The Ama train

[kaiguma 0]

yep, I was thinking of the extended bid. I had forgotten about the initial 10/14/10

[HenryK 38]

Ama is going all out in training. He had 38 bouts today against Aminishiki and Asoufuji. 15 with Aminishiki, 23 with Asoufuji. After the moshiai, Isegahama Oyakata demanded some butsugari. This heya has been training the most among heyas. They had only 2 days off- New Years day and the 2nd. At the soken, Ama was the only one to engage one of the Yokozuna (Asashouryuu) in the middle of the battle of the titans. No Ozeki attempted to do that..

He is on an Ozeki run and even Isegahama Oyakata said "The next Ozeki is one of my boys!". Still, it's a tall order/high hurdle/ long shot. He needs 33 wins in three bashos, so he needs 13 this time. But all the latest Ozeki needed 34 wins. Miyabiyama even won 34 and was denied in Nagoya 2005. "I'm not even thinking of a post-Hatsu promotion", said Ama himself. When Miyabiyama attempted his promotion, there were already 5 Ozeki. Maybe this time around if Ama goes all out, he may have a "present" waiting for him.

I don't think they should tighten Ozeki promotion standards any further. 33 it is, and 33 should do. They were pretty rough with Miyabiyama at the time.

This said, 13-2 with both Yokozunas injury free and motivated is a tall order.

Everyone should know by now Miyabiyama was denied with 34 because he ended with a 9. If Ama has 10/10/13, which would likely be JY, Ama would not be denied the rank.

Now do I think it will happen? No, I believe he will extend the Ozeki run to next basho with 11 wins. (In a state of confusion...)

Everybody should, except that he ended with a 10 (10-14-10). The other reason is that there were already 5 Ozeki at the time. I still find Miyabiyama's treatment pretty rough -- he outscored all existing Ozeki except Hakuho also in the final 10er tournament.

Someone else wrote that there are no fixed criteria for Ozeki promotion. I know. But 33 has been established as kind of an inofficial standard, and 33 is already a substantial tightening compared to earlier times. I personally feel that the hurdles for Ozeki promotion are high enough. Ozeki promotion is already the relatively most difficult career step in ozumo -- only one quarter off all Sanyaku rikishis ever make it to Ozeki. It shouldn't be complicated even more.

[HenryK 38]

yep, I was thinking of the extended bid. I had forgotten about the initial 10/14/10

Saw this too late.

[sekihiryu 51]

not about the train but something else......

I was on wikipedia and Ama's page has this

Being relatively lightweight (currently the second lightest wrestler in the makuuchi division), Ama often uses henka (sidestepping) to wrong-foot his opponent.

.....often uses henka??? really is this the same Ama? is some Ama hater vandalizing his wiki? If you guys concur I will change it to......

despite being relatively lightweight (currently the second lightest wrestler in the makuuchi division), Ama rarely uses henka (a style of sidestepping often utilised by lighter rikisihi ) to wrong-foot his opponent,

[messi19 0]

I had seen this about a couple of months ago while browsing the Ama wikipedia entry and it also surprised me a lot. Go ahead and change it.

Edited January 16, 2008 by messi19

[Asashosakari 20,287]

I could be remembering wrong, but I think Ama used to be a bit less hesitant to use henka back when he was still working his way up to the meatgrinder. Could be that the entry is simply outdated in that way.

Or maybe the writer was confusing henka and inashi, who knows. I'd drop the second parenthetical altogether, BTW..."henka" links to its definition, after all. (And besides, it's redundant. "Despite being relatively lightweight ..., Ama rarely uses henka" already implies that lightweight rikishi normally tend to use henka.)

Edited January 16, 2008 by Asashosakari

[sekihiryu 51]

"Ama doesn't henka" is an urban myth.

everyone does except tosanoumi (and thats because his balance is so bad he cant (Laughing...)

Edited January 16, 2008 by sekihiryu

[messi19 0]

Without having thought about it too much I remember two henka Ama did in 2007 (both against Kotooshu in the Hatsu and Natsu basho)..even if it was one more than that I'd still believe "rarely" would be the appropriate term to use.

It is also true that Ama used to henka a lot more when he was moving up the maegashira ranks so it may just be outdated as has been suggested here. All the more reason to change it.

edit: make that three. He also unsuccessfully hanka'd Kotoshogiku in Hatsu if I am not totally mistaken. If we take away Hatsu though only one henka remains over the span of 5 1/4 basho. Unless there have been other ones of course.

Edited January 16, 2008 by messi19

[HenryK 38]

The Ama train...

.... derailed.

[kaiguma 0]

Which is why I think if you are going to say anything at all you would say rarely.

I think it would be better worded to say that he prefers to take his opponents head on, a style usually utilised by much larger wrestlers.

No way. That Ama hasn't existed for well over a year now.

Back up these allegations, kind sir...just look back again to whom he has beaten the last 6 basho and how...inashi yes much, henka very rarely

The Ama train...

.... derailed.

others called this much better than I did (Laughing...)

the poll had most people believing he wouldn't last until day 10 and now I have to concede that it appears that way.

However, we have seen him perform extraordinarily when coming from behind. I believe once going 7-0 to KK from mid-Maega despite an injured foot? Fuzzy memory that, but it sounds right.

Edited January 16, 2008 by kaiguma

[Shomishuu 0]

Ama may not execute a full blown vertical henka but he slides to the side a lot on impact going for the uwate.

The SFM Henka Sightings data backs up this theory. Here are the top ten active henka-makers currently, with an appreciable number of bouts studied (in percentage of their bouts that were voted as henka):

Sorry if the numbers don't line up well...

Rikishi Henka %

1 Roho 13.17

2 Aminishiki 7.11

3 Hakurozan 6.54

4 Hokutoriki 5.73

5 Kotooshu 5.56

6 Yoshikaze 3.87

7 Kotomitsuki 3.56

8 Kaio 3.23

9 Tokitenku 3.11

10 Kyokutenho 3.06

Ama's henka rate is only 2.22%, putting him considerably below the average per bout for all rikishi (2.93%). However, his nomination percentage (percentage of his bouts for which he has been nominated for henka consideration) is 9.78%, which places him fifth among active rikishi. This is almost double the average nomination rate for all rikishi. So this implies that he is often 'creative' with his tachiai, but most viewers wouldn't count these moves as henka.

The link to the SFM henka database can be found in the Kyushu Henka Summary here. (1st page, 3rd column). The columns in the perpetrators and targets worksheets are sortable for anyone who accesses them.

[messi19 0]

Nishinoshima,

You're on to something with your observations - what Ama does at times is take his opponent straight on and then lighting-quick step to the side.. the wikipedia entry though states that Ama often does use henka and that's what sekihiryu was refering to..by the way: even though Ama is a muscled man he doesn't have too many options when it comes to battling the likes of Baruto, Kotooshu, Kotomitsuki, does he?..compared to these he looks about as small-sized as normally-sized people look compared to Ama! Therefore, and due to the fact that Ama is blessed with amazing speed, I don't consider it nearly as much of a shame as the outright henka which we see many other much heavier rikishi doing. Why shouldn't Ama take advantage of his speed the way Kotomitsuki takes advantage of his size when he easily yorikied Ama in last Natsu Basho? When a rikishi executes a pefect henka he robs his opponent of any chance to win the bout (see Asashoryu vs. Chiyotaikai in Haru)..Ama takes advantage of his speed, but the other guy can still very much adapt to these movements most of the time not to mention that through a forceful attack he can deny Ama of effectively using his speed in the first place.

Edited January 18, 2008 by messi19

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

I think a straight on hit at tachiai, followed by a quick shift for an advantageous position would be considered good sumo by most oyakata and coaches. He seems to use forward moving sumo to win the majority of his bouts.

Top Ten Techniques Used By Ama During The Last Six Tournaments in 53 Wins out of 90 bouts

Yorikiri 19

Oshidashi 5

Uwatedashinage 5

Hatakikomi 4

Uwatenage 3

Kubinage 2

Okuridashi 2

Shitatenage 2

Tottari 2

other techniques used:

Hikkake, Kozumatori, Okuritsuriotoshi, Oshitaoshi, Sotogake, Tsukiotoshi, Uchimuso, Watashikomi, Yoritaoshi

http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/eng/ozumo_meikan/rik...ishi.php?A=2308

[Asashosakari 20,287]

I think a straight on hit at tachiai, followed by a quick shift for an advantageous position would be considered good sumo by most oyakata and coaches.

I'd think so. At any rate, I certainly wouldn't call that type of tachiai a henka (and the majority of the Henka Watch voters seem to agree), but a minority of fans pretty much dislikes any sideways movement that isn't at least a couple of seconds removed from the tachiai (and are apt to overuse the "henka" tag as a result), and by that standard Ama definitely isn't a pure straight-on-all-the-time rikishi like Dejima or Tosanoumi, so Nishi has got a point. Tochiazuma used to be criticized by fans for the same thing.

Toyozakura had a strange "forward but sideways" tachiai in his day 5 bout against Ryuo.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Asashosakari

[aderechelsea 125]

my taste of sumo allows sideways movements after the initial tachi-ai impact. If the opponent has basic de-ashi abilities he should have no problems. He just needs to move his feet faster ....

[messi19 0]

Not to mention that Ama doesn't go for a straight-on-first-then-shift-to-the-side type of tachi-ai all that often anyway. Most of the time he just goes all out trying to blow his opponent close to the tawara, obtain a strong grip in the process and finish the job off after that in case the initial hit has not been sufficient.

[aderechelsea 125]

interesting ipponzeoi attempt by Dejima ... (Shaking head...) (Laughing...) (Laughing...)

[sekihiryu 51]

how did I know Nishi would jump on todays bout? ;-) I guess I can see what he means, what Ama did was good sumo in my book, it wasn't a massive leap to the side like a fairy, which irks quite a few people and is what is generally accepted by most a 'henka' and it wasn't a retarded leapfrog in the air.

Ama slipped around the side of a whale a.k.a Dejima and had his number. Good stuff.

If Rikishi know Ama is going to this its their fault for not compensating for this in their plan of attack. Charging ahead blindy like a rhino each time is just silly

[kaiguma 0]

how did I know Nishi would jump on todays bout? (Sign of approval...) I guess I can see what he means, what Ama did was good sumo in my book, it wasn't a massive leap to the side like a fairy, which irks quite a few people and is what is generally accepted by most a 'henka' and it wasn't a retarded leapfrog in the air.

Ama slipped around the side of a whale a.k.a Dejima and had his number. Good stuff.

If Rikishi know Ama is going to this its their fault for not compensating for this in their plan of attack. Charging ahead blindy like a rhino each time is just silly

And how did I know I would be here defending excellent sumo? (Showing respect...)

Okay, go to your tivo, or info-sumo, and watch it again. If you're Tivoing, do it in slomo. You can see the vicious harite better that way. Ama slapped Dejima so hard it looked like a henka. Now, pause at the moment after the harite. Note where Ama's feet are. He has a very wide stance with each foot just outside the line of the shikiri-sen. His body is not exactly square, angled a bit due to leading with the left harite. And so of course the right foot is about a half-step behind. His body is leaning fully into the center and into Dejima's body. Dejima is almost completely out of the center within 1 second of the tachiai. No side-step whatsoever - he simply got womped! It's not even really an inashi. Ama didn't have to move much to get all the way behind Dejima, and he is a pretty big fella. I believe you stand corrected?

Nothing to see here, let's amble over to the Wakanoho page where I'd like to discuss the amount of balls required to do machine gun "reverse-tsuppari" like Hakurozan on Meth, and then act like you got your eye poked out. [Overcompensate much???]

[kaiguma 0]

Great coinage! However, I do not believe he moved with intent to sidestep. Rather, it was an obvious "in the flow of the bout." If Dejima shows you his ass, grab it. I really doubt Ama knew in advance his harite would would derail the train badly enough to allow that maneuver. I'm not exaggerating, he really needed to move only about a foot to the side to end up latched onto the caboose.

[Doyobi 0]

Great coinage!

:) First I wondered why you spelled "koinage" wrong, then tried to figure out which kind of nage is the koi-nage and why the hell I don't remember it.

</off-topic>

Edited January 21, 2008 by Doyobi

[Zentoryu 154]

If Dejima shows you his ass, grab it.

(Sign of approval...)

[Jakusotsu 6,401]

If Dejima shows you his ass, grab it.

Many members of the German forum (mostly female) will certainly agree since Dejima won the "prettiest bum" contest a couple of years ago. (Sign of approval...)

[aderechelsea 125]

i am definitely glad we are missing these polls here :-P

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

I think a straight on hit at tachiai, followed by a quick shift for an advantageous position would be considered good sumo by most oyakata and coaches.

Tochiazuma used to be criticized by fans for the same thing.

No, I'm pretty sure most who criticized him for that wasn't fans :-P