Asa in hot water-thread 2

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Akebono was there as well, and this is what he had to say: "A yokozuna is someone with very powerful emotional strength! He can't be weak like that! Anyhow, I hope he gets over it!", he said.

Was this with or without his soother? (Laughing...)

[Jonosuke 28]

A woman named デビ夫人 (probably some big celeb) said at ex-Kotozakura's funeral : "I don't think he's sick!! He should cut it out!!" she said.

Well I really don't think any sane Japanese will want to go there. Dewi Soekarno (originally Naoko Nemoto) was a former club hostess in Akasaka when she befriended former Indonesian President Sukarno and married to him. She was the third wife of his four wives.

After his downfall in Indonesia, she fled to France and eventually came back to Japan to become a notorious TV tarento, only thing she basically does is to bad mouth just about everyone. She has been sued, had been in vicious vocal fights with such other tarento as Akiko Wada, Kenichi Mikawa and Sachiyo Nomua, an equally vocal wife of manager of Rakuten baseball team.

She is also well known for her lavish lifestyle, which some attributes to her stashing money in a Swiss bank while she was the President's wife. One time she was also accused of using some money raised through her "charity" work.

[paolo 0]

...So, why now, suddenly, has Asa left the house to go for treatment?? Why NOW, a few hours after his attending physician said it is impossible??

Possible answers in my opinion:

1. an undisclosed agreement has already been found with the Kyokai, and Asashoryu has been asked and convinced to give a "sign of good will". Probability: virtually none.

2. some of the people around him have been able eventually to convince him to give a "sign of good will" because they think that it will make the situation more favourable in view of a decision by the Kyokai. Probability: some.

3. he has started to recover and understands it is better for him to get treatment in a more convenient environment. My God, how much would I like it...

After all, this is the first potentially positive piece of news in 22 days. Something has moved ! It is going to be a very long and tough road, though.....

A woman named デビ夫人 (probably some big celeb) said at ex-Kotozakura's funeral : "I don't think he's sick!! He should cut it out!!" she said.

This doctor should be asked to visit Asashoryu immediately and to express her medical opinion. Or isn't

she a doctor ?

Akebono was there as well, and this is what he had to say: "A yokozuna is someone with very powerful emotional strength! He can't be weak like that! Anyhow, I hope he gets over it!", he said.

Very sad to hear such not nice remarks about a collegue...

[Kintamayama 45,548]

Akebono was there as well, and this is what he had to say: "A yokozuna is someone with very powerful emotional strength! He can't be weak like that! Anyhow, I hope he gets over it!", he said.

A different context in a different article-"Whatever situation he is in, I hope he gambarizes. We've all been there.... He couldn't have become a Yokozuna with a weak spirit". This sounds better..

[Kintamayama 45,548]

Very sad to hear such not nice remarks about a collegue...

well . he is not collegue. first of all, he was loser in sumo ring. Thanks to him (his yokozuna reign) , sumo became boring just push-push struggle of some extremely overweight meatballoons.

Don't say that!! There is another translation, perhaps truer!! No meatballoons!! KAWIKA!!

[madorosumaru 7]

Asashoryu left his apartment to go to an undisclosed place where he is going to undergo treatment from Dr. Takagi, the Kyokai-designated psychaitrist.

Takasago Oyakata said, "He left his [apartment] for treatment by a doctor and to change his environment. He will be going through intensive therapy for several days." He added, "The important thing is that he made a step forward toward getting therapy. We have no choice but to leave it up to the doctor. We would like to provide the proper environment for his treatment."

Although it is believed to be a hotel in the city and not the doctor's clinic, the Kyokai did not disclose the precise location, saying, "In Japan, he is a virtual prisoner of the media. We don't think he can get well in an environment that he does not favor."

It may seem that Kitanoumi is wavering but his position has been pretty clear from the outset. He was in favor of letting Ryu go to Mongolia and was prevented only by the resistance of the hardline faction (majority or otherwise) and public sentiment. As mentioned before, he has insisted all along that he would abide by the doctor's orders. In order to convince the opposition, he said the other day that they should try treatment in Japan first and then let the doctor decide on what the best approach would be. By having Asashoryu leave his apartment to see Dr. Takagi, that first step has been taken.

From all recent reports, Oshima and Takadagawa are no longer as "hard-line" as before and are "willing to consider" the Mongolia trip. Having at least tried "intensive treatment" in Japan would clear the last obstacle for getting their approval.

Dr. Yoshida of the Kyokai Medical Clinic stated tht Dr. Takagi still believes that the best thing to do for Asashoryu's treatment is to allow him to return to Mongolia. To that end, the doctor is prepared to accompany the yokozuna to Mongolia to provide the treatment.

I could be wrong, but the likely scenario is for Dr. Takagi to treat Ryu for a short period and then reiterate his recommendation that Ryu be allowed to go to Mongolia. Then from the undisclosed site, the yokozuna would leave for Narita without the horde of reporters all around him.

If Ryu leaves for Mongolia by the weekend, he will have two weeks there before he has to return so that he will be in Japan during the course of the honbasho.

Edited August 22, 2007 by madorosumaru

[Kintamayama 45,548]

To add to Madosan's report, Takasago Oyakata has stated that Asashouryuu will not be returning to his home tonight. "He has decided today to get treatment. If serious treatment won't help, we may have to check the Mongolian option.. This decision will not be mine-it it will be up to the rijikai and the doctor", he said.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Kintamayama

[paolo 0]

Akebono was there as well, and this is what he had to say: "A yokozuna is someone with very powerful emotional strength! He can't be weak like that! Anyhow, I hope he gets over it!", he said.

A different context in a different article-"Whatever situation he is in, I hope he gambarizes. We've all been there.... He couldn't have become a Yokozuna with a weak spirit". This sounds better..

It is simply the other way around... Much much better then ! Thanks for the new translation.

[kaiguma 0]

To add to Madosan's report, Takasago Oyakata has stated that Asashouryuu will not be returning to his home tonight. "He has decided today to get treatment. If serious treatment won't help, we may have to check the Mongolian option.. This decision will not be mine-it it will be up to the rijikai and the doctor", he said.

My take: Asashoryu is already on a plane to Mongolia, wearing a fake beard and sunglasses, looking like Otokonoyama's avatar picture.

The kyokai has already agreed behind closed doors. They are just delaying the announcement long enough to get him out of the country first.

Am I completely certain? - of course not. But I'm not joking either...stranger things have happened.

[Jonosuke 28]

The kyokai has already agreed behind closed doors. They are just delaying the announcement long enough to get him out of the country first.

Actually I think you are not that far off. One conditiion stipulated to his return to Mongolia was to first have a treatment at a medical clinic in Japan. If we can believe what has been reported, at least he fulfilled that by going out and be seen outside.

After a few more sessions, chances are that the medical team "will again" come to a conclusion of sort that he should be best treated in Mongolia and he will be allowed to return.

[Yuriyama Ren 1]

Asashoryu left his apartment to go to an undisclosed place where he is going to undergo treatment from Dr. Takagi, the Kyokai-designated psychaitrist.

Takasago Oyakata said, "He left his [apartment] for treatment by a doctor and to change his environment. He will be going through intensive therapy for several days." He added, "The important thing is that he made a step forward toward getting therapy. We have no choice but to leave it up to the doctor. We would like to provide the proper environment for his treatment."

Although it is believed to be a hotel in the city and not the doctor's clinic, the Kyokai did not disclose the precise location, saying, "In Japan, he is a virtual prisoner of the media. We don't think he can get well in an environment that he does not favor."

How is it possible for Asa to drive away from his home without the media tailing him? Haven't the papparazzi been invented yet in Japan?

[madorosumaru 7]

. . . the likely scenario is for Dr. Takagi to treat Ryu for a short period and then reiterate his recommendation that Ryu be allowed to go to Mongolia. Then, from the undisclosed site, the yokozuna would leave for Narita without the horde of reporters all around him.

Asashoryu left his apartment just before 8 p.m., taking the reporters by surprise. He was unshaven and his mage was in disarray. Dressed in an yukata, he hurriedly boarded a car that was parked by the curb and sped away to the undisclosed site.

His attending physician is going to be Dr. Takagi, who was referred by the Kyokai doctor. On Wednesday, Takasago Oyakata, Dr. Yoshida of the Kyokai Medical Clinic and Asashoryu's manager (on the yokozuna's behalf) signed a document naming Dr. Takagi as Ryu's primary physician. The news report stated that this kind of agreement is out of the ordinary and it places the "decision making" of the treatment in the hands of Dr. Takagi, who has favored a return to Mongolia as the best option for treatment.

Dr. Takagi's position is: "I do not agree with the out-patient plan. Hospitalization is not something that the yokozuna desires and the prognosis is not good for [that option]."

Kitanoumi Rijicho has said, "It will be difficult to let him go straight home to Mongolia. The public would never accept that. We should try out-patient treatment or hospitalization in Japan [first]." According to the news report, Dr. Takagi was outraged by that stance and was prepared to file a protest to the Kyokai.

So, the scenario, as stated before, is to have Asashoryu undergo treatment in Japan first. As Takasago Oyakata said, "If he has therapy and still doesn't show signs of improvement and if the doctor still feels it's better for him to go to Mongolia, I would abide by that recommendation. The decision whether to allow him to return to Mongolia is up to the doctor and the Kyokai board."

The report said there is a good chance that Asashoryu will be back in Mongolia by the end of the week.

The press gathered in front of Asashoryu's apartment.

"Hey, was that the yokozuna that just zipped by . . ."

[Sasanishiki 57]

OK, am I being a bit too smplistic here with my take on the whole issue?

Asa has some pains and niggles and decides it would be best to skip the jungyo and recover in Mongolia.

He goes to Mongolia and gets roped into a charity soccer match for kids.

It doesn't matter what the event is, the fact that he is running around when he is supposed to be injured and has to miss the jungyo pisses everyone off.

He returns/is called back to Japan to sort out the mess but wants to be in Mongolia.

Asa is punished by two basho, a cut in pay and being confined to quarters (remember he wants to be in Mongolia).

He goes into his shell and sulks because he wants to be in Mongolia.

He is holed up at home and lets his mage go awry and just stares into space.

He maintains that he wants to be in Mongolia and this will get him out of his rut.

Everyone he knows turns up to try to get him out of his sulk.

A whole bunch of doctors come up with various names for Asa sulking.

Him sulking becomes a massive fiasco and the media continues to cover it all (as they have since he returned to Japan).

The doctor comes back from holiday and says he should have treatment for his sulking.

The treatment suggested is try clinics in Japan and if that doesn't cure the sulking then Asa can go back to Mongolia.

I'm thinking that Asa will improve in mongolia because that is where he wanted to be all along, and by not being there he has sulked/become depressed/become dissociated or whatever.

[slt 9]

OK, am I being a bit too smplistic here with my take on the whole issue?

Asa has some pains and niggles and decides it would be best to skip the jungyo and recover in Mongolia.

He goes to Mongolia and gets roped into a charity soccer match for kids.

It doesn't matter what the event is, the fact that he is running around when he is supposed to be injured and has to miss the jungyo pisses everyone off.

He returns/is called back to Japan to sort out the mess but wants to be in Mongolia.

Asa is punished by two basho, a cut in pay and being confined to quarters (remember he wants to be in Mongolia).

He goes into his shell and sulks because he wants to be in Mongolia.

He is holed up at home and lets his mage go awry and just stares into space.

He maintains that he wants to be in Mongolia and this will get him out of his rut.

Everyone he knows turns up to try to get him out of his sulk.

A whole bunch of doctors come up with various names for Asa sulking.

Him sulking becomes a massive fiasco and the media continues to cover it all (as they have since he returned to Japan).

The doctor comes back from holiday and says he should have treatment for his sulking.

The treatment suggested is try clinics in Japan and if that doesn't cure the sulking then Asa can go back to Mongolia.

I'm thinking that Asa will improve in mongolia because that is where he wanted to be all along, and by not being there he has sulked/become depressed/become dissociated or whatever.

Sums it up pretty well - but even if he "improves" (decides to stop sulking), it'll take a few steps before he can be seen as credible two basho from now. Seems difficult, right now, to imagine his next yusho interview... Will he come back and say "I was depressed and, after psychological treatment, I'm better again, so please try to forget not only that I played hooky instead of fulfilling my duties, but also that I acted like a spoiled child / had a mental episode..." The point is, he's bound to be interviewed about all this at some point, when/if he returns to Japan. What will he say to save face ?

[Jonosuke 28]

Japanese reporters are everywhere where Asashoryu is likely to be around. They already know which hotel he is staying. Some are trying to be a few steps ahead of him, camping at the counters of Mongolian Airline in Narita.

Today they even saw a large sized man coming over to the counter. They all descended upon him and realized he was former Kyokushuzan who said more or less, "Life won't be that easy for the yokozuna as there are different opinions in Mongolia as well."

Apprently Kyokushuzan is preparing to run for an office in Mongolia and is preparing for the election but our Mongolian members should know better than Japanese press.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Jonosuke

[madorosumaru 7]

Another Wild Dragon Chase!

There is so much misinformation, if not outright disinformation, tossed about in this sad case that the poor reporters are all over the place. On Wednesday, in response to a rumor that Asashoryu may be taking off to Mongolia on the MIAT flight, a group of reporters staked out the airport terminal.

As departure time approached, there was no sign of the yokozuna. Just as the media boys and girls were about to give up, a large man wearing a white polo shirt and a hat over his eyes sauntered up to the gate. As the excited group of reporters rushed towards him, the man casually doffed his hat and revealed himself as none other than our favorite Mongolian ex-sekitori, Kyokushuzan.

"I don't think it's going to be today," he said knowingly(?). "Don't be so hung up on Mongolia. It's one thing if it's for [treatment of] his injuries. There ain't any doctors in Mongolia who can cure problems with the head."

Shu is a busy man these days. He arrived in Japan on Monday and is returning to Ulaanbaatar today (Wednesday). On Thursday, he will fly to Singapore. Before he boarded the plane, he had some final words: "Hey, they held a nice dampatsushiki for me. It was nice that I was able to make a clean break and retire properly . . ." Ouch, I think there was a bit of dig there for his erstwhile antagonist.

Shoe-on with shoe off and mouth open.

[Kintamayama 45,548]

"He went straight to sleep. He was not interviewed (medically). I can't say he is any better", said Dr. Yoshida after hearing from Dr. Takagi regarding Asashouryuu's state today. Asa is at a local hotel. The plan is to continue treatment today. "I think he has been given sleeping pills and tranquilizers. I heard the Yokozuna said things like 'I'm scared' ", added Dr. Yoshida.

Takasago Oyakata: "I have no contact with him".

[kaiguma 0]

Another Wild Dragon Chase!

There is so much misinformation, if not outright disinformation, tossed about in this sad case that the poor reporters are all over the place. On Wednesday, in response to a rumor that Asashoryu may be taking off to Mongolia on the MIAT flight, a group of reporters staked out the airport terminal.

(Blushing...)

Whoops! there I go again, starting wild rumors . . .

:-P

[Kintamayama 45,548]

"Hello? Hello? Bad connection again, I guess.."- Takasago admits he has not heard from his disciple, as he goes out for his day job at the local fire brigade:

[Jonosuke 28]

Actually it may not be a bad idea to have a cell phone umbrella with all those rain in Japan in June.

Anyway the oyakata looks like the one suffering DID.

Asashoryu looked pretty brazen when walking out of the apartment, not looking like someone who hardly ate any food in 20 days or just staring at TV all day...

But then again he hardly showed any physical signs of injury when he played that soccer game.

I am not insinuating anything here, just my impression. But I can see why some people wonder.

[Kintamayama 45,548]

Asashoryu looked pretty brazen when walking out of the apartment, not looking like someone who hardly ate any food in 20 days or just staring at TV all day...

But then again he hardly showed any physical signs of injury when he played that soccer game.

I am not insinuating anything here, just my impression. But I can see why some people wonder.

Yuukan Fuji is insinuating just that in a longish article today, based on observations by some other psychiatrists. The gist is that someone suffering from DID would not be able to get into a car alone, let alone walk upright and look forward, and all kinds of other "proof" that Asa might be faking it..

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20070823-00000008-ykf-spo

Edited August 23, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

Yuukan Fuji is insinuating just that in a longish article today, based on observations by some other psychiatrists. The gist is that someone suffering from DID would not be able to get into a car alone, let alone walk upright and look forward, and all kinds of other "proof" that Asa might be faking it..

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20070823-00000008-ykf-spo

just another proof that Asa should not stay in Japan for his recovery physically & psychologically.

Good to hear these stubborn grandpas start giving up.

"It's important for him to change the air," Kitanoumi said on Thursday. "I'll follow the orders of the doctor."

http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/sports/news/...0sp012000c.html

Japan way is weird. Back and forth, half yes and half no, so many IFs - ALL ABOUT SAVING FACE of all those whoever involved.

But in their double face, they sure did not bother about saving face of The Yokozuna

Edited August 23, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Jonosuke 28]

Thanks, Moti.

I just read the article and I know why they are called s!!tdisturber for nothing. They basically only report one sided view and make up a story line only to fit in their angle.

I've actually seen these two so-called psychiatrists on Japanese TV several times. Basically they are mostly TV tarent as well. They are basically what I call sex doctors, commenting on possible sexual motives of some murderers or something. I believe one of them even has a string of books like how to please a woman and enjoy your sex ten times or more.

I guess with a foreskin surgeon on board already, Yukan Fuji knows who to contact.

I am not saying Asashoryu is faking anything but I think all his diagnosis are more or less orchestrated events and as long as he is not in a reputable hospital getting a full detailed examination, his diagnosis cannot be certain.

The only good thing is that he is going back home sooon.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Jonosuke

[Hananotaka 8]

I just read the article and I know why they are called s!!tdisturber for nothing. They basically only report one sided view and make up a story line only to fit in their angle.

Yes, they even have a picture of Asashoryu walking around boldly. Only, it was taken in Narita when he returned from Mongolia.

I am not saying Asashoryu is faking anything but I think all his diagnosis are more or less orchestrated events and as long as he is not in a reputable hospital getting a full detailed examination, his diagnosis cannot be certain.

The only good thing is that he is going back home sooon.

I don't think Asashoryu is "faking" anything. I do believe he is acting apathetic and morose, that he's upset and depressed. That's not dissociative disorder, but then, Asashoryu didn't diagnose himself.

But in their double face, they sure did not bother about saving face of The Yokozuna

They can't do much to save it. Apparently he left it on the pitch in Mongolia.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

As a foreigner in Japan, it is hard not to have at least a little sympathy for Asashoryu. Though he, as do many of us, brings about many of his own troubles, he is a stranger in a strange land. He has been a workhorse for many a year, assimilated and adapted as best he can, yet will never be fully accepted no matter what he does or says. Not much of any excuse, as he knew it would be an uphill battle from the day he set foot on the sacred soil, but who among us really knows what they are getting into when they arrive? Sure, we all have some knowledge, and perhaps advice, but what can we do with it until we've lived it for ourselves? Absolutely, the yokozuna messed up, and he may be playing a high-stakes game of chicken with the NSK. Still, he is human, and one with a predominantly Mongolian viewpoint. As someone eloquently wrote earlier, no matter the result it's a lose/lose situation. Kitanofuji understood what needed to be done naturally way back when, as a native Japanese caught in a scandal. He did it automatically and no-one analyzed his motives. Asashoryu has never, and will never be free of the second-guessing that comes with his foreignness.