What's wrong with Sumo these days?

[sekihiryu 51]

Kotoseiya made some powerful statements a while back that have really got me thinking, they have been stewing in my head, brewing away while I contemplate them.

He said

He's a major (but certainly not only) reason why sumo tastes shit to me nowadays and why I intend to have nothing to do with ozumo until the sport is relieved of this mockery of a yokozuna. I detest him. I abhor him.

Now I dont want to drag Kotoseiya into this, he was the catalyst of my thoughts and let him be it peace now.

I personally dont think the Mongolian Marauder is the problem, Asashoryu has been my favourite wrestler since I first saw him in Juryo. I dont think its his fault that Sumo seems stale, I do feel though there is something lacking in sumo. Its not his fault the others suck.

I have come to the opinion that its the pathetic crop of local wrestlers that are the reason why sumo is stale.

The current pack of Ozeki are quite frankly abysmal and uninspiring. Musoyama is a poor excuse for an Ozeki, a disgrace. Chiyotaikai shows glimpes of promise but is a choker and too one dimesional and pathetic to watch going backwards.

Kaio who I support has let me down with his inconsistency and lack of fire, and intensity. Tochiazuma had one awesome basho and then faded, now his injury unfortuneately has spelled his doom.

Wakanosato is forever a bridesmaid, he cant put it together. Kotomitsuki cant put it together either. Hokutoriki was a flash in the pan. Miyabiyama is blobby dohyo diver and the luckiest man I have ever seen be an Ozeki. Dejima is disappointing, long past his best.

Takanowaka showed promise but has never delivered maily due to injury.

Tochinonada is one guy who dissappoints me immensely, he has never really delivered ditto Tamanoshima

Kotonowaka is a journeyma as to Tosanoumi, Tochisakae.

Takamisakari is a crowd puller thats for sure but his sumo is patchy.

And then there are all the rank and file rikishi who try hard but are elevator rikishi.

Hagiwara by all accounts is promising, Toyonoshima has promise and Kotoshogiku seem to be the only local boys boys to be impressing.

It seems other than that the only Rikishi that inspire and impress me are non Japanese ones

Asashouryu leading the pack, with his skilful awesome uncomprimising Sumo.

Hakuho, Kokkai, Asasekiryu, Kotooshu, Toitenku, Ama, Roho. And there are a stream of talented Mongolains waiting in the wings including my boy Maenoyu.

While its great to watch all the foreign wrestlers do well, to see the local boys floundering around and being generally uninspiring detracts form the overall sumo experience.

Sumo needs some local superstars a Takanohana, Chiyonofuji, Kitanoumi but there are none, there are certainly none in the current group of Sanyaku. Here is hoping that the new young stars the Hagiwaras and kotoshogikus can rise to the lofty heights and challenge Asashouryu, be a worthy adversary.

Until then I guess I have to put up with the "doldrum".

[QttP 0]

Yes. And that's sad. The fact that a deeply national sport such as sumo is completely, and I mean, completely dominated by foreigners is wrong. Who's to blame? Well, not the foreign guys, who are just doing what they should do - be good. Probably everyone else, each to a certain degree.

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

I think you overestimate the glowing power of sumo of the past. There has always been some uninspiring old guys and more bright looking new guys, whether it has been foreigners, Japanese or aliens. It

Edited July 9, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama

[aderechelsea 125]

i can understand the spite Japanese fans express towards Asa and the rest of the aliens cause they feel the are "loosing" the sport like they did with judo.

i haven't been introduced to sumo during the "glory days" (whatever those were) and i cannot find anything wrong with the sport nowdays.

i think Asa is advertising the sport to the whole world and if he cannot fit in some uptight rules that exist in japanese society ..... then "so be it". I know that these guys are keeping me interested in the sport.

i hope a good Japanese sumotori emerges soon so the country can relax and stop making the sport look doomed all the time.

[Coo-cook 0]

[Asashouryu leading the pack, with his skilful awesome uncomprimising Sumo]

Hey, Sekihiryu , stop it!

You make the Kotoseiya baby cry again.

Do you wanna cry, Kotoseiya baby ? ....."I wanna quit" hm...hmm....whaa-whaa-whaa

[MongolPower 0]

It will be long long long time before Asa retires!

[Zentoryu 154]

[Asashouryu leading the pack, with his skilful awesome uncomprimising Sumo]

Hey, Sekihiryu , stop it!

You make the Kotoseiya baby cry again.

Do you wanna cry, Kotoseiya baby ?  ....."I wanna quit" hm...hmm....whaa-whaa-whaa

Just remember that Kotoseiya, whatever his personal problems are, is the person responsible for the very existence of this forum.

If it wasn't for him we would only have the SML.

Edited July 10, 2004 by Zentoryu

[Guest Onigashima]

If we put the foreigner "problem" aside for a moment, I believe there isn't much wrong. Another Yokozuna and a couple new Ozeki will come along in due time and the competition will pick up again. It is the natural course of things, imho.

It wasn't so many years ago that baseball in the U.S. was considered a withering sport. Many sportswriters commented that kids were only interested in basketball and american football. Admittedly, this isn't a perfect comparison, but baseball's popularity has picked up in the past few years, and basketball's has gone down.

Maybe sumo in Japan is a bit out of fashion, but old things get rediscovered and the sport will succeed on its merits.

I, for one, am very much enjoying the sumo world in its current incarnation. But I haven't been around long enough to get jaded.

:-D

[Onnagumo 4]

Just remember that Kotoseiya, whatever his personal problems are, is the person responsible for the very existence of this forum.

If it wasn't for him we would only have the SML.

Well said.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

Do you wanna cry, Kotoseiya baby ? ....."I wanna quit" hm...hmm....whaa-whaa-whaa

I repeat. Asashoryu being a yokozuna doesn't create my problems. It very slightly accentuates them. You have absolutely no idea about me, my life and what I am going through. You know nothing. You assume. Some idiot making a fool out of his oyakata on the other side of the globe is the least of my problems.

[Zuikakuyama 1]

[Asashouryu leading the pack, with his skilful awesome uncomprimising Sumo]

Hey, Sekihiryu , stop it!

You make the Kotoseiya baby cry again.

Do you wanna cry, Kotoseiya baby ? ....."I wanna quit" hm...hmm....whaa-whaa-whaa

What has he done to you to deserve this kind of vitriol.

Go learn some manners.

[Phelix 0]

Well, well, well. not to comment on some of the above...

It is definite that there is a generation change due in ozumo. This is perfectly natural, and has happend always. You can

[Coo-cook 0]

Did I speak to you, Zuikakuyama ?

Who are you ?

[Asashosakari 20,220]

Did I speak to you, Zuikakuyama ?

Who are you ?

He responded to you because this is a public forum and you had made a snotty and downright insulting post that he did not like. For much the same reason, I'm responding to you now. Please drop the attitude. Thank you.

Edited July 12, 2004 by Asashosakari

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

Shout whatever you wish about me from the rooftops of Ulanbaatar, Coo-cook. Tell everyone what I am. Be my quest. Tell people I suffer from leaky bladder and like to fondle little boys. Tell them I cry like a little girl and throw around my nappies when Asashoryu wins.

The point is that I DON'T CARE. Soon enough I'm free from all of you and you can go on arguing about who pushed whom and why and how and blah blah blah...

BORING!

[hoshidango 0]

I think you overestimate the glowing power of sumo of the past. There has always been some uninspiring old guys and more bright looking new guys, whether it has been foreigners, Japanese or aliens. It

[hoshidango 0]

Shout whatever you wish about me from the rooftops of Ulanbaatar, Coo-cook. Tell everyone what I am. Be my quest. Tell people I suffer from leaky bladder and like to fondle little boys. Tell them I cry like a little girl and throw around my nappies when Asashoryu wins.

The point is that I DON'T CARE. Soon enough I'm free from all of you and you can go on arguing about who pushed whom and why and how and blah blah blah...

BORING!

Obviously I have no idea what you have gone through regarding Asashoryu. Knowing that you were one of the driving forces of the creation of this great forum & you are quite turned off with current sumo, I still hope you would continue to check up on the forum and place whatever the opinion you have; the 'disagreement' element to me is a definately a large part of fun & value of the forum.

Edited July 15, 2004 by hoshidango

[Gaijinohana 0]

Back to the original topic of what's wrong with sumo these days...

I think a big part of it has to do with the lack of intriguing stories in sumo lately. Back during the time of Akebono and Takanohana, etc you had more 'stories' within sumo to follow. There was the interest in seeing two different styles and rikishi types matched up...there was the group of rikishi all from this stable vs. the ones of the another big stable, there was the whole first foreigner thing going on, etc. I don't know if the quality of the sumo was altogether better, but there was more to draw you into the sport.

Nowadays we only have one yokozuna so there isn't the potential match up of two top guys to talk about, there is really only one semi-powerful stable, etc. Nowadays, it's almost like we know what to expect from bout to bout. We know Asa is going to beat Kaio, Chiyo, Muso almost every time he meets them. We know that Chiyo is going to slap every time and lose to anyone that can endure it initially, we know that Muso is going to start a bout great and fumble at the end most of the time, we know that Kaio will seem to be dominate but have nothing to show for it, etc. Knowing the Ozeki's are going to choke has really hurt sumo lately. It's the redundancy that is making Sumo less attractive. That's why everyone was so excited when it looked like Hok. might make something of himself the last tournament and that's why every new guy that seems to be even remotely like a 'natural' is instantly anointed as the next possible ozeki/yokozuna.

Then again...it also may be getting boring because we talk about sumo too much in this forum....

[hoshidango 0]

I think a big part of it has to do with the lack of intriguing stories in sumo lately. Back during the time of Akebono and Takanohana, etc you had more 'stories' within sumo to follow.

I feel the likely rise of new wrestlers especially Hakuho & Kotooshu could change that in a year to two....

[amgaa99 0]

If foreigners are not in sumo, nobody want to watch sumo. Foreigners show interesting, competition sumo.

[Ryunokaze 0]

The biggest problem is that the Japanese know nothing and the gaijin know everything...

Gaijin are so strong...

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

Now we know.

[Jesinofuji 11]

But then lets ask this: what would Sumo be WITHOUT Asashoryu? We'd have the yushos being won with 12-3 or 11-4 records. The uninspired 3 Ozeki would be taking a few undeserved Yusho with the likes of Hokutoriki, Asasekiryu, and Toyozakura filling in between. :-/

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Before Asashoryu came to power, people were saying that Sumo needed a true champion. Now that we have one they say he makes Sumo boring by winning all the time.

What's wrong with Sumo? Nothing. What's wrong with Sumo fans? (Nodding yes...)

The biggest problem is that the Japanese know nothing and the gaijin know everything...

Gaijin are so strong...

If this is a joke, its about as bad as I've ever heard, if its not, its probably the most racist.

[Asashosakari 20,220]

But then lets ask this: what would Sumo be WITHOUT Asashoryu?  We'd have the yushos being won with 12-3 or 11-4 records.  The uninspired 3 Ozeki would be taking a few undeserved Yusho with the likes of Hokutoriki, Asasekiryu, and Toyozakura filling in between.  :-/

I disagree that they'd be undeserved, since the yusho winners would be the best rikishi almost by definition, but yes, they probably wouldn't be as good a "best" as Asashoryu is, if that makes any sense. Oh yeah, and some of those 3 uninspired Ozeki would probably be uninspired Yokozuna instead. (Nodding yes...) Or they may not...who knows. Maybe the lack of Yokozuna promotion is the only thing that keeps Taikai from blossoming into a dai-yokozuna. (I know, probably not.)

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.  Before Asashoryu came to power, people were saying that Sumo needed a true champion.  Now that we have one they say he makes Sumo boring by winning all the time.

Agreed. If the 4 tournaments this year had been won by Maegashiras Kotomitsuki, Asasekiryu, Hokutoriki, and Miyabiyama, we'd hear objections from the opposite camp, and that probably can't be avoided.

Anyway, while the ultimate outcome (four yusho by Asashoryu) might have been boring, I don't think the way we got there was boring at all.

Besides, there's a real sea change coming pretty soon now, so one way or another we'll have plenty of reason for excitement in the not-too-far future, I think. While I doubt that all the talented rikishi currently passing through Juryo and lower Maegashira will ultimately become sanyaku mainstays (as somebody mentioned elsewhere, Kokkai might as well be the next Ozeki or the next Chiyotenzan or, to strike some middle ground, the next Kotonowaka), the sheer amount of talent almost guarantees that there'll be at least one break-out superstar among them.

Considering just how many of the current top rikishi are already at 30 years or beyond, I daresay Makuuchi in three years will look a whole lot different from the current rankings. Certainly more different than, say, Nagoya 2001 compared to Nagoya 2004 does.

[hoshidango 0]

Agreed. If the 4 tournaments this year had been won by Maegashiras Kotomitsuki, Asasekiryu, Hokutoriki, and Miyabiyama, we'd hear objections from the opposite camp, and that probably can't be avoided.

Very intersting thought...

  Considering just how many of the current top rikishi are already at 30 years or beyond, I daresay Makuuchi in three years will look a whole lot different from the current rankings. Certainly more different than, say, Nagoya 2001 compared to Nagoya 2004 does.

Most likely. I personally always wanted to wrestlers to last(& believe they could)at least beyond 35. It seems most of them start psyching themselves out of it after hitting 30yrs old..