sekihiryu 51 Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) I hate the format and I hate the atmosphere (I am not worthy...) quoted from the SML, pretty harsh words from the cranky old luddite. While we are on the the word "hate" - I hate her dull boring commentary on NHK English broadcast. I sometimes feel there is certain snobbery at times held by some of the gaijin elders of Sumo, its pretty disappointing. I enjoy reading her contributions to KTO magazine in Japan and her few and far betweens offerings on the the SML but I feel its a real shame Doreens vast sumo knowledge wasnt possesed by someone more generous and affable like our own Jonosuke. What a waste. I "love" the Sumo forum and I "love" the format and as far as the atmosphere goes it mostly very good and while we have some clowns alright, we also have the ability to block them. I will be contributing here long after other sumo "fans" are gone. Edited January 21, 2007 by sekihiryu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,222 Posted January 21, 2007 I'm willing to bet the sum total of Doreen's experiences with the forum doesn't exceed 30 minutes of time spent. And that's all I'm going to say about that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iwagakki 0 Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) I hate the format and I hate the atmosphere (I am not worthy...) quoted from the SML, pretty harsh words from the cranky old luddite. While we are on the the word "hate" - I hate her dull boring commentary on NHK English broadcast. I sometimes feel there is certain snobbery at times held by some of the gaijin elders of Sumo, its pretty disappointing. I enjoy reading her contributions to KTO magazine in Japan and her few and far betweens offerings on the the SML but I feel its a real shame Doreens vast sumo knowledge wasnt possesed by someone more generous and affable like our own Jonosuke. What a waste. I "love" the Sumo forum and I "love" the format and as far as the atmosphere goes it mostly very good and while we have some clowns alright, we also have the ability to block them. I will be contributing here long after other sumo "fans" are gone. To each, his/her own, I suppose. I like sumoforum. I like that we have disagreements, and the we are all allowed our opinions, even if they are against the majority. Doreen is entitled to think as little, or as much, of me as she wants, right? It's all ok. I enjoy that our little sumoforum is a conversation that has lasted us several years, and it isn't just a one sided thing. Maybe it isn't all polite, and gentle, all the time, but that's ok by me. If it doesn't suit Doreen, then that's cool too. Her disapproval of our brand of enthusiasm toward sumo doesn't detract from my enjoyment in the least. In fact, it validates sumoforum if you ask me, that we are even worth mentioning. Anyway, don't go down that path...you don't need to respond in kind. Even if her commentary is not so great, you're better off without joining the hate fest. Edited January 21, 2007 by Iwagakki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 210 Posted January 21, 2007 Doreen seems to be quite proud person with her 4 jobs and always claims to be in a great hurry despite long past intai age but I always find it strange when a senior citizen uses the word "hate" like that. Then again isn't it so that hating God is not so bad since that means it has significance to the hater but being ignorant is the worst as that means total negligence so maybe Doreen's hatred towards our forum is a sign that she is somehow aware of sumoforum's growing role in the sumo community and feels anxious about not hopping in like Hopp did with youth and vigour. Oh well, life is life. Speaking of ML members who dislike forum or just don't come here, I read Klemmer's post of which I understood very little. Copy pasteing it here so that someone could explain what on earth is he talking about. I am seriously interested to know and seriously worried that I just don't have a clue what is he talking about. Klemmer 4 days ago: I would love to use the forum but it's just not possible. I can just deal with the liner aspects of mailing lists. Threaded lists and the even more complex forum threading is something I can't manage. Back in the day it wasn't a problem. If you think my post ratio is high now you should have seen me in my prime. I could outpost anyone yet still keep from dominating the list. (Most of the time) But now, it's just not feasible for me. I truly with there was a two-way gateway for lists and forums. I know of a very nice asynchronous service that only goes list -> forum. It's been a while, though, so maybe they have something that's synchronous now. If I can find the frelling link, that is. It seems I have some 5000+ links in my bookmarks.html file. And 98% of them I never use. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fujisan 533 Posted January 21, 2007 I personally dont understand the fascination with SML,I never go there at all. Mind you that could be why its so popular :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,222 Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) Isn't taking me long to violate my "that's all I'm going to say" pledge... Now this is just speculation, and apologies to Doreen if I am wrong but I get the feeling that it must be hard for her after so many decades of being one of the very few English voices on sumo, and someone who was consulted by almost every new devotee or interviewed by countless media outlets, to suddenly have this source of sumo where real time and historical information is available to a far greater degree of detail than one person can provide. Perhaps she feels that us young turks who weren't even born when she was talking to an up-and-coming Kitanofuji haven't earned our stripes. Plus the thoughts of people who have never been to Japan telling someone who has lived in Ryogoku for 26 years about sumo must be galling. I guess too there is the matter of new technology and the net etc (but if you can use the ML...). I believe there's probably some truth to that. From time to time, I find myself browsing through the old SML archives. There are lots of interesting posts by Doreen (and Masumi Abe, to name another high-quantity/quality SML voice from years past) in there. But the one thing that strikes me is that, while their information probably had near-revelatory qualities due to the generally low level of publicly available sumo information back then, much of it is either common knowledge or at least well-documented nowadays (Makushita tsukedashi rules, how to become an oyakata, inner workings of the Kyokai administration, the YDC, the nature of keiko etc.) Also, perhaps it's just my limited exposure to the NHK broadcasts, but I don't think she's as much of a history buff as Jonosuke and madorosumaru. She does know a lot, but it mostly seems to cover the period of time that she herself has spent in Japan (since the late 60s or so?), i.e. personal observation rather than "book knowledge". That's valuable in its own right, but it doesn't seem that there's much inquiry into that type of knowledge - certainly not on the SML, which (aside from a few left-over old voices like Moti and Jejima) is a lot more newbie-ish today than it was when I signed up to it 4 1/2 years ago, and even back then the list was already in decline from its late 1990s heyday. I'm somewhat torn on whether I'd want Doreen as a member here...on the one hand her attitude toward the forum tends to rub me the wrong way quite often, and I think that maybe she's content just to talk sumo within Japan with her circle of old acquaintances so let's just let her be, but on the other hand I wonder if she wouldn't feel a bit re-energized by the different perspectives on the forum if she allowed herself to engage them. I'm quite sure the people here would provide her with a lot more food for thought than the anemic SML does. Edited January 21, 2007 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 125 Posted January 21, 2007 there is no better way today to gather information and enjoy Sumo than this : www.sumoforum.net anyone who cannot realise that or doesn't admit it is living on memories of glorious past. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoseiya Yuichi 3 Posted January 21, 2007 cranky old luddite You can nowadays insult people here? Without moderation intervening for almost 20 hours? Great, I have few insults in mind, mostly to do with fat Samoans and people with lousy taste in football clubs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 47,175 Posted January 21, 2007 cranky old luddite You can nowadays insult people here? Without moderation intervening for almost 20 hours? Great, I have few insults in mind, mostly to do with fat Samoans and people with lousy taste in football clubs. I think very few of us understand what that is.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 47,175 Posted January 21, 2007 I missed this thread for some reason, but I'd like to say Doreen is a wonderful woman with a wealth of sumo knowledge and well respected by the rikishi and kankeisha, as far as I could see.. It is a pity she doesn't give the forum a chance, but that's that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilovesumo 12 Posted January 23, 2007 All I can say about that is, that Doreen is a lovely person with more knowledge then almost everybody here. Sre many people are understanding the whole thing wrong. I do understand if somebody isn't happy about the "atmosphere" here cause sometimes some people freak out...just remember the Musashimaru thread. I am happy being able to say that I know her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otokonoyama 2,735 Posted January 23, 2007 I refer you to the 'atmosphere' of threads Ms. Simmons participated in the month of September 2001. She always comes across as somewhat cranky and pedantic, but she really took the cake that month (Laughing...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amanogawa 79 Posted January 23, 2007 Doreen has already made a great sumo public figure, so I understand we can all discuss her professional work or commentary however and to whatever degree. But sometimes I don't know how "public" she actually is in whatever regard whenever she was commenting something, if favorable to us or not... And maybe this is another sick Japanese-pacifism of my mind (Sign of approval...), but I feel a bit uncomfortable when people would start talking about someone who I know is lovely in person, especially when the someone doesn't/can't/ seem to be there to confront the issue.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
