What's wrong with Sumo these days?

[Feginowaka 53]

I have to resume this topic to discuss some aspects again.

Firstly there is nothing wrong with Sumo these days, concerning the rikish

[Coo-cook 0]

".....compete in his Mongolian Sumo, where he can act like a barbarian and nobody will complain........."

Fuck you Feginowaka....You are a fucking civilized racist....or what?

[Feginowaka 53]

Fuck you Feginowaka....You are a fucking civilized racist....or what?

Very refined words from a real expert...

(Applauding...)

[Coo-cook 0]

Who are you calling others a barbarian?

Very civilized and refined guy?....Bullshit.

"Oh yeah, Liechtenstein is a country called themselfs neutral...They always kiss the strong boy's ( France, Germany) arses.They like money and can't even hesitate to steal other's money. It's your national character".

How does it sound , "civilized" Man ?

Shall I continue....?

[Kintamayama 47,178]

Well, there have actually been past Japanese Yokozuna who acted way out of line. The main difference is the media. In those days, the media community was much smaller and tended to "tow the line", just like everywhere else in the world, if I may.. with the years the "tabloid" portion of the media has grown in immense proportion compared to the "classic" media. Many new newspapers, the Internet, cable TV.. the competition grows, so the need for "juicy" news that sells quickly grows with it. Now, I'm not saying everything the tabloids write is a lie. It's just that back then, the media community was small and it was much easier to ask it to "keep quiet" about certain things than today, when every second guy on the street has a videocam. Hence indiscretions of guys like Wajima, Chiyonofuji, Kitanoumi Rijicho himself, and even earlier icons are now but rumours. When I grew up in Japan during the Haku-Ho dynasty, many stories were circulating about Taiho and Kashiwado, but were always denied.

Yokozuna are human beings. The fact that Asa's every move is being followed is just the sign of the times. He's no better or worse than others-maybe a bit young and brash, but don't think for a moment that he is the worst there ever was- far from it.. In time, he may actually become the worst ever behaviour- wise, but till then, I think the harsh words Fegi used are a bit exaggerated.

Edited August 4, 2004 by Kintamayama

[Mark Buckton 1]

Who are you calling others a barbarian?

Very civilized and refined guy?....Bullshit.

"Oh yeah, Liechtenstein is a country called themselfs neutral...They always kiss the strong boy's ( France, Germany) arses.They like money and can't even hesitate to steal other's money. It's your national character".

How does it sound , "civilized" Man ?

Shall I continue....?

Listen mate - Asashoryu is Mongolian, I think you are Mongolian and that makes you brothers of the same nationality.

It gives you a bigger oportunity than most to support him perhaps. It doesn't give you the opportunity that you have taken to swear at Fegi as you did. On this subject I personally don't agree with Feginowaka-san and think Kinata-san spoke wisely but your attitude is out of order. You are reading this as I type so please be man enough to apologise for the language.

To have a different opinion needs no apology and I know Fegi knows that but the language you used does. Do it.

ANR

[Jakusotsu 6,389]

For me Sumo has always been Japanese, has always been very traditional, has always been conjoined with Shintoism, has always been a sport of

[Mark Buckton 1]

When I grew up in Japan during the Haku-Ho dynasty

Lucky bastard

(and no, I don't think Kinta-san will mind this word usage C-man)

[Xris 2]

You might have noticed that the whole Sumo business is rather down to earth and not quite up to the holiness You are preaching.

I hope your are right because the lack of performance of the Japanese westlers (not for long I hope) and Asashoryu's antics (which personnally make me think of over-emphasized teenage exuberance rather than anything else) make me wonder whether some other "anti-foreigner" decisions could be taken in sumo in the future? (Applauding...) I certainly hope not (Blinking...)

[Feginowaka 53]

Who are you calling others a barbarian?

Very civilized and refined guy?....Bullshit.

"Oh yeah, Liechtenstein is a country called themselfs neutral...They always kiss the strong boy's ( France, Germany) arses.They like money and can't even hesitate to steal other's money. It's your national character".

How does it sound , "civilized" Man ?

Shall I continue....?

I won't let me down to your low-level (Applauding...)

Why are there always idi..., sorry people, who take a statement personal and reply in a primitive way?

We really don't need those people.

Stay objective or shut up >(Laughing...)

If you have to say something to the topic, do it and nobody will complain.

But writing stupid stuff like you do, just makes people angry. (Sign of disapproval)

Btw, Liechtenstein doesn't kiss the boy's arses and doesn't steal other people's money.

The people bring the money to our country themselves and deposit it here, there's nothing wrong with that.

You have to inform you better, before writing such nonsense (Blinking...)

[Feginowaka 53]

On this subject I personally don't agree with Feginowaka-san and think Kinata-san spoke wisely...

To have a different opinion needs no apology...

ANR

ANR shows how to reply on a delicate topic.

I have no problem if somebody disagrees with my opinion as long as he stays objective.

Maybe I see it too blue-eyed and Moti knows it better.

I just follow Sumo for 10 years now and doesn't know every detail what happened earlier.

But I never heard similar things of the past 4 Yokozuna (Taka, Waka, Ake, Musa)...

I admit that I have never been in Japan and see it from a distant observation.

And I know that the Yokozuna are no "Gods" and no Saints.

But at least they should act as ideal and example for all other rikishi, not only on the dohyo but also beside the dohyo...

[Yoavoshimaru 0]

I've warned Coo-cook and I'd like to repeat the point in public: please avoid cursing at people. I know some people on this Forum are fairly young, but I still hope we can all conduct ourselves without cursing at each other. As the Forum rules note, such behavior can result in banishment from the Forum. While we're reluctant to do this, we have been receiving numerous complaints about certain repeat offenders.

The topics of debate are worthy, and people have good opinions, so let's try to be a bit more polite if possible. Thanks.

[Kintamayama 47,178]

Maybe I see it too blue-eyed and Moti knows it better.

I just follow Sumo for 10 years now and doesn't know every detail what happened earlier.

But I never heard similar things of the past 4 Yokozuna (Taka, Waka, Ake, Musa)...

Well, Taka had his share of rumours,with the chiropractor and his botched-up engagement, and the steroid usage talk. Akebono had to be extra careful because he was the first foreign Yokozuna with all the implications. He also had a foreigner for a shisho, so he must have been guided well. But he did the unthinkable AFTER he retired.. Musa was an Ozeki forever, so he had experience on his side. Asa, on the other hand, tore up the ranks rather quickly and became Yokozuna very fast, maybe too fast for his own good. So I personally think that alone should be taken into consideration before we tear him to pieces...

Waka wasn't Yokozuna long enough to do any damage. But he sure left the Kyokai quickly after he retired, with not much of an alternative life in hand..

Edited August 4, 2004 by Kintamayama

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

Well, Taka had his share of rumours,with the chiropractor and his botched-up engagement, and the steroid usage talk. Akebono had to be extra careful because he was the first foreign Yokozuna with all the implications. He also had a foreigner for a shisho, so he must have been guided well. But he did the unthinkable AFTER he retired.. Musa was an Ozeki forever, so he had experience on his side. Asa, on the other hand, tore up the ranks rather quickly and became Yokozuna very fast, maybe too fast for his own good. So I personally think that alone should be taken into consideration before we tear him to pieces...

Waka wasn't Yokozuna long enough to do any damage. But he sure left the Kyokai quickly after he retired, with not much of an alternative life in hand..

I agree completely on this. I also agree with your earlier statements about former greats (and pretty much everything you say in this thread today at least). I think especially those coming up to the top young, as undoubtedly includes Asa, are likely to create some disturbance. I did not live in Japan during the Hakuho-era, but I have definitely heard rumours of some behaviour not dissimilar from Asas of at least Takanohana, Chiyonofuji, Kitanoumi, Tamanishiki, Futabayama and Wajima. Not only is it from times when the press used a different approach, but more than anything, it lies in the past. The current Yokozuna

Edited August 4, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama

[Araiwa 0]

To Coo-Cook and Feginowaka:

There is a great aphorism of the wise philosopher Athur Schopenhauer:

"Every nation mocks at the other, and all are right."

In my opinion Asashoryu should respect the rules of the japanese society. We expect everyone to do that, in every country. But you have to give the boy a little bit more time because he is still too young. His volatile temper will decrease with growing age and I can feel he is trying to better himself in sumo aspect and in behavior. Cause I think he wants to be remembered as a great Yokozuna and not as an arse. I think things will become quite easier for him when the 69th Yokozuna appeares.

But til then he has to be careful as he promised.

[Coo-cook 0]

I find it more insulting to call a whole nation as barbarian than cursing a individual.

I wouldn't mind if somebody writes his (her) opinions and feelings about Asashoryu's behavior.

Why dragging my country and people into it ?

It's not first time. You hear often words like "Mongolian Moron" , "Mongolian Menace"...etc as if his behavior is solely to do with being a Mongol.

Unfortunately, so many stunningly uneducated and stupid people exist in the world and they don't shy away steoreotyping and insulting others without any reason.

An insult is an insult. There is no civilized way of insulting or rude way of insulting.

You don't expect people behave wisely and "civilized", after you insult them.

(Gosh, I hate that word "civilized")

By the way, Feginowaka...maybe, I know more about Liechtenstein than you do about Mongolia.

I wrote about Liechtenstein just to give you an idea how does it feel stereotyping. And, now you want defend your country and identity too,huh ?

[BuBa 77]

But writing stupid stuff like you do, just makes people angry.

That's exactly what you did, the "civilized" Man.

Coo-cook, why bother, people like the "civilized" Man will think this way anyways. As you see they are not a majoruty. Oh and watch you language barbarian, the words are not supposed to be used in written form. Instead, civilized people would write like " idi..., sorry people", then it is acceptable, you know. For example,you could have written; f..., sorry you. Or may be not.

Edited August 4, 2004 by BuBa

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

For the sake of peace, could the rest of this argument be handled via messages instead of being flaunted on the forum, please. This has already gone far enough.

Could someone lock this topic, please. (Applauding...)

[Coo-cook 0]

You got it Nishinoshima. That's exactly what the forum needs right now. Some humor.

Thanks.

Now, I'm laughing at myself.

[Feginowaka 53]

Just to clarify some things:

- I never called a whole nation as barbarian. (How could I? I don't know anything about Mongolia...)

You have to read more carefully! I just wrote "where he can act like a barbarian" and thus only Asa was meant and not the whole nation. Read what is written and not what you think is written.

- I never said any word about Mongolia or the Mongolians.

You write "I wouldn't mind if somebody writes his (her) opinions and feelings about Asashoryu's behavior", that's exactly what I did.

Why do you reply in such a rude manner then? (Btw, I still didn't hear any excuse from you)

- Was there any warning from the Forum rijicho towards CooCook?

In any other Forum such words as he used would never be tolerated and would result in a severe warning.

(Sign of disapproval)

Edited August 5, 2004 by Feginowaka

[Jesinofuji 11]

Asashoryu, yeah Fegi is right, he should try harder to act in ways that break Japanese social rules. He should act more maturely, more like a Yokozuna. I agree with Fegi 100% there.

When I was Asashoryu's age, I think I got drunk and broke a few things on a couple of occasions. I had arguements with people in positions of authority, like parents. I missed important events, from either being hung over or just not feeling like attending. I left my house looking like crap. I borke rules just to be rebellious. I did alot of stupid things.

How about everyone else. Did any of you ever do anything you shouldn't have when you were between the ages 20-23? I bet most if not all of you have, many many times at that. Yokozuna or not, Asashoryu is human. Lay off the man for (Censored) sake! Think if you were on camera 24X7!

Behavior aside, Sumo was a sport before it was a tradition; and its still a sport before a tradition. Like him or not, Asashoryu is here to stay because he is the best of the best at the side of Sumo that *really* matters.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Behavior aside, Sumo was a sport before it was a tradition; and its still a sport before a tradition.  Like him or not, Asashoryu is here to stay because he is the best of the best at the side of Sumo that *really* matters.

Not sure I understand that line of reasoning...

Wasn't sumo originally very closely associated with the Shinto religion ie. in the creation myth of Japan, fertility rituals and praying for good fortune, predicting harvests...out of this long tradition the modern sport has emerged. This connection with religion and history may be one reason people take the whole hinkaku thing seriously (Applauding...)

[Coo-cook 0]

Yeah, read what you wrote,Feginowaka "....compete in his Mongolian Sumo, where he can act like a barbarian and nobody will complain"

According you ... Mongolian sumo is a place you can act like a barbarian and nobody would complain about it...Right ?

And, you expecting me to apologize ? How dare you.

Well,...I don't want start it again.

Just keep thinking what you think about us. But, don't insult us openly.

[Feginowaka 53]

When I was Asashoryu's age, I think I got drunk and broke a few things on a couple of occasions. I had arguements with people in positions of authority, like parents. I missed important events, from either being hung over or just not feeling like attending. I left my house looking like crap. I borke rules just to be rebellious. I did alot of stupid things.

How about everyone else. Did any of you ever do anything you shouldn't have when you were between the ages 20-23? I bet most if not all of you have, many many times at that. Yokozuna or not, Asashoryu is human. Lay off the man for  sake!

Maybe I

[Kintamayama 47,178]

Maybe I

Edited August 6, 2004 by Kintamayama