Rumored Shikona: Ochai will be...

[Muhomatsu 246]

I heard that he will get a proper shikona for the next tournament (and likely promotion to the top division).  This was stated at the senshuraku party.

The reading was understood to be "Hakuōhō"  The characters, I was told, are to be "伯桜鵬". - which would be an interesting reading for the first character.  There could be some mix-ups around the crowd - just relaying what was texted to me as breaking news.  

I am certain more to come.

Edited for corrections.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Muhomatsu
Correction

[Muhomatsu 246]

also, Hakuhō has a new Mongolian recruit - introduced at the part as a kenkyūsei.  So it will be a while before a proper appearance on the doyhō for him.

 

He is Demidjamts Usukhbayar - the surname is one of another legendary Mongolian champion wrestler.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Muhomatsu

[Akinomaki 40,866]

Earl-cherry-bigbird Hakuoho 伯桜鵬

11 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

11 hours ago, rhyen said:

I am guessing that Ochiai is getting promoted to Makuuchi?

That is the reason for his new shikona Hakuoho 伯桜鵬, I expected some sakura from Kotozakura, a different Haku than in Hakuho, from a local mountain, Mt. Daisen, also called Hokidaisen https://www.yamakei-online.com/yamanavi/yama.php?yama_id=832

This other ho is usually read haku, meaning count, earl

Edited May 29, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Seiyashi 4,109]

15 minutes ago, Muhomatsu said:

He is Demidjamts Usukhbayar - the surname is one of another legendary Mongolian champion wrestler.

I believe this name has turned up a few times in the ams thread. Koorifuu or mikawa will be much more able to shed light on him.

If I'm not wrong, Gelegjamtsyn Osokhbayar was present in the photo which Hakuhō took with the Mongolian president, when Hakuhō toured Mongolia to promote his danpatsu.

[Muhomatsu 246]

8 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I believe this name has turned up a few times in the ams thread. Koorifuu or mikawa will be much more able to shed light on him.

If I'm not wrong, Gelegjamtsyn Osokhbayar was present in the photo which Hakuhō took with the Mongolian president, when Hakuhō toured Mongolia to promote his danpatsu.

That is the one.  He will be joining Miyagino.  Announced at the senshuraku party.

[Seiyashi 4,109]

Any idea why that version of the kanji for sakura/ō rather than Kotozakura's?

Edited May 28, 2023 by Seiyashi

[Gurowake 4,111]

16 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Any idea why that version of the kanji for sakura/ō rather than Kotozakura's?

I'm confused at the connection with Kotozakura made a couple times in this thread.  There's no mention of any connection on Wikipedia.  Please update Wikipedia with the connection if you have a source to cite.

[Seiyashi 4,109]

3 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I'm confused at the connection with Kotozakura made a couple times in this thread.  There's no mention of any connection on Wikipedia.  Please update Wikipedia with the connection if you have a source to cite.

Both hail from Kurayoshi, Tottori.

[Gurowake 4,111]

Just now, Seiyashi said:

Both hail from Kurayoshi, Tottori.

That's pretty weak, and I suppose a good reason to not mention it on Wikipedia unless it's relevant to the information behind his shikona choice.

[Seiyashi 4,109]

Just now, Gurowake said:

That's pretty weak, and I suppose a good reason to not mention it on Wikipedia unless it's relevant to the information behind his shikona choice.

For now, yes. There's definitely an association, just not a direct familial one, and I guess it's reflected in the choice of a different kanji (Kotozakura's is the more traditional kanji whereas Hakuōhō's is more modern).

In any case we don't have anything official, much of it is spontaneous reacts coming out of the Miyagino senshūraku party.

I've also heard that the middle kanji derives from the Sakura-zumo wanpaku(?) event in Tottori.

[Koorifuu 1,021]

I do remember some chatter about Demidjamts Usukhbayar in this forum, but still had to go grab the relevant posts.

There were indeed a few hints that Hakuho was going to take him as his gaijin project - this might not be a surprise for those keeping close tabs.

 

The first two posts below are from the "2022 Collegiate Sumo + Banzuke Thread". The third post is from "Miyagino/Hakuho extra activities."

 

On 17/07/2022 at 10:43, Katooshu said:

The National Kanazawa Tournament was just held. To sum it up - West Japan underdogs score big; the usual stars sitting out.

I mentioned earlier that Kanazawa Gakuin University was putting together a good team, and today really showed it. They won the team event, with a 3-2 victory in the final over Nippon Sports Science University. While NSSU fell short, it was a very good result for them considering their 2 best competitors (Nakamura and Hanada) didn't compete, and I don't think Choijil (probably their #3 or #4) did either. From the results, it looks like Naoya Kusano and Kazuma Kawabuchi were also absent for Nihon University, so that's a lot of top talent absent from this tournament.

The individual event was won by a tall Mongolian from Doshisha University, whose name escapes me. He has caught my eye before and has solid belt skills, though has generally been overpowered by the top competitors. Runner-up was Shun Ikeda of Kanazawa Gakuin, and losing semifinalists were Masai Hanaoaka from Nihon University and Ryoma Ishizaki from NSSU. 

On 17/07/2022 at 15:28, BuBa said:

Usuhbayar Demidjamts. According to some Facebook post he is a son of a yet another Mongolian Grand Champion Usuhbayar Gelegjamts. If it is true he comes from very famous wrestling family. His grand grand father “Buur” Jamyan is also a Grand Champion from 1920th. Nicknamed “Buur”, which is male camel, for his tall stature. Picture of his father and Grand-grand father. Btw, His uncle is also a State Falcon in Mongolian wrestling, in picture behind the champ.

On 13/10/2022 at 06:41, TENHO said:

His name is Gelegjamts Usuhkbayar, 4 times naadam winner , whose grandfather was also 2 times naadam winner.

Also uncle of Yoshoyama.

Hakuho’s father admired Usukhbayar’s grandfather Jamiyan Avarga or Yokozuna, he was like a mentor to him.

Later on he became Usukhbayar’s mentor.

So Usukhbayar and Hakuho are pretty close, he is like uncle to Hakuho.

i tried to upload some photos but it says there are some problems or error.

 

The fact he participated on Hakuho's intaizumo was also of interest.

 

ALL IN ALL, we're looking at a talented albeit green & skinny prospect with plenty of Mongolian experience and family pedigree - with some longstanding association with Hakuho.

[Kintamayama 45,628]

Akinomaki almost got it right, including the sakura thingy..

[yohcun 401]

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I'm surprised he wrestled under the Ochiai name at all. Given how superstitious sumo can be, I was expecting it to be considered bad luck or something to have a shikona with 落 (drop, fall) in it.

[Seiyashi 4,109]

1 hour ago, yohcun said:

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I'm surprised he wrestled under the Ochiai name at all. Given how superstitious sumo can be, I was expecting it to be considered bad luck or something to have a shikona with 落 (drop, fall) in it.

Well, his whole name could be interpreted as "fall together", so the worst he'd get would be a bunch of torinaoshis. 

[Akinomaki 40,866]

From now on he will be known as Count Sakura, the horrific

Edited May 28, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 40,866]

9 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I'm confused at the connection with Kotozakura made a couple times in this thread.  There's no mention of any connection on Wikipedia.  Please update Wikipedia with the connection if you have a source to cite.

Wikipedia seems to be outdated and incomplete in comparison to what we have on the forum, I encountered many recent occasions backing this, Baruto e.g. Even on the Japanese side. The Sakura connection is common knowledge. He won the tournament each time in primary school:

On 03/12/2022 at 02:53, Akinomaki said:

His mother tells that his first time on the dohyo was at a kindergarten tournament when he was 3 years old. From 4th to 6th grade primary school he won the local Sakura-zumo tournament, represented Tottori at the national wampaku sumo tournament and was individual runner-up there as 5th grade.

and was there afterwards as well

On 03/10/2022 at 23:15, Akinomaki said:

He was interviewed at the (Koto-)Sakura-zumo kids tournament in Tottori, at which Ochiai started his sumo life. He's continuing with keiko at the moment (as Tottori Johoku staff I guess) and wants to join ozumo this year. Video: https://www.nkt-tv.co.jp/pc-news/news107547xcowq2k4t7nfi.html

On 02/12/2022 at 17:15, Akinomaki said:

The oyakata told he'll want to raise him into the next Kotozakura, the city's famous yokozuna: Ochiai as 4th grade started with sumo, with the Sakura-zumo local tournament for kids. Sadogatake failed to secure him for their heya, which would have been the natural choice, the oyakata and rikishi from the heya always are at the tournament - or were in ordinary times.

local TSK TV https://www.fnn.jp/articles/-/453691

I always give sources here on the forum, but usually they disappear after a few weeks

Edit: search for Sakura-zumo

Edited May 29, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Gurowake 4,111]

10 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Wikipedia seems to be outdated and incomplete in comparison to what we have on the forum, I encountered many recent occasions backing this, Baruto e.g. Even on the Japanese side. The Sakura connection is common knowledge. He won the tournament each time:

and was there afterwards as well

I always give sources here on the forum, but usually they disappear after a few weeks 

Thank you for providing additional references.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Gurowake

[Gurowake 4,111]

2 hours ago, yohcun said:

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I'm surprised he wrestled under the Ochiai name at all. Given how superstitious sumo can be, I was expecting it to be considered bad luck or something to have a shikona with 落 (drop, fall) in it.

The "yasu" in Takayasu's name I wouldn't expect to be in any sumo shikona either, but he's never used another one.

[Akinomaki 40,866]

So the result from the guesses amounts to

On 25/01/2023 at 20:15, rokudenashi said:

• 伯耆鵬 (Hōkihō) - Hōki is another name for Hakushū province. Sounds a lot like Hōkahō so maybe not likely

On 26/01/2023 at 22:34, Akinomaki said:

Hoo (Houou) usually 鳳凰, the firebird - the name of an ancient ozeki of Miyagino-beya, but for him 鵬桜, with the sakura from Kotozakura (the yokozuna from his hometown Kurayoshi) 

On 08/03/2023 at 19:59, Akinomaki said:

Sujo Saya Ichikawa guesses 大山鵬 Daisenhou - from Mt. Daisen a volcano in Tottori - or like proposed here from his first name  哲也 Tetsuya  哲鵬 Tetsuho o

I guess he'll get one for makuuchi promotion

Some combination of these 3

10 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

new shikona Hakuoho 伯桜鵬, I expected some sakura from Kotozakura, a different Haku than in Hakuho, from a local mountain, Mt. Daisen, also called Hokidaisen https://www.yamakei-online.com/yamanavi/yama.php?yama_id=832

[Katooshu 3,339]

Not going to lie, I don't like the shikona Hakuoho - it sounds like someone botching Hakuho.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Katooshu

[Bunbukuchagama 778]

10 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Not going to lie, I don't like the shikona Hakuoho.

Couldn't they just name him Hakuho II and get done with it? 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Bunbukuchagama

[Seiyashi 4,109]

2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

The "yasu" in Takayasu's name I wouldn't expect to be in any sumo shikona either, but he's never used another one.

Aminishiki and all the OG Ajigawa-beya boys?

[Seiyashi 4,109]

44 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

53 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Not going to lie, I don't like the shikona Hakuoho.

Couldn't they just name him Hakuho II and get done with it? 

Don't ask me for a source, but apparently Hakuhō was advised against it. Probably a good thing too, since IMO giving a young successor his own shikona, given his own record, is asking for all kinds of jinxes and psychological stresses.

[Bunbukuchagama 778]

2 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Don't ask me for a source, but apparently Hakuhō was advised against it. Probably a good thing too, since IMO giving a young successor his own shikona, given his own record, is asking for all kinds of jinxes and psychological stresses.

But being named not-quite-Hakuho is totally fine? 

[Seiyashi 4,109]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

But being named not-quite-Hakuho is totally fine? 

Yes.

It's not just a case of a rose by any other name, and the similarity stops at the aural/Romaji stage. The kanji - and therefore the associated meanings of the shikona - is completely different.

If he had been named Hakuhō (II), that would have basically meant that he was expected to live up to Hakuhō (I)'s achievements to be a worthy bearer of the name. That's a tall order to live up to arguably the GOAT of a sport. It's a small sample size, but Wakanohana (II) comes to mind when thinking of unhappy rikishi saddled with their stablemaster's shikona. At some point it becomes a stressor rather than an inspiration.

On the other hand, giving Ochiai a brand new shikona but with very carefully chosen kanji is much more personal with a lot less associated baggage. The characters of the shikona draw from Ochiai's own background and early successes, while the implication that he is destined to be Hakuhō's greatest deshi is restricted to the aural similarity and is much less explicit. Don't forget that for Japanese audiences, the impact of a shikona lies more in the kanji than it is for us gaijin, where it's just the transcribed romaji.

There's also maybe an element of Hakuhō actually being Hakuhō's legal name, so there might have been some minor reservation in that respect as well.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Seiyashi