Natsu Basho might be cancelled

[Peterao 3]

Chairman Ito of the special committee investigating the yaocho allegations was quoted tonight as saying "The investigation will take one to two months at the minimum. It's very possible that it may require three to four months."

As it is hard to imagine a basho going on with yaocho investigations still ongoing, this raises the likelihood that the basho in May is also in jeopardy.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Peterao

[Haruibono 11]

Now the kyokai is really going over the top.

[Peterao 3]

Now the kyokai is really going over the top.

Actually, the special committe is a panel of outsiders. The Kyokai appointed them, but they have no control over the actual investigation.

[Chankosan 0]

What is the significance of the cancellation of the jungyo for August 8 in Akita? Does that mean all the scheduled jungyo prior to that one will be held? I am coming to see jungyo at Yasukuni on April 8, but I can't imagine that will still be held if the Natsu Basho is cancelled? And what about the YDC soken at the end of April? Dang!

[Orion 431]

What is the significance of the cancellation of the jungyo for August 8 in Akita? Does that mean all the scheduled jungyo prior to that one will be held? I am coming to see jungyo at Yasukuni on April 8, but I can't imagine that will still be held if the Natsu Basho is cancelled? And what about the YDC soken at the end of April? Dang!

Yasukuni is not a jungyo (which is a for-profit tour organized with local interests). The Yasukuni is honozumo, literally offering sumo, an offering to the gods (or in this case to the spirits of the war dead) and whether it happens this year is up to (1) the priests in charge of Yasukuni and (2) the powerful organization of the war dead and their many supporters among politicians, especially the out-of-power LDP.

Orion

[Kotoviki 16]

What is the significance of the cancellation of the jungyo for August 8 in Akita? Does that mean all the scheduled jungyo prior to that one will be held? I am coming to see jungyo at Yasukuni on April 8, but I can't imagine that will still be held if the Natsu Basho is cancelled? And what about the YDC soken at the end of April? Dang!

I think we all have to just wait!!! When there are no sponsors or the organizers don't think they can get fans to come they will cancel the jungyo immediately while they haven't invested too much in them.

I would say that IF the May basho is cancelled that the public YDC soken will be made un-public.

However I think that if things are scheduled to go for May that the YDC soken will be held as a public event as they need to bring the fans back before May!!

As for Yasukuni, Doreen already mentioned that. That too I believe will be a wait and see situation.

If two basho are cancelled I might as well move back to the USA, the only thing keeping me in Japan is Sumo... and World Rally car racing... seeing as how Japan has most likely held it's last WRC event last year the only thing left for me is Sumo...

[Peterao 3]

As was posted in another topic, all Jungyo for 2011 have been cancelled.

Would they do this if they thought that the bashos would be restarted any time this year??

[Kintamayama 45,542]

As was posted in another topic, all Jungyo for 2011 have been cancelled.

Would they do this if they thought that the bashos would be restarted any time this year??

Yes they would. They canceled some jungyos last year because of the gambling and held all bashos as usual. I don't think July will be canceled, because that would result in the total financial collapse of the Kyokai. I'm not 100% convinced May will be canceled-I think it's the usual knee-jerk hysterical first reaction. The outsider committee will find a way for them to hold the May tournament, I'm thinking.

[Peterao 3]

As was posted in another topic, all Jungyo for 2011 have been cancelled.

Would they do this if they thought that the bashos would be restarted any time this year??

Yes they would. They canceled some jungyos last year because of the gambling and held all bashos as usual.

Did the Kyokai cancel those jungyo last year? I was under the impression that those decisions were made by the individual jungyo organizers.

[Kintamayama 45,542]

As was posted in another topic, all Jungyo for 2011 have been cancelled.

Would they do this if they thought that the bashos would be restarted any time this year??

Yes they would. They canceled some jungyos last year because of the gambling and held all bashos as usual.

Did the Kyokai cancel those jungyo last year? I was under the impression that those decisions were made by the individual jungyo organizers.

Yes, they were canceled by the individual organizers. It doesn't change the fact that they have nothing to do with honbasho. Do you (EVEN you) really believe the Kyokai can withstand cancelling all honbashos this year? That they are even contemplating it?Really? Not trolly, but really?

[Peterao 3]

As was posted in another topic, all Jungyo for 2011 have been cancelled.

Would they do this if they thought that the bashos would be restarted any time this year??

Yes they would. They canceled some jungyos last year because of the gambling and held all bashos as usual.

Did the Kyokai cancel those jungyo last year? I was under the impression that those decisions were made by the individual jungyo organizers.

Yes, they were canceled by the individual organizers. It doesn't change the fact that they have nothing to do with honbasho. Do you (EVEN you) really believe the Kyokai can withstand cancelling all honbashos this year? That they are even contemplating it?Really? Not trolly, but really?

Do they have a choice? I don't think so, but it really depends on how the next few months play out.

What I think needs to happen for sumo to return relatively quickly:

1. Offer a brief amnesty period: give people a one week period where they can admit to yaocho in exchange for accepting their intai paperwork.

2. After that, bring the hammer down: demand that all active rikishi and oyakata hand over their cell phones, bank account records, and personal e-mail accounts to a independent third party, on the condition that they will only report on evidence of yaocho, and will respect their privacy in any other case. And hand out kaiko punishment to all that refuse to cooperate.

3. Anybody found to have engaged in yaocho based on above evidence automatically receives jomei punishment.

4. After that, warn every remaining person that all of their bouts will be scrutinized for evidence of yaocho, and that a total of three matches that look even the slightest bit questionable will result in expulsion.

Without that, I really don't see how anybody but the diehards and gaijin will ever return to Ozumo.

[Kintamayama 45,542]

Do they have a choice? I don't think so, but it really depends on how the next few months play out.

What I think needs to happen for sumo to return relatively quickly:

1. Offer a brief amnesty period: give people a one week period where they can admit to yaocho in exchange for accepting their intai paperwork.

2. After that, bring the hammer down: demand that all active rikishi and oyakata hand over their cell phones, bank account records, and personal e-mail accounts to a independent third party, on the condition that they will only report on evidence of yaocho, and will respect their privacy in any other case. And hand out kaiko punishment to all that refuse to cooperate.

3. Anybody found to have engaged in yaocho based on above evidence automatically receives jomei punishment.

4. After that, warn every remaining person that all of their bouts will be scrutinized for evidence of yaocho, and that a total of three matches that look even the slightest bit questionable will result in expulsion.

Without that, I really don't see how anybody but the diehards and gaijin will ever return to Ozumo.

Very harsh. Very, very harsh. But what is this? Am I inclined to agree with you? Can this be happening? Dangnab it, I agree with every word, but sadly, also understand they will never go this far. Send them a copy-maybe someone will suddenly see the light.

[Fay 1,677]

Do they have a choice? I don't think so, but it really depends on how the next few months play out.

What I think needs to happen for sumo to return relatively quickly:

1. Offer a brief amnesty period: give people a one week period where they can admit to yaocho in exchange for accepting their intai paperwork.

2. After that, bring the hammer down: demand that all active rikishi and oyakata hand over their cell phones, bank account records, and personal e-mail accounts to a independent third party, on the condition that they will only report on evidence of yaocho, and will respect their privacy in any other case. And hand out kaiko punishment to all that refuse to cooperate.

3. Anybody found to have engaged in yaocho based on above evidence automatically receives jomei punishment.

4. After that, warn every remaining person that all of their bouts will be scrutinized for evidence of yaocho, and that a total of three matches that look even the slightest bit questionable will result in expulsion.

Without that, I really don't see how anybody but the diehards and gaijin will ever return to Ozumo.

agree with every word

[Raishu 208]

Mehhhh. (Cold...) This whole affair is so frustrating.

Last year, I started to save some money with the intention to either:

a) make a short trip to Tokyo in May and attending a honbasho for the very first time.

or

b) (being an avid biathlon fan from a very young age) attend one of the non-European events in the US and support my long-time favorite Kaisa (M

Edited February 6, 2011 by Raishu

[Peterao 3]

This is a no-brainer. You have a choice between a sure thing and something that is very unsure and unstable. Take the sure thing!

[Raishu 208]

This is a no-brainer. You have a choice between a sure thing and something that is very unsure and unstable. Take the sure thing!

Unfortunately I don't have a choice between a) and b) anymore (that bout fixing scandal came at the worst possible moment)

b) is running ATM, so I'll have to go with either Natsu basho or a filled bank account. And spending money is more fun than sitting on it.

Otherwise it would be a no-brainer, that's true.

[Peterao 3]

Well, we are in unchartered territory here, so I'm not sure what to say. It's the same as if you were to ask me if I thought it would be a good idea to visit the pyramids in Egypt in two months time...

If you think that you could also enjoy three weeks in Tokyo without sumo, then you could probably make the trip without regret. If the sumo is the only thing that interests you, then I guess you'd just have to wait as long as you possibly can and see how it plays out.

[Fukurou 534]

What I think needs to happen for sumo to return relatively quickly:

1. Offer a brief amnesty period: give people a one week period where they can admit to yaocho in exchange for accepting their intai paperwork.

2. After that, bring the hammer down: demand that all active rikishi and oyakata hand over their cell phones, bank account records, and personal e-mail accounts to a independent third party, on the condition that they will only report on evidence of yaocho, and will respect their privacy in any other case. And hand out kaiko punishment to all that refuse to cooperate.

I think item #2 is probably illegal on the part of the NSK, without the Japanese equivalent of a search warrant. I realize warrants aren't that difficult to get, but they still have to be served by the police, and, as we've been told over the past few days, match fixing isn't illegal. On legal grounds, I don't know how the NSK got away with making the suspect rikishi turn over their records the other day.

3. Anybody found to have engaged in yaocho based on above evidence automatically receives jomei punishment.

4. After that, warn every remaining person that all of their bouts will be scrutinized for evidence of yaocho, and that a total of three matches that look even the slightest bit questionable will result in expulsion.

My opinion - they won't do it, and they won't do anything close to it. If they go through with this, between the ones who quit and the ones who they decide did yaocho (whether or not they actually did - this would be a perfect time to engage in a little "pay back"), it's possible that the ones left would mainly be from the current Sandanme, Jonidan, and Jonokuchi ranks. And then there will be others who are toughing it out, because they are athletes and nothing bad could ever happen to them (the thinking of the young and stupid)

And if they ever do end up resorting to item #4, well, that'll be seen as another sign that they weren't serious about getting rid of yaocho, and another nail into the coffin.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Fukurou

[ilovesumo 12]

What is the significance of the cancellation of the jungyo for August 8 in Akita? Does that mean all the scheduled jungyo prior to that one will be held? I am coming to see jungyo at Yasukuni on April 8, but I can't imagine that will still be held if the Natsu Basho is cancelled? And what about the YDC soken at the end of April? Dang!

Yasukuni is not a jungyo (which is a for-profit tour organized with local interests). The Yasukuni is honozumo, literally offering sumo, an offering to the gods (or in this case to the spirits of the war dead) and whether it happens this year is up to (1) the priests in charge of Yasukuni and (2) the powerful organization of the war dead and their many supporters among politicians, especially the out-of-power LDP.

Orion

Chanko might have the same problem like ilovesumo, sitting in Osaka for no reason...

Maybe the Onryou-gami would be even more angry if it happens....

Probably traditionalists will fight for it and make it happen.

[Asashosakari 19,682]

On legal grounds, I don't know how the NSK got away with making the suspect rikishi turn over their records the other day.

It wasn't the NSK, it was the independent investigation committee, and I specifically wrote that they "requested" access to the data.

[Fukurou 534]

On legal grounds, I don't know how the NSK got away with making the suspect rikishi turn over their records the other day.

It wasn't the NSK, it was the independent investigation committee, and I specifically wrote that they "requested" access to the data.

Semantics, because the committee members were appointed (hand-picked?) by the Kyokai's directors. Sorry NSK - if you wanted your "independent investigation committee" to actually appear to be independent, you should have had somebody else (the Ministry?) set it up and appoint the members without any of your input.

As for "requested," perhaps "requested with a gun to their head" might be a more accurate description. What would have happened if any rikishi told this "independent" committee to go pound sand?

Edited February 6, 2011 by Fukurou

[Asashosakari 19,682]

Semantics, because the committee members were hand-picked by the Kyokai's directors.

The point is that the committee is not operating at the direction of the directorate whatsoever and Ito is pretty much saying that the members aren't concerned with what problems their investigations might cause as the directors are desperately trying to get sumo back into quieter waters.

Sorry NSK - if you wanted your "independent investigation committee" to actually appear to be independent, you should have had somebody else (the Ministry?) set it up and appoint the members without any of your input.

Sorry, but LOL. If there's one body who can be trusted to do a worse job in setting up a credible investigation than the rijikai, it's MEXT. They're bureaucrats with the primary objective of covering their own asses. (I'd love for the press to start wondering where the ministerial supervision has actually been for the last 20 years...not gonna happen though.)

As for "requested," perhaps "requested with a gun to their head" might be a more accurate description. What would have happened if any rikishi told this "independent" committee to go pound sand?

I actually haven't seen any reports that all rikishi have signed off on having their phone records released, only their checkbooks have been mentioned, plus those scattered reports that some rikishi were already finding excuses for not handing over their cellphones as Kinta mentioned.

What's with the scare quotes around "independent" in this context, anyway? The situation for the rikishi would be exactly the same if the members had been chosen some other way - the minimum for non-cooperation would very likely be an "intai advice" under all circumstances. Somehow your objections are all over the place here - do you think the rikishi will have it too easy or too hard with the committee as presently constituted? I honestly can't tell, all I can tell is your usual anti-authority reflex in action.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Asashosakari

[Fukurou 534]

Semantics, because the committee members were hand-picked by the Kyokai's directors.

The point is that the committee is not operating at the direction of the directorate whatsoever and Ito is pretty much saying that the members aren't concerned with what problems their investigations might cause as the directors are desperately trying to get sumo back into quieter waters.

The key point is that they were picked by the directorate, whatever Ito says. The NSK Directors picked the people who would be investigating the NSK. Do you honestly believe that there is absolutely no chance that not a single one of the committee members was selected because they might be willing to do a favor or two for the NSK? Because the selection of the committee smells of another attempt at cover-up and business as usual to me.

Sorry NSK - if you wanted your "independent investigation committee" to actually appear to be independent, you should have had somebody else (the Ministry?) set it up and appoint the members without any of your input.

Sorry, but LOL. If there's one body who can be trusted to do a worse job in setting up a credible investigation than the rijikai, it's MEXT. They're bureaucrats with the primary objective of covering their own asses. (I'd love for the press to start wondering where the ministerial supervision has actually been for the last 20 years...not gonna happen though.)

Which, as I'm sure you realized at the time, is why "Ministry" has a question mark behind it. However, I don't care how many hands they need to use to find their own backsides, having them (having anyone else) pick the ones doing the investigation is still IMO better than letting the Kyokai Directors do it.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Verena, You're coming to Tokyo anyway, not only to Osaka, right?

There is a midnight bus you can take which is less than 4,000 yen or something, Megu told me about it.

Why don't you come directly to Tokyo after you get to Osaka by the midnight bus, they you could be in Ryogoku where you feel at home rather than sitting in Osaka for no reason!! (In jonokuchi...)

On the other hand I've done sightseeing around Osaka a dozen times long before I was interested in Sumo. There is a lot to do if you aren't depressed about the sumo!!! Good Luck!

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[Kotoviki 16]

Verena, You're coming to Tokyo anyway, not only to Osaka, right?

There is a midnight bus you can take which is less than 4,000 yen or something, Megu told me about it.

Why don't you come directly to Tokyo after you get to Osaka by the midnight bus, they you could be in Ryogoku where you feel at home rather than sitting in Osaka for no reason!! :-)

On the other hand I've done sightseeing around Osaka a dozen times long before I was interested in Sumo. There is a lot to do if you aren't depressed about the sumo!!! Good Luck!

Moderator Notice

Please consider using the forum PM function for off-topic conversation and personal appointment making.

sorry, I didn't mean to make a mistake, just replying to her complaint of sitting in Osaka with nothing to do since the basho is cancelled! Sorry