What is wrong with kotooshu?

[yamaneko 2]

He looks terrible. It doesnt seem like he has that same injury anymore, its not like he has pressure. Whats wrong with him? Last year he seemed so dominating in his run to ozeki. Last basho he had that injury, but this one i thought he would return to form. He looks almost roho-ish as far as his cluelessness out there.

[Asojima 2,874]

He looks terrible. It doesnt seem like he has that same injury anymore, its not like he has pressure. Whats wrong with him? Last year he seemed so dominating in his run to ozeki. Last basho he had that injury, but this one i thought he would return to form. He looks almost roho-ish as far as his cluelessness out there.

Part mental and part physical. His injuries have shown him that he is not invincible, and it has shaken his confidence. The injuries, even if reasonably healed, have prevented him from doing the geiko needed to prepare for this basho. He is young; he will heal; he will probably regain his confidence. B-)

[Flying_Monkey 0]

It's one of the problems with being promoted too quickly... and with the expectations on him. I still think that he is not as talented as his fans think and a far more limited rikishi. I believe that Baruto is more likely to be the first European yokozuna than Kotooshu...

[kaiguma 0]

I believe that Baruto is more likely to be the first European yokozuna than Kotooshu...

I don't mean to sound like an agitator, but that is just plain SILLY :-S

Put them up against one another (before the injury, or after it's fully healed) and you'll see what I mean. It's really difficult to judge the potential of a rikishi while he's still developing his form (I'd describe Baruto's form as still fetal), but I would wager that Baruto will have trouble breaking into sanyaku for another 5+ basho, probably more than a year. What's more, if he does and you still want to talk about "early promotion" then let's see if he beats Asashoryu in 2 of their first 7 bouts . . . (In a state of confusion...)

Edited May 17, 2006 by kaiguma

[Bishonohana 0]

He looks terrible. It doesnt seem like he has that same injury anymore, its not like he has pressure. Whats wrong with him? Last year he seemed so dominating in his run to ozeki. Last basho he had that injury, but this one i thought he would return to form. He looks almost roho-ish as far as his cluelessness out there.

Awwww.... :'-( Come on! Let's not kick the man when he's down!! :-O IMHO - I don't think he has fully recovered from his knee injury, yet. He's probably being cautious not to hurt it more. He wasn't injured last year when he was making his Ozeki run, either, if you're comparing...

He looks almost roho-ish as far as his cluelessness out there.

You have your right to your own opinion, but apparently you think Roho is clueless?? (In a state of confusion...) I'm not even a fan of Roho, but I wouldn't think a 5/6 up to today is that clueless. He could still make Kachikoshi. That's my opinion. :-S

Here is Roho's stats:

March '06 - 4/11

Jan '06 - 9/6

Nov '05 - 10/5

Sept '05 - 8/7

July '05 - Injury 3/8/4

[yamaneko 2]

when i say roho-ish and clueless, im talking about sometimes where it just seems like from the beggining the guy seems like he will lose. Like hes only half there mentally. How many times have we seen roho lose where it seems like hes almost not trying, or that he had no chance at all to win, even though hes bigger and stronger than the guy hes going up against.

Even the announcers always talk about it in japanese, after one of these roho bouts, things like, "what was roho doing/thinking there?"

Ive been getting that exact feeling with some of kotooshus bouts, im like, is he even trying to win?

[Kotoku 0]

His problem is that whoever is his media guy has put him into too much promotion, taking away time to practice.

His second problem is that he is physically all wrong for sumo -- to tall and too leggy.

I love the guy -- he's great! But I think if he wants to avoid the kind of injury that would stay with him forever, he might switch carreers. He's done amazingly well in Sumo. He's handsome, has what seems to be a great personality and could probably make a ton of money either here or in Europe in the movies or as a tarento... YMMV and no problem.

[Flying_Monkey 0]

I believe that Baruto is more likely to be the first European yokozuna than Kotooshu...

I don't mean to sound like an agitator, but that is just plain SILLY (Tears forming...)

Put them up against one another (before the injury, or after it's fully healed) and you'll see what I mean. It's really difficult to judge the potential of a rikishi while he's still developing his form (I'd describe Baruto's form as still fetal), but I would wager that Baruto will have trouble breaking into sanyaku for another 5+ basho, probably more than a year. What's more, if he does and you still want to talk about "early promotion" then let's see if he beats Asashoryu in 2 of their first 7 bouts . . . (You are going off-topic...)

Read what I wrote more carefully...

I am NOT saying that Baruto will necessarily make the top quickly (and I am not one of the rather mindless Baruto cheerleaders). I am just saying that he's more likely to get there than Kotooshu. It was a comment mainly on Kotooshu's likelihood of making the top.

[Babaryutaikai 1]

His problem is that whoever is his media guy has put him into too much promotion, taking away time to practice.

His second problem is that he is physically all wrong for sumo -- to tall and too leggy.

I love the guy -- he's great! But I think if he wants to avoid the kind of injury that would stay with him forever, he might switch carreers. He's done amazingly well in Sumo. He's handsome, has what seems to be a great personality and could probably make a ton of money either here or in Europe in the movies or as a tarento... YMMV and no problem.

Personality - NOT! When he was a young rikishi, just starting out, he used to ask us who he had just fought when he saw us outside of the Kokugikan. My two friends and I were staunch supporters. As soon as he made sekitori, he wouldn't even acknowledge us anymore - or any of the other sumo fans - when we saw him and "ganbatte'd" him. He just walked looking straight ahead with an irritated look, like "leave me the hell alone!" He learned Japanese much more slowly than his Europesn and other non-Japanese peers - and certainly not for a lack of high ranking Japanese sekitori and others in his heya to talk to, including a succession of two wonderful oyakata.

Fast forward to Baruto, who has had, until the last few basho, NO sekitori to practice with, and just a few other Japanese lower rankers in his heya. He speaks perfect English, and his Japanese is excellent for his length of time in Japan - again, with few peers to speak with. He appreciates all the fans that wait for him as he walks into the Kokugikan - and willingly shakes hands, stops to talk and take pictures, both before and after the bouts. And he ALWAYS has a smile for everyone - win or lose.

This is just my experience and observation, but you won't see me rooting for this ozeki any time soon.

[Gusoyama 105]

Personality - NOT! When he was a young rikishi, just starting out, he used to ask us who he had just fought when he saw us outside of the Kokugikan. My two friends and I were staunch supporters. As soon as he made sekitori, he wouldn't even acknowledge us anymore - or any of the other sumo fans - when we saw him and "ganbatte'd" him. He just walked looking straight ahead with an irritated look, like "leave me the hell alone!" He learned Japanese much more slowly than his Europesn and other non-Japanese peers - and certainly not for a lack of high ranking Japanese sekitori and others in his heya to talk to, including a succession of two wonderful oyakata.

Didn't Nishinoshima say something like this as well, that he got brushed off recently by Kotooshu?

[Hananotaka 8]

Some random thoughts:

The injuries, even if reasonably healed, have prevented him from doing the geiko needed to prepare for this basho.

How does the geiko feel about that? (Dohyo-iri...)

There is much truth in what Asojima says. Kotooushuu looks like he suffering from lack of keiko, and some lingering doubt about his knee. He has a great body for sumo: a little light, maybe, but he's still young, he'll put on weight. Kotouoshuu's weakpoint has always been his (relative) lack of flexibility and a high tachiai. In a sense, his physical strengths have rocketed him up the ladder before his body is 100% sumo-conditioned. He's able to make up for this and use his incredible reach when gets a solid tachiai, but this basho he hasn't had many good tachiai's, and he's conceding ground and momentum to his opponents.

I seriously doubt it will take Baruto more than a couple of basho at most to acclimate to the joui-jin. I expect he'll go 8-7 at worst as a high maegashira next basho. His physical advantages and fast sumo will keep him in sanyaku even if he can't regularly beat the major players; he'll feast on the elevator rikishi.

Japanese ability has little to do with sumo ability, or even personality. Some people take to it, some people don't.

[Bishonohana 0]

I am NOT saying that Baruto will necessarily make the top quickly (and I am not one of the rather mindless Baruto cheerleaders).

(Dohyo-iri...) (Applauding...) Why do you have the need to say that?? (Applauding...)

[pisipepu 0]

Baruto seems ta be quite popular dude - that here is just another topic which started wherever-it-did but ends up as thread about Baruto :P

[yamaneko 2]

Man, we might have two kadoban ozeki next basho. The shocker will be that NEITHER is kaio or chiyotaikai.

Lets see if osh can get it together against hakuho today.

[Kurinoku 0]

Man, this basho seems to have been held in Australia.

I mean, everything is upside down and down under... :-S

As for Kotooshu, his psyche seems have hindered him of going for top performance more than any injury or leggyness ever. Maybe he'd need his parents coming over too, as this has had a good impact on many, Hakuho and Baruto first coming to my mind.

Something IS wrong with the guy, because his attitude towards the press and fans is really not the kind one would expect and assume. I'm sure he knows it better than us, so there has to be some serious mental issue. I hope he'll get over it soon, whatever it is, so we could enjoy of the good ol' Osh again next basho.

Edited May 18, 2006 by Kurinoku

[Taka 33]

Some random thoughts:

The injuries, even if reasonably healed, have prevented him from doing the geiko needed to prepare for this basho.

How does the geiko feel about that? :-S

There is much truth in what Asojima says. Kotooushuu looks like he suffering from lack of keiko, and some lingering doubt about his knee. He has a great body for sumo:

I agree with this. I think Kotooshu's biggest problem this basho is his immobility. In the past he has showed great movement and used that to get advantages EVEN after one of his weak tachiais. This time he is not able to do that and suffers greatly because of it. With a bum knee his athleticism just isn't there to bail him out.

A clear example is his bout against Miyabiyama. In the past against "Blob" he would just move move and then move some more until an opportunity arose, then get the win. This time he was a sitting duck of "KaioUesque" proportions.

If his mobility continues to be this weak, and if he is going to be kadoban he will have to show up I guess, he is a much lesser athlete and there will be only one answer to his problems. Improve his tachiai significantly so he can gain advantages from the get go.

About the added weight. I remember there was a lot of discussion about this earlier in his career and that I leaned towards the view that someone like Kotooshu didn't need great bulk, that in fact it would a shame if he did add substantial fat. That it would handicap what I felt was his strenght, besides of course power combined with great reach, athleticism.

But now if this is permanent? Will he need to adjust (plenty of rikishi have after injuries) and be more of a classic big power sumo type of rikishi? But what about his knee then?

I think that unfortunately the near future looks pretty dim for Kotooshu, and no matter what you think about him, that certainly is a great shame. For sumo really. I for one was looking forward to great future bouts, not only more against the likes of Asashoryu and Hakuho but especially immense yotsu battles against Baruto.

I'm sure he will bounce back eventually, his shear talent is simply too great for that not to happen, I just want it to be sooner rather than much later.

[kaiguma 0]

It seems like most of the people on this thread are really missing something: Osh has sustained major injury to the same leg 2 basho in a row! It was absolutely amazing that he didn't go kadoban during haru, but he injured his ankle going all out in the last few days and now he has learned his lesson. He's hoping for kachi but he's not going to stick out his neck for it.

His immobility probably has nothing to do with his depressed state, it's much more likely to be the other way around. The reason he can't say anything to reporters is that it would really hurt his pride to admit that he really can't move well, not to mention it would be bad strategy to just come right out and say it. He's obviously just trying to hold himself together so that he can fully heal without getting reinjured and I wish him luck. :-S

[troutbum 0]

It seems like most of the people on this thread are really missing something: Osh has sustained major injury to the same leg 2 basho in a row! It was absolutely amazing that he didn't go kadoban during haru, but he injured his ankle going all out in the last few days and now he has learned his lesson. He's hoping for kachi but he's not going to stick out his neck for it.

His immobility probably has nothing to do with his depressed state, it's much more likely to be the other way around. The reason he can't say anything to reporters is that it would really hurt his pride to admit that he really can't move well, not to mention it would be bad strategy to just come right out and say it. He's obviously just trying to hold himself together so that he can fully heal without getting reinjured and I wish him luck. :-S

I have watched him over the years and I believe he may have some serious mental depression problem. And it seemed to get worse the higher he went up in the ranks, pressure increasing on him. If you look at his interaction (or actualy non interaction) with fans, press and his fellow rikshi, that is what depressive people often do, they isolate themselves from the rest of the world.

[Taizeniki 0]

I have watched him over the years and I believe he may have some serious mental depression problem. And it seemed to get worse the higher he went up in the ranks, pressure increasing on him. If you look at his interaction (or actualy non interaction) with fans, press and his fellow rikshi, that is what depressive people often do, they isolate themselves from the rest of the world.

Whoa! Psycho-analysis of athletes is always risky. Like great artists, intensity of personality is often essential to the passion which fuels the fighting spirit. Osh will come around. He just needs time...

[Bishonohana 0]

It seems like most of the people on this thread are really missing something: Osh has sustained major injury to the same leg 2 basho in a row! It was absolutely amazing that he didn't go kadoban during haru, but he injured his ankle going all out in the last few days and now he has learned his lesson. He's hoping for kachi but he's not going to stick out his neck for it.

His immobility probably has nothing to do with his depressed state, it's much more likely to be the other way around. The reason he can't say anything to reporters is that it would really hurt his pride to admit that he really can't move well, not to mention it would be bad strategy to just come right out and say it. He's obviously just trying to hold himself together so that he can fully heal without getting reinjured and I wish him luck. (Whistling...)

I agree with you Kaiguma, 100%!!! (Showing respect...) Well, said! (Sign of approval) I hope his injuries will heal or at least get a little better before Nagoya, but I have a feeling that's not long enough... :'-(

[Kintamayama 47,226]

I have heard that he is healed. The reason for his poor performance is "Keiko fusoku"- inadequate training.

This is not hearsay-this is direct information derived from a "source who has asked to be unnamed"..

[Asojima 2,874]

I have heard that he is healed. The reason for his poor performance is "Keiko fusoku"- inadequate training.

This is not hearsay-this is direct information derived from a "source who has asked to be unnamed"..

I hereby release you from your vow of anonymity. (Showing respect...)

[Kintamayama 47,226]

I have heard that he is healed. The reason for his poor performance is "Keiko fusoku"- inadequate training.

This is not hearsay-this is direct information derived from a "source who has asked to be unnamed"..

I hereby release you from your vow of anonymity. (Showing respect...)

I also had some interesting chats with some tsukebito types, and asked them some burning questions we had argued about here, especially the question of Oyakata's last career bout.

Suffice it to say that I was right again.. I will be posting some stuff after the basho is over about my nosy questions and how most of them were politely brushed off.

[Bishonohana 0]

I have heard that he is healed. The reason for his poor performance is "Keiko fusoku"- inadequate training.

This is not hearsay-this is direct information derived from a "source who has asked to be unnamed"..

Alrighty then.... (Whistling...) we'll look forward to the scoop!! ;-) (Showing respect...)

[Kishinoyama 625]

In my opinion, it looked sort of like a henka-ish move today against Kaio and the way Kaio appears to be injured is seemed it was not needed (Clapping wildly...) .