Ama's acne

[Itchygao 0]

I hope Ama will consider using some of that money for acne treatment someday...it is getting worse every basho.

Does anyone else ever wonder if it is partially caused by sterioid use?

I like Ama, and have absolutely no information to accuse him. But one would assume his income would allow

treatment. Standard acne would respond positively to the constant showering, washing the Rikishi must do

many tiimes a day after practices, the cleansing of the pores all his sweating must do, etc. As you noted,

it seems to be getting WORSE instead of better.

[Guest Buyouzan]

I hope Ama will consider using some of that money for acne treatment someday...it is getting worse every basho.

Does anyone else ever wonder if it is partially caused by sterioid use?

I like Ama, and have absolutely no information to accuse him. But one would assume his income would allow treatment. Standard acne would respond positively to the constant showering, washing the Rikishi must do many tiimes a day after practices, the cleansing of the pores all his sweating must do, etc. As you noted, it seems to be getting WORSE instead of better.

I think acne from steroids are commonly seen on the back. In that regard, it seems like Ama is clean, but you never know. Check this out:

http://www.steroidinformation.com/sideeffects.htm

[Zentoryu 154]

If you guys want to talk about Ama's skin problems, please do so in another thread. I'd prefer to keep this thread on topic.

Edited March 20, 2006 by Zentoryu

[Coo-cook 0]

Does anyone else ever wonder if it is partially caused by sterioid use?

I like Ama, and have absolutely no information to accuse him. But one would assume his income would allow treatment. Standard acne would respond positively to the constant showering, washing the Rikishi must do many tiimes a day after practices, the cleansing of the pores all his sweating must do, etc. As you noted, it seems to be getting WORSE instead of better.

Ama's father had same "acne" problem and his facial skin looks as same as the Hispanic Hollywood acter (I forgot his name) ...So, it's more a genetic thing I guess.

Sorry, Zentoryu...I couldn't resist (since the topic was already here).

Edited March 20, 2006 by Coo-cook

[Manekineko 200]

Split on Zentoryu's more or less request - and an interesting chatting topic anyway. ;-)

[Guest Buyouzan]

Split on Zentoryu's more or less request - and an interesting chatting topic anyway. (Gyoji...)

Speaking of steroids and acne, since one of the common side effects of anabolic steroids is acne in the back, shoulder and chest area, it's very difficult for sumo wrestlers to hide them, as their upper body is exposed. I have read previous threads on steroids where it seemed as though many members of this forum believed that steroids were prevalent in the sumo world. But I have yet to see on any rikishi with those typical side effects of back acne that they say would come with the use of steroids. Perhaps, either my observations are wrong, there aren't many steroids users in the sumo world, or somebody developed a masking agent to inhibit the outbreak of back acne.

[Odoriou 0]

... it's very difficult for sumo wrestlers to hide them, as their upper body is exposed. ... or somebody developed a masking agent to inhibit the outbreak of back acne.

Hmmm... I wonder what your favourite rikishi ( (Gyoji...) ? ) is trying to hide under his fur... (On the banzuke...)

[Flying_Monkey 0]

BTW, it it a myth that the kind of acne that you can see on Ama has anything to do with cleanliness, not washing etc. It is a hormonal / genetic condition, and while it is primarily found teenagers and those still growing, and women going through pregnancy / change of life, it can affect people of all ages...

[Tatsuma Keiru 0]

Does anyone else ever wonder if it is partially caused by sterioid use?

I like Ama, and have absolutely no information to accuse him. But one would assume his income would allow treatment. Standard acne would respond positively to the constant showering, washing the Rikishi must do many tiimes a day after practices, the cleansing of the pores all his sweating must do, etc. As you noted, it seems to be getting WORSE instead of better.

Ama's father had same "acne" problem and his facial skin looks as same as the Hispanic Hollywood acter (I forgot his name) ...So, it's more a genetic thing I guess.

Sorry, Zentoryu...I couldn't resist (since the topic was already here).

Are you thinking of the Knife man from the first desperado? His name is Danny Trejo.

Here's a slightly photoshoped pic maybe (can't see the potmarks very well)...

I think probably even with treatment it won't completely go away,

but at least he could get it down to a "makes me look cool" level, like this guy.

Edited March 21, 2006 by Tatsuma Keiru

[Coo-cook 0]

Are you thinking of the Knife man from the first desperado? His name is Danny Trejo.

Thanks, Tatsuma. No..I was thinking of other Hispanic guy who has cheeks like a "bee wax".

Dammit. I can't remember his name. Anyway, I think forum members have an idea what I'm talking about.

(Ama's father Mr.Davaanyam has same skin condition as Danny Trejo.That's it. (Gyoji...)

Edited March 22, 2006 by Coo-cook

[Zentoryu 154]

Thanks, Tatsuma. No..I was thinking of other Hispanic guy who has cheeks like a "bee wax".

Dammit. I can't remember his name. Anyway, I think forum members have an idea what I'm talking about.

Edward James Olmos of Miami Vice and currently of Battlestar Galactica fame?

[sekihiryu 51]

Are you thinking of the Knife man from the first desperado? His name is Danny Trejo.

Here's a slightly photoshoped pic maybe (can't see the potmarks very well)...

I think probably even with treatment it won't completely go away,

but at least he could get it down to a "makes me look cool" level, like this guy.

Danny Trejo is cool, been in so many movies as the quintessential badass Mexican, he is perfect for that role.

Skin in pretty rough but not so bad.

If Ama is on the juice then it aint working for him! The dude has what looks to be a clear cut case of bad acne and as Coo-cook pointed out: a hereditary case at that.

As long as the NSK are going to turn a blind eye to the topic and not test anyone, then people are forever going to speculate about it. Cheating is cheating and it sure to raise rampant speculation.

This topic will never die.

[Coo-cook 0]

Edward James Olmos of Miami Vice and currently of Battlestar Galactica fame?

You got it.

[roydrager 0]

Can anybody tell me what exact kind of acne Ama has? It looks much more serious than normal acne. According to what I've read, roid acne is smaller and not as deep. Here's a picture of roid acne:

(http://dermis.multimedica.de/dermisroot/en/36595/image.htm)

I had deep cystic acne on my back since I was 14, my back is all scarred up. It looked much worse than that.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 210]

Well acne can be mild too even in heavy steroid use and deep cystic acne is already a bad state. Rikishi do have acne to significant degree but TV doesn't always show those well. My guess would be that Ama's acne is a combination of genetical factors and hormone use. Why wouldn't he use? He always says he needs size..then again it can be well be that growth hormone is even more prevalent in sumo than anabolic steroids as such. Besides roids and stuff are painkillers, fastens recovery to significant career and enables the muscles to grow with less rest needed. Quite a huge advantage in sumo. Old topic yes but always interesting...

[Coo-cook 0]

Before, I used to think steroids very rare in Oozumou, however mu current belief based on my experiences is that almost all Sekitori use steroids, the majority of Makushita Rikishi, and many even below. Mongolians particularly have a reputation for using steroids, being encouraged to since the early stages of their carrers by their Seniors - this common belief could be in part based on jealousy of Japanese Rikishi, due to the prowess of many Mongolians...

Oh please,....I can't believe it. Are you saying all the 17-20 year olds start using steroids to become a good sekitori?

Not the Japanese rikishis, maybe you are a bit jealous.

You say " my experiences"...why don't you say "I've seen with my eyes" and a name few rikishis.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 210]

It is just that unless Kyokai has been quite secluded from outside world in terms of strength sport culture etc. it is very likely that rikishi of the 1960s and 70s were using a lot too since that was the first golden era of all sorts of steroids and it was for a long time in the gray zone or simply not forbidden. Even Arnold the Hero admitted that he used a lot of steroids until they were banned (and then he stopped? well...). So when you think about oyakata of now, many of them were active in the 1970s so they should not be strangers to these substances and if they were using, I find it hard to believe they would scold their own rikishi for using roids to get stronger. If there has been a silent culture of heavy use, then it is very logical that the custom of roid usage just continues from generation to generation, with better substances and "scientific" approach perhaps. I don't claim to know anything about the inside world of oozumo but maybe oyakata simply don't want their deshi to use openly and prefer to not be exposed to it. Of course if the oyakata themselves lived an era of "clean" oozumo, this reasoning becomes less obvious of course and then strict banning could be possible.

Sometimes people tend to belittle someone's achievements because "he took the easy way with steroids". This is a lot of bullshit. There are no top athletes in the world that got there because of steroids only or had it easy in any way. Biggest attributes are talent and hard work. Good example is Hakuho. His natural body structure is lean. He was a muscular guy but lean and probably has quite light bone structure. To pack up over 70kg to such frame is unnatural in every sense considering his genes. No doubt IMO that he has used a lot of whatever enhancers but he has also worked very hard and is extremely talented. Hakuho wouldn't be 11-0 in Haru 2006 without steroids but certainly wouldn't be there without his talent and hard work either no matter what he used. And besides one can never forget the main advantage of steroid use: faster recovery. Very essential in sumo style keiko where the same muscles are hit again and again with major stress.

[Coo-cook 0]

I have no reason to bring down Mongolians, in fact I'm good friends with many of them in Oozumou and I like them

Yeah, right. Suddenly, there are two Mongolians in front and you can't resist to bring up your steroid theory.

And, you just got an "official approval" from our own forum doctor Kaikitsune and... in addition, you are an all knowing big sumo specialist ...how confortable and trustworthy. Just a perfect sell.

Edited March 22, 2006 by Coo-cook

[Kintamayama 47,222]

I have no reason to bring down Mongolians, in fact I'm good friends with many of them in Oozumou and I like them

Yeah, right. Suddenly, there are two Mongolians in front and you can't resist to bring up your steroid theory.

And, you just got an "official approval" from our own forum doctor Kaikitsune and... in addition, you are an all knowing big sumo specialist ...how confortable and trustworthy. Just a perfect sell.

There is real talk about steroid use in the Sumo World regardless of origin. I can't stand to think of this, and have had many a heated argument with rijicho. This isn't a Mongolian thing, and I highly doubt Shiroikuma is "jealous" of the 2 Mongolians leading.

Of course, I would love to hear some juicy, concrete gossip with names etc.., but I doubt we'll hear such stuff.

[Sasanishiki 57]

I have no reason to bring down Mongolians, in fact I'm good friends with many of them in Oozumou and I like them

Yeah, right. Suddenly, there are two Mongolians in front and you can't resist to bring up your steroid theory.

And, you just got an "official approval" from our own forum doctor Kaikitsune and... in addition, you are an all knowing big sumo specialist ...how confortable and trustworthy. Just a perfect sell.

I think this is a bit of an over-reaction. By the logic of having Mongolians in front we are not allowed to talk about steroids? The thread began as a query about Ama and the potential that his acne might cause steroids. Ama is Mongolian, true, but the same discussion would have taken place if it had been Baruto, Tochiazuma, Kasugao or whoever.

ShiroiKuma then went on to talk about the rumours within ozumo that are possibly perpetuated by Japanese rikishi about the Mongolians. He suggests that these exist because of jealousies about the success of the Mongolian rikishi. However, you should also note that he says he knows personally many rikishi are using steroids. Mnay rikishi does not mean just the Mongolians, or just the foreigners or whatever. I would read from that phrase that there are Japanese rikishi within that group as well. He is not pointing the finger at one group but making a general statement. He has also mentioned that the Japanese rikishi (most likely) spread rumours about the Mongolians. The two are statements and he connects them to show why the image might be that Mongolians use 'roids. He is not explicitly saying that only Mongolians use until later when he responds to Nishi about having talked to someone who shot a Mongolian with steroids. Even this is not indicative of any bias, only an indication of the information he has.

Now, on a related note...stop the bickering about how superior we all are with our inside knowledge or how agrieved we are due to national pride! Get back to the discussion in a reasoned tone please. :-S This is actually an interesting topic and I'm enjoying the medical explanations and the possibility of some gossip and intrigue (You are going off-topic...)

[Asashosakari 20,243]

The thread began as a query about Ama and the potential that his acne might cause steroids.

Now that's a medical condition I'd like to hear more about. (You are going off-topic...)

[Coo-cook 0]

Even this is not indicative of any bias, only an indication of the information he has.

Yes, ShiroiKuma says he has some information from "others". But, the following statements by him made me doubt his he has any information at all.

Generally though, if you ask most Rikishi, the common belief is Mongolians take steroids from early on

It seems ShiroiKuma did go around asking most rikishi, whether Mongolians use steroids...and they said yes.

Before, I used to think steroids very rare in Oozumou, however mu current belief based on my experiences is that almost all Sekitori use steroids, the majority of Makushita Rikishi, and many even below.

Kyokai bans steroids....and almost all sekitori use it. Wow. (Anarchy is mother of orders)

Well...I'm done with it.

Edited March 22, 2006 by Coo-cook

[Coo-cook 0]

Ha-ha. Sure, you wanna beat me up. Sumouduo-dude.

[roydrager 0]

Here is one Japanese organization's attitude about steroid testing. The testing issue comes up in Pride fighting which has many fighters who are obviously juiced. An American interviewer grilled Sakakibara-san, the director of Pride. about it last year:

--------------------------------

Sakakibara: We are not opposing American regulations and requirements of steroid testing. But in Japan there's no such thing. We are not required to test steroids for any fighter or any sports whatsoever. So we don't need, so we don't do. If we come to the U.S. and of course we have to follow their rules and regulations. If we have to do, we have to do.....You have a good point, but maybe if you look over all the sportsman, not just the fighter - baseball player or gymnastics or anything - any kind of sportsman don't use steroids in Japan in general. But in the U.S. the Major League players or runners or boxers - they all use steroids. That's why there has to be some regulations. That's totally different culture and background.

Interviewer: I understand that in the Japanese culture, steroids are not a prevalent issue. My concern is the good majority of your fighters are international fighters. I'm looking at the poster for PRIDE "Final Conflict": three Brazilians, a Dutchman and two Europeans. Not one Japanese fighter on there. So just because no one is telling you to test for steroids, it's the same way that no one is telling you to test for cocaine or no one is telling you to test for anything else.

Kanda: Cocaine is illegal in Japan.

Interviewer: OK, so steroids are not illegal in Japan and that is why you do not test.

Yamamoto: It's a prescription drug. So if you try to use the steroids without prescription it's illegal.

Sakakibara: This is just like other drugs. Like, for instance, ulcer medicine is prescription drugs. And if someone uses without prescription it's illegal. So it's' the same thing for the Japanese people.

[Itchygao 0]

The thread began as a query about Ama and the potential that his acne might be caused by steroids.

FWIW, since I asked the question originally, I will clarify. At the time of asking it did not even occur to me that Ama was Mongolian, or anything else other than a good Rikishi. The wife & I had both noticed his acne appeared to be getting worse instead of better. Perhaps there are some close up photos of him say now, a year ago, 18 months ago, someone would be kind enough to post here in the thread so we could see if our initial premise is correct?

I had bad skin as a teenager & was on oral medication for it as well as special soap, lotions, etc. My skin dried out with treatment & the acne cleared up. My dermatologist told me that "teenage acne" like I had was caused by the body producing excess oils due to hormone imbalances, etc. common during adolescence. It occured to me Ama's skin really does not look like it is extremely oily. If it is not excess oils, etc. causing it then there must be an alternate cause like ...? Over the years I'm sure acne treatments have improved, and Ama's income ought to allow him that luxury. But I do not know enough to know if common acne treatments would work on acne caused by steroids ?

Rikishi may wear makeup for TV for all I know & that would explain why his skin does not have that oily "shine" all my photos have during junoir high school & high school. He may be oily enough off camera to be asked to join OPEC, but he did Not look that way in Las Vegas last October. Nor did his acne appear so severe then, at least as we recall. We sat on the East aisle, so we had a pretty good view. But I wasn't looking at him at the time thinking he was a steriod abuser. Heck, I was like a kid in a candy store!

I guess it is all the publicity surrounding their use that makes me ask about someone who has complexion problems and is showing more muscle definition. It was not my intent to start any sort of argument of anyone's nationality , nor to get anyone angry. And I sincerely apologize to the nice lady whose thread got trampled. Had I known the question would generate so much response, I would have gladly asked elsewhere.

Edited March 23, 2006 by Itchygao