going crazy. He wasnt house ridden, but i believe the suspension cost him millions of dollars unlike asa's.

Crazyman pacman jones of the NFL, banned for a year because of his off the field incidents. You dont see him moping around speechless..matter of fact he just joined some pro wrestling league to bide time until reinstatement.

These guys are complete headcases...something i dont think asashoryu is. If they were confined to quarters (would never happen of course), and only allowed to practice, but still able to keep their regular salary just downgraded, i dont even think they would have such a reaction. Actually, part of their punishments is that they cant practice with their teammates.

Anyway, I find it quite disturbing that asa is reacting this way, like its the end of the world. This is something i would expect from....say..brittney spears or paris hilton or something.

[paolo 0]

"I will not be presenting the health certificate. The problem is mine and Asashouryuu's..", said Takasago Oyakata. After days of talk about reconvening the rijikai in order to get some kind of discount on the sentence, it seems Takasago Oyakata has had a change of heart. This probably stems from the fact that he has been sent messages by some Oyakata that leave him no choice. Takadagawa and Ooshima have indicated plainly that there is no way the rijikai will change any of its views and allow for any leniency. "Funny , this guy Takasago. He's managed to meet his deshi only once in all this time?? ", said Ooshima of his handling of the affairs.......

.............. So, true for these few moments, it looks like the rijikai will not convene because Takasago will not ask for it, knowing that there is no chance to get any kind of leniency as things are at the moment.

But what is better? Size or technique?

In my opinion, Takasago perfectly knows that he must move with care. Apart from any other considerations, Asashoryu is his "hen of the golden eggs" as we say in Italy, that is the man who produces money for him, and he has to try everything he can to put a remedy to this very very

dangerous situation. It is hard to believe that he visited Asashoryu only once in these days (can that be true?). Anyway Takasago needs to do everything he can to have Asashoryu back again and able to be the great Asashoryu (otherwise everything would be meaningless). This means first of all to make him personally come out of his "depression or pre-depression or sadness or deep stress or whatever it is" condition, and then to try and reestablish an acceptable relationship between Asashoryu and the Kyokai and between the Kyokai and Asashoryu. Some main points are: are the Kyokai REALLY willing to accept Asashoryu back after the punishment has been paid for ? Is Asashoryu ready to say he admits he has made a mistake and accepts the punishment ? Are the Kyokai ready to accept these words WITHOUT requiring him to be on his knees (that, in my opinion and by the way, would not be a yokozuna-like behaviour...) ?. If all the answers are YES, something can still be done to save the situation. Otherwise the game is over.

Therefore: asking that Asashoryu is allowed to go to Mongolia now, even if it might be perfectly justified in medical terms, could be "politically" inappropriate; moreover, if Takasago already knows or has a suspicion that many are not in favour, it would be a suicide.

Let me add a word. I do not understand why there is so strong an accent on the words "humbly" ,

"apologize unreservedly" and so on. A man is a man and can make mistakes. Asashoryu for sure made one. But we must also keep into consideration that he was not dancing in a discoteque or around to have good time with girls. He was doing a charity activity, that he was asked by his government with insistence and that in a first time he refused to do. Undoubtedly he made a mistake, even bigger considering all the circumstances (the medical certificate, the jungyo and so on) and he was punished in a very very severe way. Acknowledging that should be enough. Why should he be humiliated ? Would the Kyokai like to see a Yokozuna humiliated ?

............

"I'd be pulling the deshi into the keikoba and making him sweat. That would be the perfect remedy for his "stress..", he added. Ooshima himself has just come off a salary cut due to the indiscretion of his deshi Kyokutenhou, but he donned a mawashi himself during the suspension and worked 10-ho daily. "The thought that a physician's diagnosis can overturn a rijikai's decision is funny..", said Takadagawa...........

Suffice it to say that these two comments are really humanly unbelievable.

[Jonosuke 28]

Takasago oyakata talked to reporters after meeting Asashoryu at his home today. Takasago oyakata looked pretty exasperated and in occasion on verge of a nervous breakdown himself, admitting he could not get Asashoryu to go to a hospital for treatment.

"I have failed to convince him. He refused to be hospitalized. So we will continue to have him receive a treatment at his home but I have not given up on talking to him (to convince him)," Takasago oyakata said.

More than anything else this sums up the relationship between this oyakata and his deshi, Asashoryu. Even in a state of mind he is, Asashoryu is still the boss and the man who controls his own destiny. Often in Ozumo, the oyakata is portrayed as a god and master and his recruits listen to his every word and obey his orders. Obviously in this case, this is not true at all.

Both Takasago oyakata and Rijicho Kitanoumi oyakata are aware that they must keep treading this dangerous path very gingerly. They are aware that under the current climate within the Kyokai they cannot give any more leeway to Asashoryu. For instance if Asashoryu insists he would need to return to Mongolia, the majority of rank and file oyakata will call for his retirement before he can leave. There is so much resentment towards Asashoryu for causing the current turmoil.

Takasago oyakata looked somewhat relieved that Asashoryu did not stick to the point. Instead the oyakata said Asashoryu forcefully expressed his view to him and appeared to respond to his questions reasonably. He knows that he dodged a bullet today by not having Asashoryu insist on his wish to return to Mongolia. At least having agree to stay at his home and not having Asashoryu going to the extreme will buy Takasago oyakata some time and space.

But the situation is still precarious and can turn one way or another any moment as Asashoryu does not appear to be listening to anyone's advice and his mental state can be best described as unstable.

[Kotoku 0]

I have not read this whole mess, cause I am on the world's slowest computer up in the green triangle in northern California. But a few comments. Jungyo as it is now, is nothing like it was as recently as 15 years ago. Asashoryu -- to my eyes -- is the best yokozuna since Chiyonofuji. He brings real excitement to the dohyo, unlike his new rival.

Different cultures have different norms and rules. Asa seems to be from a place that is not as uptight about form as the kyokai's take on reality. I think he is a tremendous yokozuna, one who truly personifies the kami aspect of the position. YMMV...

Noddatroll...

Edited August 9, 2007 by Kotoku

[paolo 0]

... For instance if Asashoryu insists he would need to return to Mongolia ...

Interesting point. I thought that it had only been the doctors to say that he had to go to Mongolia. Was it Asashoryu to ask to go to Mongolia ? There is a certain difference between the two cases !

[Kintamayama 47,226]

... For instance if Asashoryu insists he would need to return to Mongolia ...

Interesting point. I thought that it had only been the doctors to say that he had to go to Mongolia. Was it Asashoryu to ask to go to Mongolia ? There is a certain difference between the two cases !

My take on this is that Asa is dictating his wishes and the various "messengers" are doing the service. The very first episode of this saga, i.e. that "excuse" note diagnosing six weeks of rest when anyone in his right mind can see that he's not THAT injured was also "ordered".

No, I can't prove anything, but it seems to me quite plausible. I can even understand the reasons behind this and sympathize with them.

The carelessness is what kills me.

[Kintamayama 47,226]

Off topic for a second here..

"I don't think i like the yokozuna much anymo. Seems to lack hinka ku a lot.

Also acts like an insecure toddler. "

Quiz: Who wrote that (all typos in the original). Written three months ago..

A. Me

B. Nishinoshima

C. Asashosakari

D. Kaikitsune person

E.one of the many fervent Asa-haters on this forum.

F- A certain Asa diehard fan who has lost it?

Correct answer: F!!

Isn't that exactly what us "Asa-bashing anti-trolling autocratic mindsetted typically insecure dictators" have been pointing out lately?

I will not name him, so as not to cause him further embarassment..

Edited August 9, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Mainokaze 0]

I'm really tired of reading the excuse that what Asa did was alright because it was for a charity event. I think the phrase "Two wrongs don't make a right." is appropriate here. It doesn't matter if it was for a charity event or not. He was injured, and excused himself from the jungyo. He should have excused himself from this event as well. Those defending him who say his injuries didn't stop him from playing soccer seem to be forgetting his back injury. Injured backs are painful! Running with one must have hurt, and a friend with a bad back said she's not surprised he fell trying to play soccer with such an injury. He probably made both injuries worse and lengthened the time needed for his recovery. His decision to do the event was bad both professionally and personally. He was injured and should have been recooperating, not participating in a sports event.

[Kotonosato 1]

I'm really tired of reading the excuse that what Asa did was alright because it was for a charity event. I think the phrase "Two wrongs don't make a right." is appropriate here. It doesn't matter if it was for a charity event or not. He was injured, and excused himself from the jungyo. He should have excused himself from this event as well. Those defending him who say his injuries didn't stop him from playing soccer seem to be forgetting his back injury. Injured backs are painful! Running with one must have hurt, and a friend with a bad back said she's not surprised he fell trying to play soccer with such an injury. He probably made both injuries worse and lengthened the time needed for his recovery. His decision to do the event was bad both professionally and personally. He was injured and should have been recooperating, not participating in a sports event.

Four hundred posts later and you guys are still arguing this aspect? Give it up already! We've moved on, haven't we?