Gaijin, Gaijin Everywhere . . .

[madorosumaru 7]

As the Ancient Mariner bemoaned, "Water, water everywhere . . .," traditional Japanese are wailing, "Gaijin, gaijin everywhere"--that is, in the Kokugikan.

In a recent blog called the "Ramblings of the Editorial Staff," an editor of the conservative political magazine, "Seiron," wrote that he was beseeched by a Korean colleague to attend a sumo tournament: "Please, please. I want to see live sumo at least once before they send me home."

Off the two went to Ryogoku Kokugikan for Hatsu Basho. Lo and behold, all around them were gaijin. "Caucasians, blacks, Middle Easterners? . . . Maybe, it was because we were in the chair seats but it was hard to find any Japanese spectators near us. There were that many foreigners. I know there are a lot of gaijin at the Kabuki shows but not like this! I guess, it's because sumo is an easy sport to understand."

He then went on to explain how foreigners have dominated on the dohyo also. Sumo's popularity was down but now it has been internationalized. "The gaijin have added thier individual flavor and have made sumo more interesting. At this point, it has gone beyond the criticisms of 'This is Japan's national sport' or 'Foreigner lack the basic decorum necessary in sumo.'"

"Be that as it may," he continued. "The gaijin fans are extremely knowledgeable about sumo. My Korean friend apparently had been watching NHK telecasts even when he was back in Seoul. In any case, he would explain to me such trhings as rikishi's background, favorite waza and their records. I suppose, that's the reality of the times . . ."

Yep, gaijin are the albatross of sumo. Whether the traditionists like it or not, they will be around--a weighty presence around the neck.

[ilovesumo 12]

Indeed, many Gaikokujin , including me (Laughing...)

I was listening to some knowledge, the one expert in the group was explaining to the others. I could also see a bored wife and a

princess-daughter, not wanting to see these fat men... (Clapping wildly...) -and, gaikokujin-economy-bosses in front of the Dohyo. What I dislike is, that the most japanese there, the ones coming for having dinner at the Kokugikan...,think the Gaikokujin know nothing-and if they talk to them, they talk like to children.

The bad thing about being a Gaijin in the Kokugikan- those females, dressed like police women, kicking everybody off the stairs from the beginning of Juryo. Especially Gaijin are kicked- very fast. I once had to leave the seat, but wanted to watch my favorite Sekitori from the stairs- I wasn't standing, not in anybody'S way, not trying to take a picture from there, explained her I will leave as soon as the bout is over- but she just stood in my view... -I did ran up the stairs for a few meters and watched from there.

They should be happy about the Gaijin- they do pay and the seats aren't that empty.

[SalParadise 0]

The bad thing about being a Gaijin in the Kokugikan- those females, dressed like police women, kicking everybody off the stairs from the beginning of Juryo. Especially Gaijin are kicked- very fast. I once had to leave the seat, but wanted to watch my favorite Sekitori from the stairs- I wasn't standing, not in anybody'S way, not trying to take a picture from there, explained her I will leave as soon as the bout is over- but she just stood in my view... -I did ran up the stairs for a few meters and watched from there.

I'm sorry to make a slight tangent from this thread, but you do realize that the ushers are paid to do just that? It's their job. You seem to know it's their job. You want that rule not to apply to you because it's your favourite sekitori. It sounds like you want a special privelege not granted to the Japanese, just because you're foreign. That isn't right either.

[ilovesumo 12]

The bad thing about being a Gaijin in the Kokugikan- those females, dressed like police women, kicking everybody off the stairs from the beginning of Juryo. Especially Gaijin are kicked- very fast. I once had to leave the seat, but wanted to watch my favorite Sekitori from the stairs- I wasn't standing, not in anybody'S way, not trying to take a picture from there, explained her I will leave as soon as the bout is over- but she just stood in my view... -I did ran up the stairs for a few meters and watched from there.

I'm sorry to make a slight tangent from this thread, but you do realize that the ushers are paid to do just that? It's their job. You seem to know it's their job. You want that rule not to apply to you because it's your favourite sekitori. It sounds like you want a special privelege not granted to the Japanese, just because you're foreign. That isn't right either.

Just imagine- you wait for one bout the whole day, then it is up and in this moment you are kicked. You rush, others want to see too, so you rush more, then you hear "matanash" -you stop, down, look- and they come.

It is their job, yes, I want no privilege nor anything else but want to see THAT bout. After explanation, it should be ok- cause no way back after the Gyoji's comment. Where to go in that moment? Can't fly nor become invisible.

Sumo might be conservative, sumo might be stone-headed but sumo ain't racist.

I don't say that! Sumo isn't racist.

And I know that everybody starts with being a fan and nobody ever learns out. What I was laughing about was the guy, sitting beside the head Shinpan, very close, taking pictures- getting closer and closer- then the Shinpan gave a sign to the Yobidashi and one came to tell him not to do. - Breathing into somebody's ear isn't good- foreigner or not. Distance please.

Edited January 26, 2007 by ilovesumo

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Just imagine- you wait for one bout the whole day, then it is up and in this moment you are kicked. You rush, others want to see too, so you rush more, then you hear "matanash" -you stop, down, look- and they come.

It is their job, yes, I want no privilege nor anything else but want to see THAT bout. After explanation, it should be ok- cause no way back after the Gyoji's comment. Where to go in that moment? Can't fly nor become invisible.

You wait in your seat for the bout you want to see most. I've done it. So have many others here. Even after drinking those bladder-buster bottles of beer, sharing sake with nice fellows in the next box, needing desperately to get to the loo, but waiting just to see the match-of-the-day. Then you rush off and wait in line to relieve yourself, buy more brewskis, and enjoy conversation with some of the most relaxed locals you'll ever meet.

[SalParadise 0]

Just imagine- you wait for one bout the whole day, then it is up and in this moment you are kicked. You rush, others want to see too, so you rush more, then you hear "matanash" -you stop, down, look- and they come.

It is their job, yes, I want no privilege nor anything else but want to see THAT bout. After explanation, it should be ok- cause no way back after the Gyoji's comment. Where to go in that moment? Can't fly nor become invisible.

Pardon me for being a tad less friendly, but... you DO want a privelege. People are not allowed to stand on the stairs. These people are hired to keep people off those stairs. You want them to ignore their job, and the rules for THAT bout, rather than watching it from your seat like the hundreds of other fans of that rikishi. That is asking for special treatment. Deal with it.

Need to be close? Buy Masu A seats, or try for the tamari-seki. Need to see your favourite rikishi up close? Go on senshuuraku, and pay to go to their enkai afterwards. Asking to be allowed to stand when it is against the rules is rude and disrespectful of the people who are behind you and around you, of the people paid to keep those stairs clear, and it's just embarrassing when someone tries to justify it.

[ilovesumo 12]

Conversations happen. Nice ones and not so nice ones.

The sad thing about the nice conversations is, that they mostly happen before the Sekitori bout's start. You are happy chatting, but more and more Chaya guys come- if it's the seat you are in, you just can say sorry and bye ,very quick- you can't take them with you. I gave up on searching for seats after Juryo Dohyo iri for 2 reasons- not wanted to get kicked again because that is always a bad feeling- blushing, you know what I mean...and a very biological one- at least my ass hurts after hours, so it's nice to stand for a while. Try not to stand at the exit cause people go in and out all the time. On 2 sides there are chair-seat-boxes with a little table in the last row of the first floor- sure you can't stand there. Best place is behind the cameras. And in the west area, you find the japanese hardcore fans because the rikishi pass there-and sometimes they come in too, to see what's going on. (Clapping wildly...)

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

What I was laughing about was the guy, sitting beside the head Shinpan, very close, taking pictures- getting closer and closer- then the Shinpan gave a sign to the Yobidashi and one came to tell him not to do.

That was not what I was referring to. I didn't even see that incident. I was talking about the two French guys outside the K'kan you were so rude to (to pick just one example).

As Otoko-san said, if you really really want to watch a bout then don't sit or stand in a place where you are sure to be moved. Common sense.

I've actually been cut some slack at a honbasho when standing in an aisle, as the usher probably figured I couldn't understand (even thought the gestures to go sit down were pretty obvious). I've found event staff exceptionally reasonable and accomodating (even when I'm impersonating the press/stable personnel trying to get somewhere I shouldn't be). Being foreign tends to be an advantage in these situations. Bad experiences are surely an exception, not the rule.

[SalParadise 0]

Conversations happen. Nice ones and not so nice ones.

The sad thing about the nice conversations is, that they mostly happen before the Sekitori bout's start. You are happy chatting, but more and more Chaya guys come- if it's the seat you are in, you just can say sorry and bye ,very quick- you can't take them with you. I gave up on searching for seats after Juryo Dohyo iri for 2 reasons- not wanted to get kicked again because that is always a bad feeling- blushing, you know what I mean...and a very biological one- at least my ass hurts after hours, so it's nice to stand for a while. Try not to stand at the exit cause people go in and out all the time. On 2 sides there are chair-seat-boxes with a little table in the last row of the first floor- sure you can't stand there. Best place is behind the cameras. And in the west area, you find the japanese hardcore fans because the rikishi pass there-and sometimes they come in too, to see what's going on. :-)

Ever thought, maybe, that you should time your breaks and go for a walk after the dohyo-iri but before Makuuchi starts? Or perhaps during the intermission when they clean the ring? Or between the Juryo dohyo-iri and the first Juryo match?

And maybe, just maybe, you could even BUY seats that are close instead of complaining when people people who paid for them come?

I know this is a lot to ask...

[ilovesumo 12]

Bad experiences are surely an exception, not the rule.

Yes. I guess it won't happen again that somebody great's me with "Heil Hxxxx " finding out that I am german.

Many people are nice and rules are rules. Hai. :-)

And when your seat is in the second floor,cause you are young,student and don't have money to have a ringside seat fwhen the 15 days ticket costs just a bit more then one of the good seats for only one day, you just can't go to your seat in the 10 seconds before tachi ai.

Ever thought, maybe, that you should time your breaks and go for a walk after the dohyo-iri but before Makuuchi starts? Or perhaps during the intermission when they clean the ring? Or between the Juryo dohyo-iri and the first Juryo match?

And maybe, just maybe, you could even BUY seats that are close instead of complaining when people people who paid for them come?

I know this is a lot to ask...

I do say "Hai, sumimasen" and am away in the next seconds. It is embarrassing and I don't complain.

Edited January 26, 2007 by ilovesumo

[Fay 1,677]

I completely agree with John and Otokonoyama. I really can't stand it anymore, this talk about japanese who don't like foreigners and talk mean about them and about foreigners who don't behave correctly in the KK.

I've been now in Japan for four times to see a basho and I still have a completely different view. I talked with my poor japanese or the help of my friend to other japanese fans, to rikishi and oyakata. Telling them I only come to Japan to see the basho was quite astonishing for them but all liked it and all were extremely helpful and welcoming.

And who am I to judge about other peoples behaviour? I am not the Mrs Knigge of the KK. If people do something wrong, the yobidashi will come and tell them, very seldom and very politely and to foreigners as to japanese people. On days where I don't have my favourite seat I know when I have to leave to see the bouts I want to see - which are nearly all. I don't leave in the last second, let all people wait until I packed my clothes together, or stay on the chairs and in the way of the people who want to reach their seats or the helpers who carry all the food along.

I strongly believe - and i got this experience in all countries i have been to - if you are nice and and polite to people, most of them will react in the same way to you.

[ilovesumo 12]

Yes you are right.

[Shibouyama 1]

And when your seat is in the second floor,cause you are young,student and don't have money to have a ringside seat fwhen the 15 days ticket costs just a bit more then one of the good seats for only one day, you just can't go to your seat in the 10 seconds before tachi ai.

Personally, I've never had the nerve to even go down to the lower level. I feel a little guilty just sneaking into the absolute highest row of masu seki (having paid only for a chair seat). If they are almost all empty I can relax, but if they start filling up a bit, I get nervous. I can't imagine going down to the good, good seats and getting bumped more than once.

It seems to me that takes a bit of nerve. No need to play the victim.

[Petr 0]

I came to see my first live Ozumo this basho before twelve. I had a ticket for a place in the third row of zabutons around dohyou. When I arrived I was really surprised that these super seats were heavily occupied by gaijin (mostly women). However, they were gradually replaced by elderly Japanese men and there was no other Caucassian around dohyou for Makuuchi bouts.

[Randomitsuki 2,898]

Personally, I've never had the nerve to even go down to the lower level. I feel a little guilty just sneaking into the absolute highest row of masu seki (having paid only for a chair seat). If they are almost all empty I can relax, but if they start filling up a bit, I get nervous. I can't imagine going down to the good, good seats and getting bumped more than once.

That's interesting because I felt exactly the same. When I was at KKan Nishinoshima asked me several times if I wouldn't want to go closer to the action, and I was at first foolish enough to say things like "Oh no, I feel perfectly fine here". I was wondering if it isn't regarded as impolite to sit ring-side, and if it might create or just fit into potentially xenophobic sentiments.

So what do Japanese say or think when they see gaijin viewers on seats they obviously havent's paid for? Is it OK, is it frowned upon?

[Jonosuke 28]

If you observe the protocols of sitting in the Sunakaburi section, there should be no problem - i.e. no talking too loud, no eating, no drinking, no sleeping, no messing of cushions, no lying on the floor or stepping on cushions with your shoes or sit there facing backwards so you could be in a picture while rikihis are competing.

Also if you want to take pictures and you get very close to the dohyo, one of the yobidashi boys will come over to tell you that you are too close to the dohyo and can be dangerous.

Howerver regardless of you have a ticket or not, if one of the shimpans find your conduct or presence objectional, they will just get a yobidashi guy to tell you to leave so as long as no one is telling you to leave after sitting down, you can just pretend as if you own the whole joint and no one should bother you.

Though I do not look like a gaikoku-jin, I buy a day ticket which gives me a free seat on the last row of the Kokugikan, I ususally sit on a row behind a shimpan around till Juryo dohyo-iri. But I don't believe anyone can sit on the section the whole day from 9 AM till 6 PM unless you are on an extreme diet regimen. In my case by 2 PM or so my back will start complaining.

When you look at those people with a Sunakaburi section, they often don't show up till Makuuchi or Yokozuna dohyo-iri. Even if they come earlier, they go to a restaurant in the Kokugikan to have a light meal and drink as you can not eat there.

[Fay 1,677]

Yes Jonosuke is right, from the early morning until midjuryo nearly none of the places is taken by the ticket owner. And I don't think they care much if there is sitting a japanese or a foreigner as long as you follow the rules.

Nevertheless I feel a bit uncomfortable to sit there on days I couldn't get a tamari ticket so I try to get as much as possible and sponsor the Kyokai ;-).

[Kintamayama 47,226]

I just asked people "who know" and did what Joe said. I've been to a few basho days and never have I encountered any sort of problem from anyone. OTOH, I always did what I was told to do, regardless of the uniforms and sex of those that told me. I have a regular "agenda". 9 am till about 12-cushions, and occasionally checking out the Kkan shops, returning to a farther cushion.. 12:00-13:00-go out to the tenya under the station bridge for lunch, then the Airscafe for internet. 13:00- 15:00- masu seats on shoumen according to availability. Last time I was there in May, all of the masu seats I chose were not taken till the end. We call it "Masu-lotto". If they get taken, up to the nose bleeds whilst taking a walk every half an hour so my back doesn't die. Yes, I do miss some of the action, but usually it's mid-sandanme.

In any case, as Joe said, as long as you follow the rules, you should never had any problems.AND, many Japanese do it too.

There are, however, some foreigners with better manners than thou who will lecture you forever about how it's not to be done.

I just tell them "So don't do it!" and go eat some more sand.

Edited January 26, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Gacktoh 0]

It is not allowed to take photos at Tamari seki (see the ticket of tamari), ;-)

but Yobidasi or Shinpan do not say much.

The first and second row(or more) of tamari are for Ijiin　（維持員席） at KK, Nagoya-Tamari-kai at Aichiken-taikukan, Touzaikai at Osaka furitsu Taiiku-kan. The other rows of tamari are managed by Ochaya. Ochaya do not say anything, so if you keep rules, I think OK.

Edited January 26, 2007 by Gacktoh

[aderechelsea 125]

when i was "hijacking" the tamari-seki seats , LOTS of japanese fans were sitting there too.

i found most of them very friendly and they tried to talk to me even though i couldn't speak a word. Some of those bought me beer later on or even invited me in their masu-seki seats. On one of the last days i sat with a family of Hakkaku enthousiasts and they kept saying things about Kaiho because i could at least tell them he was my fvourite rikishi. It was fun though because i could yell "Hokutoiwa" and "Kaiho" as loud as i wanted ... they were much noisier than me.

when you are friendly people around you tend to be friendly too .....

[Gacktoh 0]

In any case, as Joe said, as long as you follow the rules, you should never had any problems.AND, many Japanese do it too.

Yes, that's ture, but I've heard that one Japanese girl which ilovesumo-san mentioned in other thread gets problems. I think that she is too much. ;-)

[Petr 0]

In any case, as Joe said, as long as you follow the rules, you should never had any problems.AND, many Japanese do it too.

Yes, that's ture, but I've heard that one Japanese girl which ilovesumo-san mentioned in other thread gets problems. I think that she is too much. ;-)

Maybe you mean a mature lady who is (in)famous even in the amateur circles..

[sekihiryu 51]

I've actually been cut some slack at a honbasho when standing in an aisle, as the usher probably figured I couldn't understand (even thought the gestures to go sit down were pretty obvious). I've found event staff exceptionally reasonable and accomodating (even when I'm impersonating the press/stable personnel trying to get somewhere I shouldn't be).

The past 2 years the seating attendants at the Osaka Basho have become very strict, you cant even sneak up early in the day (Sandanme time) and watch up close, they watch everyone likes hawks.

I once read or heard that 'they' dont mind people sitting up close earlier on as it looks good on TV i.e a fuller looking stadium on the broadcast. Seems to be a logical explanation

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

One note about the ushers...at least in Nagoya, they are usually university students who have been hired by a temp agency for part-time event work. Sometimes they work concerts, sometimes other sports events, sometimes sumo. They are not NSK staff per se. They do they best they can, as they are trained. I've taught several students who did that sort of work. They tend to be among the most flexible people you are going to meet in Japan. Their biggest fear is usually communication difficulties with foreign fans. If you can speak even a little Japanese, they relax and do their utmost to be helpful.

[Gacktoh 0]

Yes, that's ture, but I've heard that one Japanese girl which ilovesumo-san mentioned in other thread gets problems. I think that she is too much. (Laughing...)

Maybe you mean a mature lady who is (in)famous even in the amateur circles..

Yes..... she is before 30, and her Hiiki-rikishi is Miyabiyama.

One note about the ushers...at least in Nagoya, they are usually university students who have been hired by a temp agency for part-time event work.

Kyuushu as well, I do not know about KK.